35 heures - why are people against it?

[momochi]

i'm a little confused, especially over the issue of salary.  if workers can be paid 39hours worth of work, but only needs to work for 35 hours now, why are they against it?

for employers, is it because this policy is supposed to encourage them to employ more, therefore they dislike it?  but even if they do employ, aren't the social charges paid by the government?  and research claims that working less hours increase productivity rate - is this the case?

thanks guys!

[Tresco]

[quote user="momochi"]

i'm a little confused, especially over the issue of salary.  if workers can be paid 39hours worth of work, but only needs to work for 35 hours now, why are they against it?

for employers, is it because this policy is supposed to encourage them to employ more, therefore they dislike it?  but even if they do employ, aren't the social charges paid by the government?  and research claims that working less hours increase productivity rate - is this the case?

thanks guys!

[/quote]

Because if you are on a very low wage, you might want/need to work many more hours that 35 or even 39.

Yes, the 35 hour a week policy was supposed (in part) to encourage employers to take on new people, but it hasn't worked out that way. Social charges are borne by both the government and employers. As I understand it the cost to employers is very, very high. Business/ermployed people' will hopefully give you their views on this.

Regarding your final point about working 'less hours'' I wonder how many hours you mean, and in what sort of employment. I often wonder how long Air Traffic Controllers can work for, sensibly, each day, just as I wonder about  people doing hard physical labour, day in, day out. I used to be able to do 15/18 hours a day when I was in my late 20's and early 30"s.

I'm 45 now but those days are way past me - perhaps partly due to what I did then?. I was in England then, so there was no restiction on how much I could work/earn.

[nimportequoi]

There is a lot of difference in the way the rule is interpreted. In big companies (FT, where I teach for example), the staff get an extra 4/5 weeks paid leave (RTT) every year so account for the fact that they work over the set 35 hours every week. This gives them a total of 45 - 50 days paid leave every year and costs the company a fortune. In contrast, in many smaller companies, there is no compensatory scheme. The employees who have now got used to the extra leave are going to find it very difficult to give up if the law is changed (I believe both Sarko and Ségo are against it).

[saddie]

 "Because if you are on a very low wage, you might want/need to work many more hours that 35 or even 39."

For example - the minimum wage in England is £5.35 ph which means you would only be ALLOWED to earn  £187.25 per week on a 35 hr week. No working a few more hours so you can afford a new pair of shoes. What can you do with extra leisure time if you have no money?

35 hour weeks may be fine for salaried people but for the hourly paid is very restricting

[Crevette]

I was amazed at the amount of holiday you get in France!

In thh UK I started at 23 days holiday - this moved up to 28 days holiday after 5 years.

In France (working for the same company) I keep the 28 days (some colleagues have up to 31) and in addition I have 15 extra days of "RTT" making 43 days in total.

Also, the UK has 8 Bank holidays and in France there are 11 (although if they fall on the weekend you don't have them, but it still averages out as 1 and a half days more).

So in total I have pretty much twice as much holiday now compared to when I started!

In theory I should do 40 hours a week to get these extra 15 days and it is probably true, but then again the British work on average 43.6 hours a week without this benefit.

I find this another benefit which means it's great to have a job but difficult to get one if you don't have one. Other benefits include the Comite enterprise, tranport payments, 1% housing, right to training, etc.

Regards,

-Rob-

Country           No of public holidays
Italy             16 (inc 1 local)

Iceland           15

Spain             14

Portugal          14 (inc 2 local)

Germany           10-14 (depending on region)

Austria           13

Norway            12

France            11 (+ varying local)

Sweden            11

Belgium           10

Luxembourg        10

Greece            10 (inc 6 regional)

Denmark           9.5

Ireland           8

Finland           8

UK                8 (10 in Northern Ireland)

Netherlands       7

[Val_2]

In the building trade very few people work over 39 hours legitimately. If you do a 39 hour week, for those extra four hours, the employer pays 25% again on each charge if he has less than 10 employees, over ten and the charge is 10% I believe. Each year you must declare to URSSAF whether you are working the 35 or 39 or more hours system so they can make sure they get their payments. I know many workers here who work well over the basic 35 hour week and get cash payments in lieu and one local company actually went bankrupt because it was giving the workers unlimited overtime and the monthly charges couldn't be met in the end and they closed down. Most folks like the 35 hour week, a lot get Monday off which they didn't before and as far as I can see, there were not that many extra jobs created because of the high social charges which the bosses have to meet with no help from the government.

[Jc]

But remember that in the UK,if a Bank Holiday occurs at the weekend,you get a day off on Friday or Monday;in Europe "tant pis".

[Loiseau]

But look how the French get to "faire le pont", and take in the day in between when a holiday falls on a Tuesday or a Thursday!

Angela

[andyh4]

But that's just part of their holiday entitlement.

Nothing to stop you taking Tuesday off after a Monday bank holiday.

 

[Patf]

We were talking to a french couple about this recently. He works in building and she's a hospital secretary. They both had about 6-8 weeks holiday a year plus bank holidaysand keep to the 35 hr. week. They were amazed to hear what long hours and short holidays we used to have in the UK. Especially husband who was self-employed and worked every day morning noon and evening for years. For 3 years we never took a holiday.After "long service" I got 25 days a year holiday. If the french regard Brits as "rich" maybe this is why, we work harder. Though I think this has been said before. Pat.

[redmike]

My son works for an English company in France and as such works more than 35 hours a week but for more or less the minimum wage.

[Jc]

The beurocrats in Brussels get every public holiday from every country in the EU and then also "faire le pont".

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="Jc"]The beurocrats in Brussels get every public holiday from every country in the EU and then also "faire le pont".[/quote]

So, would you have any evidence for that, then? Or is it just another Euromyth?

[Chancer]

As I worked for myself I only took one holiday in 12 years (on my 40th birthday) but it did allow me to save enough money to move here and take the opportunity to backpack around the world before coming here.

It was during my travels that I encountered Americans that only get 2 weeks paid holiday per year, what would they make of the French regime?

[PossumGirl]

[quote user="J.R."]

It was during my travels that I encountered Americans that only get 2 weeks paid holiday per year, what would they make of the French regime?

[/quote]

To most people, it sounds like a fantasy. BTW, that 2 weeks paid leave isn't even guaranteed for many people.  Most holiday time is calculated based on hours/days worked and years of service.  So, in a new job, you probably wouldn't even get a week's paid leave the first year.

PG

[momochi]

By the way....if the initial aim of this policy is to "increase employment" and to "increase the quality of life" [e.g. family] by reducing workin hours, do you believe it has succeeded in achieving its goals?

[Lollie]

Yes, but you have to use your RTT days when you are off sick, without a note, and generally you cannot take them as a weeks holiday, but to use them to add to bank holidays to make extra long weekend ends,  also if you dont use them you cannot carry them forward. It really replaces overtime.   I wonder, is there such a thing as overtime payment here?

Lollie