Tony F Dordogne Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 3 years ago this evening we had some friends round for drinks, accompanied by a family that were staying with them at the time. About 10pm, they decided who was going to drive and despite protestations from J and I, they left by car - the walk would have been about 20 mins - tho none were fit to drive at all. Within three-quarters of an hour I was at the scene of a single car accident in which the driver had hit one tree, bounced into another and four of the 8 people in the car were dead. I had to identify the bodies at the side of the road and then deal with the fall-out of what had happened for months afterwards. The driver was breathalized and was over the limit and has been charged with various counts of manslaughter because he had kids in the boot of the car, no seat belts, too fast etc etc.For a number of reasons, the Court case has been delayed and he is still waiting to go to Court, combination of defence stalling and French inertia, additionally the Inquest in the UK has also been delayed by the same combination of things. We're now told that the case has a provisional slate for November and the Inquest is likely to be just before the Court case.Leaving aside all the other circumstances, I'm still horrified at how much people drink in France, including other friends, when they know they're going to drive. It's really quite a concern to me now - I don't drink at all now, or if I ever do, it's at home and only one small glass, combination of the accident and health reasons.I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here but the distance from our home to the other people's home was under a kilometer. If you don't want to deal with the appalling consequences as we had to - and still have to - please folks, don't drink and drive, I promise you, if it goes wrong, it can go horribly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I would have thought driving in France was the appropriate place, nevertheless, perhaps Tony there is also another message here and that is don't overload your car and never carry more people than it was designed for. This may have been a drink induced idea but nevertheless stupid even if sober. Cramming people into the back and even the boot as this bloke did, affects the control of the car particularly the steering and can easily lead to loss of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I remember you writing about this just after it happened, Tony.That is a really shocking example of what drink can do, and overloading the car, as Ron says.When a person has had a few drinks he/ she thinks he's omnipotent, won't listen to good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Problem was Ron, it wasn't drink induced, it had been happening for the duration of the other family's visit but yes, you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 A horrible experience for you Tony and a sobering tale, literally.Unfortunately ones options for preventing someone doing what they have set their mind on are limited however, that said, and with apologies if this soundsharsh, I'm astonished that you couldn't have found some way to stop this idiot from driving off as he did, kids in the boot for God's sake! I'm pretty sure I would have - whatever it took, especially so with kids involved.You said "we had some friends round for drinks" so presumably it was you who plied them with the drink, or at best colluded in the act of them getting drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 it is exactly the same in Switzerland- and the police just do not want to know- because all the Fetes for societies, charities, villages - horse events, agricultural fairs, rural and mountains cafés, and so on - would stop being profitable.Some Brits here would say they run away from UK because of too many rules, etc - I do wonder how they would feel if that had to experience what you went through, or if any of their loved ones were killed by drink-drivers.When I was 16 (many moons ago) I regularly drove friends back from gigs and parties and I wasn't totally p......ed. The first time it happened I had never driven before! I shudder to think.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 No Ernie, I offered them drinks, I don't ply people with drink, nor do I collude in getting them drunk, I expect adults to act responsibly especially where drinking and driving is concerned. Prior to offering any drinks I had been assured that they had sorted out who the designated driver was, which proved not to be true. It's far to complex to give all the details but I did whatever I could to get the keys off the guy short of punching him out but to no effect whatsoever. He was 'only' about twice the limit when he was breathalized so drunk driving may be a loose term, he was clearly over the limit which, as you know, is lower than that of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Sorry, double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 You made it sound worse Tony so apologies again if I was harsh.Seems like the guy was just an irresponsible idiot then and deserves whatever punishment he gets. I hope you give damning evidence against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 np Ernie, tho for sure, it couldn't have been much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I'm really sorry about that terrible story, Tony, but I am surprised you think French people drink a lot more than British people .This has nothing to do with being patriotic , but I think just the opposite, I'm always amazed at the quantity of beer and spirits English people can drink in an evening.On French TV , they keep saying the French drink less and less, restaurant owners complain about not selling much wine any longer , or apéritifs.. When there are gatherings,people or friends say " no, thanks, I m driving", so your observation surprised me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 [quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]np Ernie, tho for sure, it couldn't have been much worse.[/quote]I meant worse in the sense of amount consumed, you did say "tho none were fit to drive at all", not in outcome which is beyond question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Without knowing the full details it is difficult to comment Ernie, except to say that in most circumstances, the driver is already suffering a life sentence of guilt (I hope). A long custodial sentence in these circumstances may be right, but also possibly results in more emotional damage for all those related to the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Tony, hindsight is great. I can't imagine what emotions you have been through. I know plenty of people who have left parties we have held or attended. I can only think of two occasions when I have insisted on taxis, and on both occasions they were more than twice the limit in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 One of the really sad things about this terrible story is that they felt they had to bring their car at all for such a short distance (under a km = half a mile). If only they had walked it wouldn't have mattered (within limits) how much any of them had drunk.So sorry you're still being haunted by this, Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Being invited to a persons house does not mean you have to drink booze. I drink Coke or other soft drinks. Nobody has ever forced booze down my neck and I don't know of any person who has.Normally if you have friends round for a drink and they come by car you expect one of them to drink and the other to behave responsibly by either having a glass or drinking soft drinks. You also don't know if they have booked either a friend or taxi to take them home. Its complex in as much as there are quite a few alternatives. If you know that somebody is going to drive and you know they have drunk more than they should what do you do, phone the police, hit them with a base ball bat and take their keys? Its great to say things afterwards especially if you were not there.In Tonies defence, in case anyone is thinking that in some minor way he aided and abetted the situation by not doing something I would ask that faced with exactly the same situation what would you do, how far would you go, serious answers only please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Honest, I wouldn't have done anything differently from Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 And the fact is that Tony is not on trial, the driver is. What a god damn awful mess the whole thing is. I DO think that in these circumstances, 3 years is a disgustingly long time to bring it to trial. It has no regard for the suffering and emotions of all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfrog Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 the driver may be on trial now - but unfortunately there have been cases in France where the host has been prosecuted for letting people leave by car when over the limit.Even more alarming, is that apparently under French law if you organise a meeting (which may be just a dinner-party amongst friends) you are legally responsible for your invités from when they leave home to when they get back home afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I thought that was only true for bar owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfrog Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 not just bar owners - some guy in Paris was prosecuted after he hosted a dinner-party. Made legal history but somewhat worrying all the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 [quote user="hoverfrog"]the driver may be on trial now - but unfortunately there have been cases in France where the host has been prosecuted for letting people leave by car when over the limit. Even more alarming, is that apparently under French law if you organise a meeting (which may be just a dinner-party amongst friends) you are legally responsible for your invités from when they leave home to when they get back home afterwards.[/quote]Is there a decret for this please?What guidelines do they give on dealing with such a situation (like how do you stop then from driving - don't say take the keys away as life is never that simple) there must be some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 It seems that not all in France know these rules or if they do they dont follow them as a family member of mine at a social event when declining a drink from the Maire on the grounds he had brought his car ..was told " How do you think the rest of us got here " he went on to say "If you drive in the ditch we have tractors we will pull you out " ... I have been to horse sales and with craft stalls and others in places where its not possible to attend without a car....wine being downed all day...no sign of the police . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The police are certainly getting active around here. I've been stopped twice recently for a 'controle alcoolemie' - the first time was in our village square on a Saturday teatime and the second was last Friday on the way through our local town at 1.30pm. On that occasion, they were out in force with around a dozen officers stopping every vehicle.I'm thinking of asking my local gendarmerie for a carte de fidelité so I can collect bonus points...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Mr Clair was stopped on his way back from work at 4 am last week... Not the first time either.No alcootest though, probably because they couldn't smell alcohol on his breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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