French moving to the UK

[Richard51]

http://www.french-property.com/news/french_life/french_living_abroad/

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

If that's true, then healthcare should be still free to all those who come into France.

Greedy Sarko.

[Sunday Driver]

"The census showed that around 60% of the French in the UK lived within Greater London, with the majority aged between 25 and 40 years, confirming the generally held view that most French are in the UK to work, not to retire!"

If the majority of these French workers are paying for their healthcare through their UK income tax, why should healthcare be free to all those who come to France?

Sarko is only following the same healthcare rules as every other mainland EU country so why does that make him greedy?

 

[Will]

Quite right SD, but why let facts get in the way of a good moan?

If there is any lesson for Sarko here it should concern the difference in employment law and culture between the two countries, and costs and bureaucracy involved in the world of work. 

[KathyF]

My DiL told me recently that in her 6 year-old's school class in North Oxford the largest number of non-British children are French. [:D] I've certainly heard parents speaking French at the school gates when taking or collecting our grandson. And the last time I had my hair done in Oxford the hairdresser was French and she told me there is a large French community in the city. The UK can't be al bad, can it? [;-)]

[Gardengirl]

On our way south to our place in France on Sunday we sat next to a French woman for lunch, who told us about her trip to Bristol next week. She makes films, and was saying how difficult it is in France, with no money and backing available. She said money and support were easy to obtain in UK for her film making. She's delighted to be moving there, despite knowing hardly any English, and was thrilled to have us to talk to about it.

We also know a number of people in our little town who have grown up children who've moved to France for work, mostlty in restaurants. They say how great their children think it is to pick up work, then move on if they want to, rather than being more tied down in France. Several friends pop over to London or Ashford to visit family working there; good old Ryanair!

AFAIK they are all paying their taxes, so are entitled to all services.

[Clarkkent]

At the time of the last French presidential election, Sarkozy came to London on the stump. London, in terms of registered French voters was the 7th largest French city.

[Quillan]

Our neighbour has three of his daugters now living and working in the UK because its the only place they can get work. Two have already married Englishmen and the third is getting married shortly, again to an English chap. I did ask the mother why they are marrying English chaps and she said because they treated their women much better that French men and also should the UK be thrown out the EU they will be able to stay there. Not my thoughts I hasten to add but I was quite amazed. If you live in London then go visit Belsize Park, you can practice your French there. [;-)] To think the French complain about the English, Arabs etc all living together in one place, they are having a larf. [:D]

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

"The census showed that around 60% of the French in the UK lived within Greater London, with the majority aged between 25 and 40 years, confirming the generally held view that most French are in the UK to work, not to retire!"

If the majority of these French workers are paying for their healthcare through their UK income tax, why should healthcare be free to all those who come to France?

Sarko is only following the same healthcare rules as every other mainland EU country so why does that make him greedy?

 

[/quote]

How much do the English put into the system when they come over to live? Heaps. They renovate homes, employ French workers and everything they pay for, 20% goes in TVA to the government anyway. Healthcare is still a tax whatever way you want to call it, it's still money in the system.

[Russethouse]

Don't see your problem Richard, French people living in the UK  could be said to do the same - they  payVAT at the going amount, employ tradesmen when they need work done pay NI etc.........

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

They get free uk healthcare don't they? The reverse is not the same. New people enteringn France have to get private insurance.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]healthcare should be still free to all those who come into France..[/quote]Healthcare was and is never free - we who kept our CMU de base paid and still do pay for it, so let's put that one to bed for a kick off.

Whilst I agree that most of the French in the UK work and thus pay into the social security stytem over there, it is also true that they keep Mr Sarko's unemployment figures and payments down as a result, thus I still believe it's a good argument for allowing the principal of free movement to include social health care on the same basis as a local (as we had before his government came along) so I'm not altogether unsympathetic to your point of view, M. C de L.  This should be what Europe should stand for, imo - by joining together each country within the union supports the others to mutual benefit through good times and bad.

[nounours]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]They get free uk healthcare don't they? The reverse is not the same. New people enteringn France have to get private insurance.[/quote]

Only if they don't work.  If they work they get the same healthcare as the rest of the French nation  Why should you an immigrant[:P]  get special treatment not afforded to those who live here and graft here? 

[Quillan]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]They get free uk healthcare don't they? The reverse is not the same. New people enteringn France have to get private insurance.[/quote]

Its because France decided to take up the EU directive and the UK didn't. I think the UK is now the only country left who has not accepted the directive. The directive basically talks about freedom of movement in the EU by EU citizens which is OK but you are not allowed to be a burden on the state in which you decide to settle or live. Cooperlola can probably quote the directive word for word or give you a link to exact text.

People only have to get private health insurance if they are without an E121 or don't have a job. Even if the UK did adopt this directive it would not make a difference to the bulk of the French living there because they go there to work and therefore by working contribute to the health system. I believe major savings to the NHS could be main if the UK adopted the same directive.

[NormanH]

How low in terms of ignorant stupidity can this debate sink to?

1)"if that's true, then healthcare should be still free to all those who

come into France.

Greedy Sarko."

Ignorant comment at 100%

The Uk is the only place where free health care is based on residence ,

not on contributions so this problem has nothing to do with any other

Government

2)She makes films, and was saying how difficult it is in France, with no

money and backing available. She said money and support were easy to

obtain in UK for her film making. She's delighted to be moving there,

despite knowing hardly any English, and was thrilled to have us to talk

to about it.

Ignorant comment  at 300%

I nearly died laughing at the total distortion of the truth..

It's completely the other way around!

look at the thread on French cinema..

[NormanH]

"Cooperlola can probably quote the directive word for word or give you a

link to exact text."

She is probably the person who has done most damage to the proper understanding of the French Health system  with her site which gives the impression that the CMU is the NHS.

I really can't believe that people believe this sort of ill-informed misinformation

[Russethouse]

Frankly Norman you are way out of line - Coops has done no such thing and has been a valuable and informed source of correct information as well as being an active member of a campaign to stop British people living in France and contributing to the French economy by spending their money there being disadvantaged, through no fault of their own.

[NormanH]

cooperlola

" I still believe it's a good argument for allowing the principal of free

movement to include social health care on the same basis as a local (as

we had before his government came along)"

As usual you are wrong.

Any  non active British immigrant before 2000 had to have private health Insurance.

French nationals didn't

What has that got to do with Sarkozy?

Why do you continually refuse to accept the facts?

[NormanH]

I have just corrected yet another of her mistakes...

[Russethouse]

 I think you'll find that the statement didn't refer to pre 2000 - but Coops can answer for herself tomorrow.

As for making British think that the French system is like the NHS perhaps you should read the website:

In essence the French system, as set up in 1945, was one where the patient paid for the treatment at the point of delivery and re-claimed a proportion of the cost. Thus is it not, and should never be confused with, a National Health Service, as it is known in the UK

 It seems very odd to me that everything about French Health Issues seems to be wrong according to you and yet their campaign was successful - I guess they got somethings right after all [:@]

[Quillan]

I have found the French directive so you can work it out for yourselves.

http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm

 

[Gardengirl]

''2)She makes films, and was saying how difficult it is in France, with no money and backing available. She said money and support were easy to obtain in UK for her film making. She's delighted to be moving there, despite knowing hardly any English, and was thrilled to have us to talk to about it.

Ignorant comment  at 300%''

Norman, what an exceptionally rude comment! I quoted exactly what someone I met briefly told me; someone who has received backing for her film in UK. I know nothing about film making in either country, just what I was told; you might know a lot about film making, but you obviously know nothing about politeness in your responses. You could probably take a course in manners, or just sit back and observe!

[cooperlola]

[quote user="NormanH"]cooperlola
" I still believe it's a good argument for allowing the principal of free movement to include social health care on the same basis as a local (as we had before his government came along)"
As usual you are wrong.
Any  non active British immigrant before 2000 had to have private health Insurance.
French nationals didn't

What has that got to do with Sarkozy?

Why do you continually refuse to accept the facts?

[/quote]The government before this one accepted that having to have healthcare as an inactive could and did include contributing to and benefiting from CMU de base.  The only difference in interpretation by this right wing mob was to suggest that not being a burden on the social secutiry system of one's adopted country meant that private healthcare was the only allowable alternative.  Britain and other sensible governments in the Union take this to mean that they can contribute to and join the national system.

Call me old fashioned, call me a raging socialist if you like, but I think that's what a modern, caring world should be about - mutual support systems - be they health, social security, whatever, and left-wing French MPs and MEPs agree with me - and interpret the EU law in just the same way as I do (I have letters from them to the health minister to prove it) - but please don't call me a liar and an idiot without being sure of your facts. 

For the record OUR (not my, I could not have produced a website, let alone lobbied as successfully as we did, on my own, to save my life) website in no way implies that the French health system is like the NHS and I quote :

"In essence the French system, as set up in 1945, was one where the patient paid for the treatment at the point of delivery and re-claimed a proportion of the cost. Thus is it not, and should never be confused with, a National Health Service,"

[MrCanary]

So, in simple terms, is it the case that French people living in the UK get free healthcare based purely on being resident there without any requirement to actually work?

And before anybody jumps down my throat, I am asking the question - not making a statement...

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Mel"]So, in simple terms, is it the case that French people living in the UK get free healthcare based purely on being resident there without any requirement to actually work? And before anybody jumps down my throat, I am asking the question - not making a statement...[/quote]The qualification for NHS treatment is - broadly- residency, yes.  In practice, I suspect that an English accent and a white face will do.[Www]