Do the French really dislike us non-French?

[Aussie]

Has been said, and recently as we get closer to moving we hear it more, "but you know they hate us"? Husband and I are both English but have lived most of our lives in Australia so we can be either! We plan to improve out French speaking, and make friends and immerse ourselves into the daily country/village life. We have done so wherever we have moved, but will we be up against some kind of prejudice?

[YCCMB]

Few people who move to France don't plan to do as you suggest. Why would you move anywhere and not try to learn the language and get involved?

"The French" - nobody can speak for all of them, but I guess it's like asking whether "The Australians" all believe that we're whinging Poms and that we don't wash. Some do, some REALLY do, and some are sufficiently open and broad minded/well travelled to realise that it's not true.

You may well face some prejudice, but it's hardly likely to be from the majority, and it certainly won't be any worse than that faced by any minority group in a large country.

[nectarine]

We had a holiday home in the Limousin for years and were told, by a Parisian who'd lived there for thirty years, that the English were only marginally more popular than the Parisians in the countryside! As another neighbour had explained that the Parisians were universally detested outside of Paris this gave us little comfort. However, she then explained that we were a least more popular than Eastern Europeans who come with empty pockets. A long time later, over a drink, she said the popular conception of Brits in France was that we were pleasant but very naive (I guess "nice but dim").

Hmm, I've been called worse.

Here in Aquitaine our French neighbours and community are far more used to tourists and second-home owners and, in my experience, more welcoming as long as you try and speak the language and fit in with their way of life.

[EuroTrash]

In my experience, the French take you as they find you.

Coming here without a chip on your shoulder is a good start. They take a while to weigh you up. But if over the weeks and months they see you are 'des gens bien', why wouldn't they like you? If there's something about somebody they don't like, they won't pretend they do - but it'll be because of their behaviour or attitude, not their nationality. After all, nobody likes everybody.

My builder has worked for UK second-home owners and he's sat in my house shaking his head in total bafflement over why they buy a house in a different country and spend so much money on it and hardly ever visit it. He doesn't understand them but that doesn't mean he dislikes them, he accepts them for the pleasant but strange beings that he considers them to be.

Respecting other people and not judging them is how the French are brought up. They won't rush to find out all about you and be your new best friend because they're not like that, they don't ask personal questions to strangers. Neighbours will polite and fairly distant at first, and it's not easy to tell whether they like you or not. As time goes on if you find you have things in common you'll progress from the handshake to the bise and then you'll know you're 'in'.

That's how I found it round here, at any rate.

[NormanH]

I agree with the preceding balanced comments, but would add that there is slightly less prejudice against non-English anglophones such as the Scottish and Irish who are seen as old allies, whereas the English are the old enemy. This is on a good humoured, teasing level, but if UKIP and the Daily Mail continue their 'French Bashing' it could develop.

This said you won't be affected as Australians, though the best way to become 'integrated' is to spend money with local businesses who will then at least put on a front of accepting even liking you. This is the effect that many who speak little French talk of when they say how well they have been accepted.

[idun]

[quote user="Aussie"]Has been said, and recently as we get closer to moving we hear it more, "but you know they hate us"? Husband and I are both English but have lived most of our lives in Australia so we can be either! We plan to improve out French speaking, and make friends and immerse ourselves into the daily country/village life. We have done so wherever we have moved, but will we be up against some kind of prejudice?[/quote]

Would it matter if the french really disliked non-french? And what will you do if you make such a big move and end up somewhere where you are not welcome.

I used to live in the Alpes and the people used to say that they did not believe that they there were particularly friendly, but I never had a problem. When holidaying though, we did find some places very cold and hostile and we speak french and IRL I am friendly and chatty. How the people from these areas would have been if we had moved in, I don't know, I'm just glad that we hadn't.

[Jonzjob]

I agree with a lot of the above. If you come here with the proverbial chip then you ain't going to fit, but if you come here to live and intergrate then you shouldn't have any problems. All of our neighbours are French apart from a new, Spanish, one and apart from the new one are very friendly. The Spanyard has a bad reputation following him and immediatly set off upsetting folks! That's another story!

By the way Aussie, you are not my sister are you [:-))][:-))] she has lived most of her life in Aussy, about as far east as you can get without getting sea wet![Www]

[Frederick]

Norman wrote : best way to become 'integrated' is to spend money with local businesses who will then at least put on a front of accepting even liking you.

How true .... I once had a loaner car from the garage .. It was noticed When asked where my car was and I said in the garage being repaired I was then asked where ... Big smiles and nods when I said it was the one in the village ... These things are important to them and the word gets round if you take your work out of your community ..

[EuroTrash]

Totally agree with Frederick's comment. That's one of the things they wait to find out - are you going be part of their community or are you going to get your compatriots in from the other side of the département to do work for you, and order your shopping from Tesco.

Re Norman's comments about them preferring non-English Brits, they must be better informed where you live because I've yet to find a neighbour that can tell the difference. I started off by explaining that I came from Wales but they still kept asking me if I know what the weather's like in England today, etc. It used to irk me a bit and once many years ago I tried to get it through to one neighbour that Wales isn't the same country as England, but he furrowed his brow trying to work out what he was missing, and then said yes he remembered all the troubles but things are better now aren't they? Obviously confusing Wales with Ireland. It was a tad embarrassing, I didn't know quite what to say, so now I just let it pass.

[Aussie]

Great, thanks all, just as I suspected, people are people, and if we become part of the community then we should be OK.

No, Jonzjob I don't think I have an unknown brother. Though we do live on the East Coast here just down the road from Byron bay which is the most easterly part. Lovely part of the world but I am missing certain aspects that we don't have here.

[NormanH]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]Totally agree with Frederick's comment. That's one of the things they wait to find out - are you going be part of their community or are you going to get your compatriots in from the other side of the département to do work for you, and order your shopping from Tesco.

Re Norman's comments about them preferring non-English Brits, they must be better informed where you live because I've yet to find a neighbour that can tell the difference. I started off by explaining that I came from Wales but they still kept asking me if I know what the weather's like in England today, etc. It used to irk me a bit and once many years ago I tried to get it through to one neighbour that Wales isn't the same country as England, but he furrowed his brow trying to work out what he was missing, and then said yes he remembered all the troubles but things are better now aren't they? Obviously confusing Wales with Ireland. It was a tad embarrassing, I didn't know quite what to say, so now I just let it pass.[/quote]

Perhaps you didn't notice the glee in the French media when it looked as if Scotland might vote for independence?

[idun]

 Piqued my curiosity now, what are 'certain aspects'?

[minnie]

The main thing is not to come across as "superior" or flash a lot of money around. All our neighbours and most of our friends here are French and welcome us into their homes. We have standing invites to French friends for Christmas Eve meal and other ones for Christmas Day lunch. Basically we're accepted as part of their extended family. Must admit that they may feel a little sorry for us as our only daughter lives in New Zealand. We go there annually and they feed our chickens and geese daily. However, this year, we're grateful for some help from a forum member who is looking after our new little kitten. The French are not so fond of cats other than in the great outdoors (catching mice).

[Sprogster]

There may be some basis for your concerns according to the results of an expat survey, the link to which I have posted below:

http://www.rivieratimes.com/index.php/provence-cote-dazur-article/items/do-expats-enjoy-living-in-france.html

[Aussie]

What do I miss?

Mainly the history, particularly old buildings. I spent a few weeks in England last year and spent most of it going round cathedrals castles etc. Nothing that old here in Aus.

Other thing is being able to travel to other places easily. Aus is so bloody big, Husband works in the news media in Geelong, 16 hours drive away. He was working in Woolongong which was only an 8 hour drive to see him for a weekend. We get used to a lot of long distance driving! A few years ago we moved us, dogs and horses from WA to Tasmania. That was a five day trip across 2/3 of the country!. I have friends in England, Spain and Holland and we are looking forward to doing more travelling.

Australia is getting expensive, and full of undesirables. Maybe it is the whole world doing that same?

It is always possible that we will get fed up with old stuff and want to come back here. Lucky that both of us have Aus and EEC passports, so we can. I think for now (hopefully long term) we are just needing a change.

Oh and Minnie, there is absolutely no worry of us flashing a lot of money around!! Haha, I wish!

[mint]

We had our first Aussies in our village last year.

I introduced them to my walking groups and some village activities and there was great curiosity about them.

Sometimes I try to explain a bit more, for example, that the Aussies come to their French house in the summer because it is winter in the southern hemisphere.  The more "traditional" ones would say, ah bon?

The better informed then say mais oui.  Mint, tu as voyagé là?

The best question I had was, but what do Aussies SPEAK?  I just managed to restrain myself from saying STRINE bien entendu [:P]

[Jonzjob]

Strine's correct init?

Will you be moving over and working or are you amongst us, the retarded, sorry, retired (thinking about it I may well have been right first time?)

[EuroTrash]

Norman, you obviously live in a far more sophisticated and cosmopolitan environment than I do! I don't think many of the locals here took the slightest interest in the Scottish vote or took on board why it was important - well to them it wasn't I suppose (nor to me either I have to admit). They read Ouest France round here and I didn't see much excitement about the Scottish vote in that - as I recall, at the time when the Scottish vote happened, Ouest France's front page stories were mostly following the saga of the revised bin charges.

[Hoddy]

Until a year ago I would have agreed with all the positive remarks that other posters have made so far and I don’t want to put you off.

We bought our house in 2002 and have spent every summer since then in France. I have attended French lessons every winter and can get along pretty well now. We always employ local labour and shop in local shops. We don’t bring masses of food with us from England, the only exception being tea bags. Once our neighbours understood that we didn't live in a big city in the UK we've got along pretty well.

We were unable to find a shower enclosure that we need for our house in England and were surprised and very pleased to find exactly what we wanted in France. While we were checking it over I was surprised to see that it was actually made in France and remarked to the salesman that it was odd that we couldn’t buy one in England when you could buy things there made in places much further afield. He said quite casually that it was probably because the French don’t like the English. At first I thought he was joking, but it transpired that he wasn’t and we didn’t buy the shower which was a loss to the store of almost 1000 euros. One person in eleven years can hardly be said to be typical and it hasn’t put me off France as a whole nevertheless I found it quite upsetting.

[woolybanana]

My late doctor was a Lt Colonel in the reserve having served in a medical capacity all over the world.He claimed that the army, generally, including himself, did not like the Brits because we let them down around Dunkirk time.

The locals here are reserved until they have sussed you out, but after that are quite friendly. But one has to have looked after the pigs together for a very long time before being truly accepted.

But there a lot of incomers these days who are not treated any differently.

[Sprogster]

If there is a reasonable possibility, as you mention, of returning to Oz eventually I would hesitate buying a property in France in the current poor market as French house prices are forecast to continue to gradually fall for a good few more years and rural French property can be difficult and expensive to sell in the best of times.

So would suggest you rent for a least a year, as you might find that after your first French winter, the novelty wears thin very quickly!

[idun]

[quote user="woolybanana"]My late doctor was a Lt Colonel in the reserve having served in a medical capacity all over the world.He claimed that the army, generally, including himself, did not like the Brits because we let them down around Dunkirk time.

The locals here are reserved until they have sussed you out, but after that are quite friendly. But one has to have looked after the pigs together for a very long time before being truly accepted.

But there a lot of incomers these days who are not treated any differently.[/quote]

Well I can bring a positive note to that, as my neighbours mother was from Dunkirk and was a girl there during the war. She was warm with us from day one and we became good friends.......... and for their 50th wedding anniversary, invited M Idun and myself to dinner and no one else, in fact she was miffed with the kids who thought it was a lot of fuss about nothing....... none of their marriages had lasted incidentally.............

[NormanH]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]Norman, you obviously live in a far more sophisticated and cosmopolitan environment than I do! I don't think many of the locals here took the slightest interest in the Scottish vote or took on board why it was important - well to them it wasn't I suppose (nor to me either I have to admit). They read Ouest France round here and I didn't see much excitement about the Scottish vote in that - as I recall, at the time when the Scottish vote happened, Ouest France's front page stories were mostly following the saga of the revised bin charges.[/quote]

Undoubtedly [6]

[Gardian]

Not much to add to all the other comments - in our experience, just a handful of unpleasant people in 10 yrs of living here. Whether those people were unpleasant because we were British or just because they were 'not nice people' is hard to say.

Just one thought - if somebody is hostile towards you because you're not French, then they aren't worth spending a moment of your time on them. Try to make sure though that they aren't your new neighbours!

[Jonzjob]

Any tips on the new neighbour front Gardian [:-))][8-)]