Learning French in England

[Hoddy]

Someone on another thread assumed that it was easy to find French classes in England. This is only true up to a point. As a retired second home owner who only spends summers in France I try to find a class each winter.

This is fine if you’re beginner who wants qualifications. For someone like me they really don’t suit and I find a difficult to find a class at an appropriate level.

Has anyone else had a similar problem ? Have you solved it ?

Hoddy

[Panda]

I would also be interested in answers to this as I want to carry on with my french and my sons. Anyone got any ideas?

[Kevinmc]

Google "french conversation groups", contact local higher education/universities for conversational groupsi

[Martin963]

If you've already got a reasonable grounding then I'd also investigate French TV in Britain.

It's not technically difficult to get the basic channels,  although you would of course need a sat dish.

My wife spent some time claiming she had forgotten all her schooldays French,  but found herself watching "Les Feux de l'Amour" after the TF1 lunchtime bulletins ten years ago.   Whilst a truly lamentable example of daytime USA TV,  this programmes (dubbed very expertly into French,  and subtitled) unlocked a lot of hidden vocab,  and the slow pace and constant phrase repetition was enough to get her going again in French.

We find a daily dose of the news a useful update on what's going on in France,  as well as a language refresher,   and a source of meteorological inspiration when it's pouring with rain in Devon.

If it's of interest and you need technical advice then a quick post in the sat section of this forum will illicit lots of help.

[Mme poivre]

This year we have been to classes at our local further education college that were for conversation french only no qualifications, and a Belgian/French teacher who was excellent, there was a mixture of people at different levels of learing, we all had great fun and are booking for the course next year, one thing that has changed is that we will have to take a small qualification, but if we do this we get the course for a lot less money.

The other thing is that there are a number of people who work at the same place as me who speak french and we are thinking about getting together at the pub every so often for a french speaking get together.

 

 

[chrisb]

You might find that there is a Cercle Francais group in your area. Try asking at the local library.

[NormanH]

'Conversation'  classes with no basis in formal grammar are useless.

You can't just 'pick up ' a language..it needs hard systematic learning of things like irregular verb forms until they become automatic.

for example (in Devon)

http://www.allianceexeter.co.uk/

or extramural classes at your local University..

or evening classes

Today I witnessed with amusement an aged English couple struggle to understand the menu in a local restaurant.

The chef brought out examples of the herbs he used, and the woman sniffed them and said 'Rosemary' Thyme'   etc to her husband..

They thought they were 'integrated' or 'commicating' but as the waitress said to me after 'quelle conne celle - là'!

Please avoid adding to these embarrasing scenes of people who should have bought in Spain..

[krusty]

My you have got it on you Norman , is it that time of the month ?

[Mme poivre]

sorry Norman keep your hat on, different things work for different people

Our 'Conversation classes' were based around what we wanted/needed to learn, yes we did do grammar, in fact we covered anything that was needed, I could give you all the books that were recommend to us to help with our gammar as well.

We had at least 40 mins of just talking in frech about everything and anything, reporting to each other different things, all of us even stood infront of everyone else a delivered a presentation in French, and no not all of as can speak very good french but thanks to these classes our confidence and vocabulary has developed.

[YCCMB]

Horses for courses, Norman.

I teach French adult education classes at our local college. I'm the only non-native speaker. Students are usually divided into groups by ability, and will, in a full course, be taken through a syllabus which includes grammar, vocabulary, functions etc. There are 4 or 5 levels, from beginner to a high-level conversation class for those who have already achieved reasonable fluency. I have to say, Hoddy, that it doesn't surprise me that classes are getting harder to find, because colleges aren't subsidised any longer for most of these courses, prices can be relatively high (although still good value, but then I would say that!) and in the last academic year since Sept '08, people are reluctant to spend money on such things, thus many courses aren't being run due to lack of students (in our college, there needs to be around 10-12 students enrolled for a class to be viable)

However, just as an example, I'm teaching a short course at the moment which is billed as "Get by in French" and largely aimed at people who would like to be able to do basic things such as shopping, eating in restaurants, finding places etc.

I have a small group of students; two mum-and daughter couples, one of whom is preparing for a wedding in France, one couple with a French second home, one single guy who likes visiting Paris and a single lady who has always wanted to learn French.

Although they all knew what the course was for, they have a wide variation of experience and ability. However, they all have in common the desire to learn and to be able to use basic French.

They ALL welcome and need the interaction, mutual encouragement and support they get from classes, and even the lady who came on her own (and was going to stop after two weeks because she found everything so difficult) is slowly beginning to gain confidence and make progress, spurred on by the others in the class.

Should I tell her she's completely wasting her time, or would you like to? Because for me, she's making the first tentative steps towards being able to communicate in another language, and although in 10 weeks she may still not be able to use the imperfect or conjugate etre, she's going to be a lot further towards her goal than she would have been sitting at home.

[Scooby]

We tried the 'conversational French classes' at a local night school and found them to be an unmitigated disaster. Firstly there is the issue that colleges tend to fund only those courses that are working towards an academic qualification so the first hurdle is to find a 'vocational' course that a) is running and b) will survive more than the first few weeks.  Having passed this hurdle, there is such a huge mix of abilities on the local college courses (many extremely basic) that we decided we should have been paid as teaching staff instead of enrolling as students.

We had the gentleman (who had already walked out of the previous year's course) walking out again....because 'we were doing phrases and he needed to learn words first'.  The blonde, bimbo girlfriend of the (more fluent...and elderly) sales rep who had bought a second home in France repeating 'Bonjour' for the umpteenth time trying to get a half decent pronunciation.  We were asked to repeat our responses ('for the benefit of the group') and used as examples so many times we felt we should have been on the payroll.  After a few weeks we gave up.

We eventually settled on a private tutor - more expensive (at £20 per hour) but a hell of a lot more useful.

[Hoddy]

NormanH perhaps I didn't explain hust how difficult I have found it to find a class at my level. I do go to classes which are below my ability just so that I can speak French at least once a week. I am now the proud possessor of a GCSE, two NVQs which I did after it, and something called an ASSET. I am not seeking qualifications although I will do them just to keep doing some French. None of the five local authorities to which I have acces seem to provide them.

Thanks for the idea of the Cercle Francais and the university extra-mural ideas I shall pursue them when I get home.

Thanks for your time everyone.

Hoddy

[YCCMB]

In large part I agree scooby, and understand your frustration, although it sounds as though the college you attended was doing what a lot of colleges end up doing (something with which I fundamentally disagree) which is to run classes of mixed abilities rather than run no classes at all. Adult Education isn't funded at all outside of a few key areas (usually vocational courses, adult numeracy and literacy and ESOL) and although it's a cheaper option than private 1:1 lessons, it becomes a waste of money when you're lumped in one class with people of mixed abilities: something, I'm pleased to say, that our college tries to avoid, even at the expense of not running classes rather than trying to bung everyone in one group, which is impossible both for the teacher and the students.

Funny, though....it's amazing how many people wanting to learn French baulk at paying £20 an hour for private tuition, whilst I'm having to turn away work from people wanting to learn English, who are happy to pay.

[Hoddy]

Actually Betty I've been wondering about finding a group of friends to join togthr and pay a willing tutor. I met a woman at the last  who said she'd fall off her her perch if she had to 'at the restaurant' or 'at the railway station' one more time. We swapped email addresses with a view to informing each other of possible classes - I'll put the idea of a private tutor to her

Hoddy

[YCCMB]

I think it's an excellent idea, Hoddy...as long as you have a group of friends who are of a similar level, and with similar objectives. I taught two ladies (one of whom I still teach, now) who came to me in the same way, after I'd taught them together in an evening class run by a private language school. They were both working at the same sort of level and both French homeowners who wanted to improve their French for everyday use on their visits to France, and I taught them together for several years until one of them moved permanently. I still teach the other one.

[Scooby]

I do (did - our french teacher stopped our lessons due to the serious illness of his daughter) French lessons with another person.  Makes it more fun and less expensive - provided, as Betty said, you are at a similar level.

Unfortunately, due to lack of lessons / time I feel I am going backwards atm not forwards [:(]

[Mme poivre]

Good eveing all

I know its different for each person, but you are all knocking getting quilifications, I am dong my GCSE this year because i need to learn More French, it has made me more disciplined in learning gramma and lots of new words, I am more confident in reading french and have goal posts to keep me going.  Going to the french coverstaion class has givien me the opportunity to use this new vocab in a safe ish supportive environment.  I still have to work on my writing and spelling in french but that is the next task.  

The main thing however, is that I really want to learn to talk to people and be understood and I am really enjoying learning the language.  [:D]

[YCCMB]

Where did I "knock" getting qualifications?[8-)]

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

It's been about 5 years since I last had contact with UK foreign language teaching in the public sector, so things may have changed. At that time in Cheltenham there were a number of French courses available at different levels and prices were not out of reach of anyone who can afford to spend significant time in France.

Further back my wife was head of languages at several adult education centres in Kent. She was always trying to keep classes reasonably homogeneous for learning level -- they ran from total beginner to AS-level equivalent -- but because classes of less than 10 students were considered non-viable the tutors tended to grab any available students, regardless of their relative ability. This obviously led to frustration and drop-outs.

Mrs IG now teaches English to French people in a local association and French to Brits, freelance, in central Brittany. The Brits are prepared to pay €10 per lesson for small groups. She finds it amazing how many of them have hardly any grasp of French even after living here for a few years

The bottom line is, as always, money. If you can put together a group

of people at roughly the same level and find a decent teacher then

you'll have a recipe for success. The trouble is that it gets harder to

do this at higher levels because fewer people want to study once they

get past the basics. Of my wife's 20-odd British students only about 3 can be described as reasonably fluent.

On the qualification front, when she was still teaching in AE she found that quite often the more advanced groups welcomed being offered the option of doing a qualification (RSA, GCSE, AS) because it gave them goal to work towards.

[Mme poivre]

sorry YCCMB

Ishould have said qualifications are being knocked, not that everyone is knocking  them

I think NH has been rubbing off on me sorry

Or i could be that i am spening my holiday writing student reports [:(]

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]

Further back my wife was head of languages at several adult education centres in Kent. She was always trying to keep classes reasonably homogeneous for learning level -- they ran from total beginner to AS-level equivalent -- but because classes of less than 10 students were considered non-viable the tutors tended to grab any available students, regardless of their relative ability. This obviously led to frustration and drop-outs.

[/quote]

I'm curious as to how the tutors had the autonomy to do this. In my college, tutors assist with assessments at enrolment to ascertain students' levels, but have no autonomy to "grab any available students" and thus no responsibility for the "mix" of levels served up to them as a supposedly same-level class. That's certainly true for MFL. ESOL is a whole different can of worms, because colleges WANT as many classes as possible to run, as they receive Govt subsidies for "bums on seats", so as teachers we're often told "this term you'll be teaching a mixed-level group".

[Scooby]

Neither of us wanted to do any formal qualifications - we have both undertaken many years of full time study / exams for our respective careers and have no desire whatsoever to collect another piece of paper.  Nevertheless, our tutor gave us 'homework'.  Our tutor had previously taught at both degree and A level so our lessons were very structured and utilised material from these courses.  Without the 'homework' we would have progressed much more slowly.  He did tell us that few number of his students insisted on doing the set piece of work at the following lesson - which wasted much of the valuable lesson time - so these students soon fell behind the others.

My biggest problem now is that I can read and write French reasonably well but I don't have the opportunity to speak / listen to the language.  We have TV5 at home but that's not the same as conversation.  We are second home owners but due to demanding jobs we only visit our home in France occasionally - OH won't get out to France at all this year.

[Hoddy]

I'm certainly not knocking qualifications. How could I after a lifetime of helping people to get them ? I just don't want to do the same courses at roughly the same level each year. You might be amused that a while back when I was invited to  a reunion of some of my former pupils one of them said to me, "Miss, can you remember telling me I'd get nowhere without qualifications ? Well, you were right. I haven't."

Hoddy

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]
Further back my wife was head of languages at several adult education centres in Kent. She was always trying to keep classes reasonably homogeneous for learning level -- they ran from total beginner to AS-level equivalent -- but because classes of less than 10 students were considered non-viable the tutors tended to grab any available students, regardless of their relative ability. This obviously led to frustration and drop-outs.

[/quote]

I'm curious as to how the tutors had the autonomy to do this. In my college, tutors assist with assessments at enrolment to ascertain students' levels, but have no autonomy to "grab any available students" and thus no responsibility for the "mix" of levels served up to them as a supposedly same-level class. That's certainly true for MFL. ESOL is a whole different can of worms, because colleges WANT as many classes as possible to run, as they receive Govt subsidies for "bums on seats", so as teachers we're often told "this term you'll be teaching a mixed-level group".
[/quote]

I can remember  being in an advanced French class (well before Mrs IG was involved in AE) and witnessing people enrolling late. They would turn up at the college reception and be taken to whatever class was running at the time. The tutor would then convince them that they would soon catch up and should join their class. In some cases they were people who could hardly string a sentence together coming into a class studying for the Institute of Linguists exams.

As AE is/was even more poorly funded than FE my wife had the equivalent of a 0.2 FTE post as far as her management responsibilities were concerned. At enrollment she was heavily dependent on the tutors because her centres ran courses across about 6 languages and at multiple levels for the more popular ones. Consequently tutors helping at enrolment had a fair degree of influence on the new students.

Going back to the original posting, people studying French have generally got it relatively easy. Where there is provision at all, there are usually more classes at different levels available than for any other language. Try finding something reasonably advanced for Italian, for example.

[YCCMB]

If anyone's interested, another way of learning, which is free (or cheap, if you take out the subscription to get more flexibility) is to join  http://www.mylanguageexchange.com/

It does mean that, in return for the possibility of getting help with your French from a native speaker (free, either by e-mail, IM or Skype) you will have to help them with their English.

I've used it and found it helpful. You can fix a regular time, and if you can find someone prepared to be as disciplined as you, it can be just like going to a "regular" French lesson.