People Power, one for Pachapapa!

[Chancer]

I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the protest, a relatively small group of  people managed to disrupt a much larger crowd.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d2e_1318334756

I enjoyed the guy getting the hose shoved up his sleeve [:D]

I cant help but think that one bull accidentally released would have been far more effective to debarasser the protestors [6]

[Christine Animal]

Far more fun than a bull fight!   [:P]   The aggressivity of the aficionados against the Gandhi attitude.  They didn't budge, but were finally dragged out in clumps, just like the dead bull.

Bravo to them!   [:)]

Thank you Chancer.

 

[pachapapa]

La violence qui s'est découlé de cette manifestation anti-corrida, totalement illégale, n'est pas excusable. Mais d'après le reglement taurin de l'UVTF chapitre II article 31 "Il est formellement interdit aux spectateurs : - de sauter dans la piste ou le callejon. - de troubler de quelque façon que ce soit l'ordre public et le déroulement du spectacle." Et que surtout les antis corridas ne nous parle pas de l’article 521-1 du Code Pénal car La célébration des corridas dans les villes membres de l’UNION DES VILLES TAURINE DE FRANCE est légale, et par conséquent, exclue des sanctions prévues à l’article 521-1 du Code Pénal.[:)]

[pachapapa]

Main event was a Novillada, honest apprentice bull fighters learning their trade.

A bit of research indicates that the arena at Rodilhan does this event every year to encourage young bullfighters.

The saturday afternoon event is free so presumably the Belgian, Dutch and german Anarchists would not be out of pocket.

The event continued to a successful conclusion after a delay of 15-20 minutes.

[Racerbear02]

I want to make it clear from the outset that while I have no love of bull fighting, I have never been to one, nor do I wish to go to one, in fact I think that the best bull fights are similar to this link  where the bull has it's chance [:)] , but I have to say that I found this video refreshing in that ordinary people who were at a fully legal event, like it or not, did not allow a bunch of protesters, however well intentioned, to spoil their entertainment.

There are far too many NIMBYs around willing to spoil other people's pleasures just to achieve their own aims, some laudable, some less so........

Had the spectators waited for the police to arrive and deal with it, there would have been hours of procrastination and negotiation and the protesters would have won. I do not think that the spectators were particularly aggressive, in fact I would have expected a far more robust response given the venue, nor was it all one sided, there were a considerable number of punches thrown by both sides.

I agree with Chancer, letting a bull in would have been a quick solution [6], but a solution which would have risked less injury to the bull, which is ostensibly why the protesters were there in the first place, would have been to simply hook up a tractor to their chain and drag them out.

I am sorry Christine Animal,  but to compare that bunch of tossers to Gandhi, is to insult the man's memory in my opinion. Gandhi called non violent protest  "satyagraha" which means 'truth force.' In this

doctrine the aim of any non-violent conflict was to convert the

opponent; to win over his mind and his heart and persuade him to your

point of view.  Hardly what these people were trying to achieve.

[pachapapa]

Curiously in the exercise of my right to free speech and legal expression I posted a tourist publicity of a video prepared by the Tourist Department of the town of Nimes on a french expatriate forum.

The video was immediately removed and when I reposted it I received an e-mail from the forum administrator and my attempts to log on to the forum were unsuccessful.

It would seem probable in a purely hypothetical sense that if CA was the administratoress of this forum that I would in all probability suffered a similar fate.[6]

[Edward Trunk]

"There are far too many NIMBYs around willing to spoil other people's pleasures just to achieve their own aims, some laudable, some less so........"

NIMBYs would object to bullfights in their own backyard, but willing to allow them in other people's backyards. I think people opposed to tormenting animals for "sport" would object to bullfights anywhere.

[Racerbear02]

OK Edward, I accept that perhaps NIMBY is the wrong term, how about PWAG's People With an Axe to Grind if we must have an acronym, it removes the localisation that you object to.

However, I must say that  the vast number of people, myself included, who abhor the concept of tormenting an animal for  "sport"  are unwilling to travel to Spain, South of France etc. to complain because it does not affect them directly in their locality, or is it because they are not sufficiently motivated to travel a great distance to protest their aims.  I know I would not travel that far, but if it was in Laon, 30kms away I might be persuaded to venture out and make a comment to the appropriate authorities.  Does that not make me a NIMBY??

[Christine Animal]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Curiously in the exercise of my right to free speech and legal expression I posted a tourist publicity of a video prepared by the Tourist Department of the town of Nimes on a french expatriate forum.

The video was immediately removed and when I reposted it I received an e-mail from the forum administrator and my attempts to log on to the forum were unsuccessful.

It would seem probable in a purely hypothetical sense that if CA was the administratoress of this forum that I would in all probability suffered a similar fate.[6]

[/quote]

 

I resent that remark Pachapapa.  I have never made you a personal remark and have the right to my opinion as you to yours.  I would never be the administratoress of anything and am posting less and less due to the attitude often encountered on here lately and I don't think I am alone.

In the "exercise of your right to free speech and legal expression", you could perhaps be as tolerant of others.

Racerbear is another example of this type of attitude with his nimbys and tossers.

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Edward Trunk"]"There are far too many NIMBYs around willing to spoil other people's pleasures just to achieve their own aims, some laudable, some less so........" NIMBYs would object to bullfights in their own backyard, but willing to allow them in other people's backyards. I think people opposed to tormenting animals for "sport" would object to bullfights anywhere.[/quote]

I certainly would not object to bull fights in my back yard.

And by the way bull fighting is not a sport.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Christine Animal"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Curiously in the exercise of my right to free speech and legal expression I posted a tourist publicity of a video prepared by the Tourist Department of the town of Nimes on a french expatriate forum.

The video was immediately removed and when I reposted it I received an e-mail from the forum administrator and my attempts to log on to the forum were unsuccessful.

It would seem probable in a purely hypothetical sense that if CA was the administratoress of this forum that I would in all probability suffered a similar fate.[6]

[/quote]

 

I resent that remark Pachapapa.  I have never made you a personal remark and have the right to my opinion as you to yours.  I would never be the administratoress of anything and am posting less and less due to the attitude often encountered on here lately and I don't think I am alone.

In the "exercise of your right to free speech and legal expression", you could perhaps be as tolerant of others.

Racerbear is another example of this type of attitude with his nimbys and tossers.

 

[/quote]

Sorry for your resentment.

May I presume that bull fight videos would not please you.

Should the making of bull fight videos be banned.?

[Christine Animal]

"Sorry for your resentment.

May I presume that bull fight videos would not please you.

Should the making of bull fight videos be banned.?"

 

I do not know anything about bull fight videos and have no comment to make on them.  The fact that you had a problem about one on another site has nothing to do with me.  Now kindly leave me alone.

 

[Racerbear02]

Christine Animal, I think I have made it clear where I stand on the issue of bull fighting. I am however tolerant of the rights of the peole who wish to persue and watch this " not sport" which is why I would never disrupt their legal pastime.  I might not like it, indeed I do not, but tolerance works both ways.

The protesters attitude, and not just in this case but in fact in most cases is totally intolerant, " I do not like this happening, therefore I will disrupt it without regard to other people's views or the consequences."   As such I class them all as tossers.  The slang dictionary defines a tosser as:  Noun. An idiot, a contemptible person. I stand by that.

NIMBYs are a wholly similar breed, " I do not like this happening, ( near me, but move it somewhere else away from me and I am not bothered ) therefore I will disrupt it without regard to other people's views or the consequences."   Again a paragon of tolerance, NOT.  I have already agreed that NIMBY was not the correct choice of term, for which I have apologised.

I have not attacked you or your beliefs in any way, I did question your Gandhi reference and I will stand by that comment, however I will support Voltaire's famous phrase " I disapprove of what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it "  That is tolerance.

I have no complaints or qualms about the views of the anti bull fighting protesters, I applaud them, but my problem lies with their choice of action in this case, I was delighted to see them repulsed by the spectators.  Just because a cause is "good " or "noble " in the eyes of one person or group, does not give them the right to impose their views on other people, by all means try to modify people's views and opinions by talk and persuasion , but disruptive action such as that needs to be stamped on.

I trust, Christine Animal,  that with this further explanation of my views, we can agree to differ on this without any animosity, for that is what I would like to be the outcome. 

[pachapapa]

After a week the corrida incident has resurfaced in the french national press.

The report conveys nothing new but the comments are however worth reading with commendable points argued from both sides of the divide.

Certainly more objective than the gandhiesque grotesquery further up the thread.[:(]

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/806318-gard-manifestation-anticorridas-tourne-affrontement

[Frenchie]

Hopefully soon this sort of " event" ( bullfighting) will have become a thing of the past.

[Pommier]

Let's hope so Frenchie!

[JohnM]

I struggle with the concept of people taking pleasure at seeing another living creature distressed (not just those who promote the idea of animals fighting, but also those who who wind up other human beings). Therefore I don't like the idea of the Bull fight.... but I have to agree with Racerbear02.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="JohnM"]I struggle with the concept of people taking pleasure at seeing another living creature distressed (not just those who promote the idea of animals fighting, but also those who who wind up other human beings). Therefore I don't like the idea of the Bull fight.... but I have to agree with Racerbear02.
[/quote]

Whether bull fighting results in cruelty is a "moot" point.

But a spanish aficianado does not go to a corrida to get pleasure from a distressed animal.

Indeed a spanish aficionado would express strong disapproval of halal and kosher methods of slaughtering animals.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

[quote user="JohnM"]I struggle with the concept of people taking pleasure at seeing another living creature distressed (not just those who promote the idea of animals fighting, but also those who who wind up other human beings). Therefore I don't like the idea of the Bull fight.... but I have to agree with Racerbear02.
[/quote]

Whether bull fighting results in cruelty is a "moot" point.

But a spanish aficianado does not go to a corrida to get pleasure from a distressed animal.

Indeed a spanish aficionado would express strong disapproval of halal and kosher methods of slaughtering animals.

[/quote]While I am not a supporter of Bullfighting I would defend the right of people to attend lawful activities. Peaceful protest outside the arena is one thing; disrupting the performance isquite another.

I always find it a bit strange that while people protest about bullfighting and foxhunting they seem quite happy to allow halal and kosher slaughter. Since these happen on a daily basis to many animals it is a much larger abuse of animals

[JohnM]

Ermm..... I think I see where you are coming from PPP, but I tend to think "that getting pleasure from seeing an animal in distress" and "ones pleasure coming from an activity which happens to cause distress to animals" as being so close that you would not get a fag paper between them.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="JohnM"]Ermm..... I think I see where you are coming from PPP, but I tend to think "that getting pleasure from seeing an animal in distress" and "ones pleasure coming from an activity which happens to cause distress to animals" as being so close that you would not g et a fag paper between them.
[/quote]

I can only presume that your totally inappropriate use of the word "distress" which reminds me of distressed gentlefolk in reduced circumstances.

Whereas the crux of the matter is that kosher and halal  slaughter of animals by cutting the throat to let the blood run out is barbaric; it is NOT by any stretch of the imagination qualified as distress.....and to attempt to conceal and justify it under the cloak of religious belief is DISGUSTING and morally reprehensible.

[JohnM]

1. Exactly what do you presume? Me thinks you forgot to finish the sentance.

2. I have just looked at a couple of online dictionaries to see why you think my use of "distress" is inappropriate.... with definitions like these...

transitive verb

1. to cause sorrow, misery, or suffering to; pain
2. to cause discomfort to; trouble
3. to exhaust or weaken with strain of any sort

I fail to see why you think my usage to be in appropriate.

3. I am not trying to justify Halal or Kosher meat.... and I tend to agree. However, I tend to think you've brought it into the debate in order to muddy the waters. So leave that out of this thread on bull fighting and, if you must start another thread about the other barbaric things us humans do.

[pachapapa]

Me thinks you forgot to finish the sentance.

Quite correct I forgot to finish the sentance.[:P]

Curious! is english your first language?

[JohnM]

Indeed, English is my first language. That's why I know when it is appropriate to use words like "distress". I wonder why you are asking? Are you trying to divert attention from the errors that you made in your posting?

[Quillan]

Here we go, yet again. [:(]