Francois Hollande says......

[alittlebitfrench]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-francois-hollande-theresa-may-eu-referendum-negotiations-article-50-france-a7148211.html

He is hated by most if not all people in France and Europe yet he keeps yapping on...

For someone who pays 9000 euros per month (French news) on a haircut you would think he would keep quiet. Especially when he does not have much hair to cut.

Where is France going ?

[NormanH]

Argumentum ad hominem  is always a sign of  someone who is struggling to find anything pertinent to say, and can be ignored with contempt.

Hollande is deeply unpopular, on the right because he is a "Socialist", and in is own camp because he won the last election on a socialist manifesto and has now veered sharply to a liberal-democrat one, which is seen as a betrayal. It would be like voting for Corbyn and getting Blaishite policies.

On Article 50 it does not matter if it is Hollande or his successor, since they have similar policies towards the UK

Juppé for example has already spoken of moving the UK border back to the UK and closing the camps at Calais etc.

On the other  I do not see what France thinks she can do about Article 50.

Until it is actioned nothing has changed, except that a referendum has stated that a majority of voters are in favour of Brexit.

May has said that 'Brexit means Brexit" and  so it will probably go ahead but as yet nothing official has been done.

I see however that the UK has given up the EU presidency for 2017, showing the intention to leave is there, but I don't understand what pressure the French think they can put.

[alittlebitfrench]

So what am I missing here ?

France is in Political and economic meltdown....yes it is..! FN is coming and the French are fighting each other over this that and the other ?

France economically is in a worse state than the UK (even after Brexit) yet expats/immigrants still want to move to France.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160708/brits-ignore-brexit-fears-to-make-dream-move-to-france

So why would you move to France rather than stay in the UK ? Wiltshire, Devon, Dorset, Suesex, Hampshire ect... is nice ?

I don't get it.

[idun]

A good friend who is also a bit thin on top was telling us about Hollande's barber's bill and said he is taking the Michael......especially as it is with public funds.....what could I do but agree.

I pointed out that it was a little odd that he was so vain about his hair, when I have yet to see him with a decent fitting suit, maybe he should go to saville row, although there must be good tailor's in France.

[Rabbie]

An Article 50 application can only be put in by the country wishing to leave. In the case of the UK this can be done either by a vote in Parliament or by the Government using the Crown Prerogative. There has been talk in the press of a legal challenge if the royal prerogative is used

[NormanH]

ALBF

"So why would you move to France rather than stay in the UK ? Wiltshire, Devon, Dorset, Suesex, Hampshire ect... is nice ?

I don't get it."

I don't get the link between this and the OP.

 

You add non-sequitur to argumentum ad hominem.

[NormanH]

For the sake of balance notice that Sarkozy paid 8000€ + a month to his maquilleuse

It seems I can add being selective with evidence , or Cherry Picking to the list of logical fallacies..

[idun]

LOL NH, neither are acts of respect or decency to the tax payers of, in this case France...... (a rate country where it is any better) and I will not go into the 'expenses' spending of EUMP's[Www]

Why politicans act in such a fashion is one thing, my feeling is that most of them are mendacious, so how could I expect any better behaviour? That 'we' let them get away it, is quite another thing, shame on us really!

[Chancer]

I watched the real time exchange with great interest, neither spoke the others language and were listening to near real time translations through ear-pieces. Something wasn't right and then I worked out what their pre-arranged strategy was.

 

Whenever he/she said anything that the other was supposed to agree with he/she would look at the other and make an open hand gesture while saying it, the other would then nod firmly with a sincere look on their face it would be a couple of seconds before they heard what they had just agreed with so sincerely [:D][:D] 

 

Oh how I could have had a good laugh if I were speaking to Flamby, the way I could have taken the pi55 out of him and the wobbly spray painted haired guignol Flamby would have agreed with everything I said [6]

 

Someone has got to do a Youtube voice-over [:D]

[chessie]

Shame I missed that.

Isn't it possible, though, that Ms May understands and speaks French, and Msr Hollande understands and speaks  English - and that they were both 'just playing for time' - or was this just 'sham courtesy' ?

[NormanH]

I have an uneasy feeling that the interpreters may not always get over what is meant, and that could explain why problems arise.

I have seen situations where people who speak the other language extremely well but aren't native or haven't the experience of that country (the culture in the broadest sense) don't grasp what is being said, although they understand the individual words.

You can see it in a very basic form in talking about tax and social security where the difference between the two can get blurred, but in more sophisticated examples it is about preconceptions, what us automatically assumed to 'be the case'.

For example the French know that they are supposed to know and refer to the official 'textes' : ignorance of them is no defence since they are publicly available and you are supposed to make yourself aware of your responsibilities (making a tax declaration for example)

English people often say "but I didn't get a letter asking me to"

Again that is a crude example but sometimes I have to explain to both parties the block that comes about when the two sets of expectations don't mesh

All that to say I suspect this happens at international level, given the ignorance of each other's points of views I hear expressed by politicians in the two languages..

[Chancer]

[quote user="chessie"]Shame I missed that.

Isn't it possible, though, that Ms May understands and speaks French, and Msr Hollande understands and speaks  English - and that they were both 'just playing for time' - or was this just 'sham courtesy' ?
[/quote]

 

Well I started out hoping that Mrs May spoke or understood French, one thing you learn when communicating is to read the other persons facial expressions, to see the difference between a sincere nod, an insincere one and a confused one. I could hear the BBC's translator and of course what he said lagged behind the speeches, its normal and so does the official ones, I could hear Hollandes speech behind the voice over translation and Ms Mays was not dubbed (it was the BBC) the nodding reactions were instant and staged as was the feigned sincerity, it threw me at first, there should have been a lag and then a comprehension lag, even if the person knew the language perfectly like Christine Lagarde there would have been a tiny comprehension lag and its that which can be seen in the eyes in a real conversation.

 

No, they were both playing the game and responding to the agreed cues, playing very well which means that they both had had a lot of practice, Mrs May was uncomfortable with her earpiece and took it out each time she spoke, probably also recieving a french translation of her own words!!

 

I will look carefully from now on to other public meetings of world leaders to see the cues.

[andyh4]

simultaneous translation can be anything but easy.

I had a friend who took part time work transcribing the recordings of EU translations.

For those that do not know German, in many cases the verb ends up at the end of the sentence or clause. On one occasion the tape of the translation arrived and several minutes in there was a very long pause during which the translator can be heard muttering "Get to the verb, get to the f'ing verb",

[Martin963]

Headline in the Telegraph:

<<Theresa May meets Francois Hollande: French president

demands PM 'justifies' delaying Article 50>>

To which I can only add:

Perhaps Patapouf would himself care - before lecturing us - to justify to his own people the delaying

of "l'inversion de la courbe du chomage" for a fourth year!

Honestly,  he really is a twit of the first order.

[alittlebitfrench]

Norman Wrote..

"I don't get the link between this and the OP."

My point being that everyone is jumping up and down about the economic effects and other associated concerns of Brexit and the dire political climate of the UK yet people still want to move to France or those who do live here want to get French citizenship but the situation is far far far worse here.

It is like jumping out of frying pan and into a fire....and you have to pay a lot more taxes.

I don't get it.

BTW, a recent poll in France said that overwhelmingly that any elected French president should be able to speak English. These people went to the best schools, universities and they can't speak English. I don't get that either. Elitism methinks.

[idun]

Merkel I believe speaks several languages and likely decent english and french. I'm sure I have heard Hollande speak english.

May, no idea at all.

Now I know that Nick Clegg, is a bit of a linguist, several I believe, so maybe a good choice for the LibDems brexit monitor[Www]

[andyh4]

ALBF wrote

My point being that everyone is jumping up and down about the economic effects and other associated concerns of Brexit and the dire political climate of the UK yet people still want to move to France or those who do live here want to get French citizenship but the situation is far far far worse here.

It is like jumping out of frying pan and into a fire....and you have to pay a lot more taxes.

I don't get it.

I think whether you find France better or worse than the UK may well depend on your personal circumstances.

If you are seeking employment, young, with few resources, then I do agree that France is worse.

But if you are retired, with a final salary, index linked pension, living in your chateau paid for by selling your semi (or maybe your mum's semi) in the SE of England, then I can see that France has many attractions.

Even for those in employment, I doubt if there are (m)any in France who are subjected to the working conditions of those reported today as working for SportsDirect. (you probably have not heard the story but try a google search).