FLYING RYANAIR POST FEB 1ST - READ THIS

[AnOther]

From another thread:

[quote user="Gardian"]I believe that BA & Ryanair have opted to absorb the tax hit for bookings made before Brown's announcement.  Hope so.  It would have been a logistical nightmare.[/quote]WRONG...!!! and it is giong to be a nightmare. Ryanair have said:  

THE NEW TAX MUST BE PAID BEFORE MIDNIGHT PRIOR TO THE DAY OF TRAVEL OR YOU AIN'T GOING - PERIOD, THERE'S NO PAYING ON THE DAY.

All affected passengers are supposed to be notified by email but no way is that giong to catch 100%. There will be those who are away and without internet access, those with crashed or maybe even stolen computers, some may have changed ISP & therefore perhaps email address, the list goes on.

To make a tax (of any nature) retrospective is outrageous, unconscionable even downright vindictive.

I'm not sure the ramifications of this measure have sunk in to GB's tiny mind yet and as the furore gathers momentum, as it surely will, and they realise what a monster has been created, (and for the sake of a relative pittance), I wouldn't be surprised to see a last minute U-turn. It wouldn't be the first time !

Incidentally, I see there is not a word about this on the Ryanair website........you may wonder why.

My theory:- Ryanair is spoiling for fight with the UK government and the more unhappy punters they've got the happier they'll be.

[Frederick]

I believe as they already have your bank details when you bought tickets  on line they will just  take the tax hike from your account ....its probably already been collected .

[Sunday Driver]

The government announced this increase in air passenger duty on 6 December 2006 and all booking made since that date include the new duty.  As far as prior bookings are concerned, the airlines have had plenty of time to either collect the outstanding duty or decide to absorb the cost themselves. 

As Frederick says, it can be collected through your credit card.

To imagine that the Chancellor's "tiny mind" will be even remotely considering a last minute U-turn is pure fanstasy.

 

[AnOther]

Maybe but they haven't said that and anyway I don't recall giving them permission to take additional money from my card without asking and there's nothing in their T&C's to say you agree to this so they can't do it.

And what about people who may have changed banks in the meantime say or are overdrawn or close to it and that tips them over, it stinks whichever way you cut it.

[BJSLIV]

 

Looks to me as though their t&cs have it covered!

4.2.2 Taxes, fees and charges imposed on air travel are constantly changing and can be imposed after the date that your reservation has been made. If any such tax, fee or charge is introduced or increased after your reservation has been made you will be obliged to pay it (or any increase) prior to departure. Similarly, if any such tax, fee or charge is abolished or reduced such that it no longer applies to you, or a lesser amount is due, you will be entitled to claim a refund of the difference from us.

The collection of additional charges by card is covered in the t&cs of card usage. The same system as used by ferry companies for only using half of a day return ticket.

[AnOther]

But doesn't say they can take it from your card so back to my point about people who may not become aware of it.

[BJSLIV]

In the light of all the valid reasons you outlined why Ryanair's attempts to contact travelers might fail, I don't think many people would object, if the alternative is arriving at the airport to find themselves with an invalid ticket!.

Incidentally this particular subject was discussed on Radio4 today, and it was confirmed that Ryanair are entitled to use this method of collection.

[AnOther]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]The collection of additional charges by card is covered in the t&cs of card usage. The same system as used by ferry companies for only using half of a day return ticket.[/quote]There is no Carte Blanche for companies to randomly take your money. It has to be in their T&C's and you have agreed to it and unless I've missed it I see no such agreement on Ryanair's site.

[AnOther]

Our post's crossed BJSLIV and I didn't hear the R4 programme but obviously I have to accept that they must know better than I.

If this is the case though then theoretically there should be very few passegers turning up who haven't paid.

Clearly the last thing anybody needs is 100 passengers in the check-in line trying to pay on the spot so whilst I can understand the point in making sure everyone has paid pre flight then it seems unduly harsh to drop the gate at midnight if it's likely to affect so few.

If I were personally affected by this, which I'm not but only by couple of days, then I would certainly be closely checking my bank or CC account to see if it had been taken. 

[BJSLIV]

I notice that its also in Ryanair's conditions that you must keep them informed of any change of email address after a booking is made.

The R4 programme actually said that as of this morning, only Jet2 were using this automatic collection, Ryanair were said to be still deciding how to collect.

Whatever they eventually decide we know it will be the customer who is wrong.

[Gardian]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

From another thread:

[quote user="Gardian"]I believe that BA & Ryanair have opted to absorb the tax hit for bookings made before Brown's announcement.  Hope so.  It would have been a logistical nightmare.[/quote]WRONG...!!! and it is giong to be a nightmare. [/quote]

Yes, afraid so.  I can only think that the airlines were trying to persuade the Treasury to roll over on bookings already made, but obviously to no avail. In BA's case, it isn't philanthropy (to absorb the cost) - it's just that they really do have a major problem to try to collect the additional tax, whereas the lc carriers can just impose it.

I know that everybody likes to knock Ryanair et al, but I look at it this way.  I believe that Ryanair carry around 40M passengers p.a. Let's assume that half of these journeys depart from the UK and that 10% of those journeys were booked before 6th Dec for travel after 1st Feb.  That's £10M - probably some dodgy assumptions in there, but it's still more than a few quid.  If it was your business and it wasn't a situation of your making and you had a legitimate means of recouping the 'hit', what would you do?  I just hope that they're polite about it, but you can be sure that O'Leary won't be very polite to HMG. 

One can debate it forever, but I'll cough up reluctantly because the only difference is that I booked before 6th Dec: if I was booking those flights now, I'd be paying just the same.  Oh and I've no desire to be one of those airport type ranters who gets refused boarding because he's late or hasn't paid the tax.

[AnOther]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

I notice that its also in Ryanair's conditions that you must keep them informed of any change of email address after a booking is made.[/quote]And quite rightly so.

[quote user="BJSLIV"]The R4 programme actually said that as of this morning, only Jet2 were using this automatic collection, Ryanair were said to be still deciding how to collect.[/quote]Maybe because they don't have the right to take it automatically and all the more reason NOT to declare the "drop dead at midnight" policy.

[quote user="BJSLIV"]Whatever they eventually decide we know it will be the customer who is wrong.[/quote]Amen to that.............!

I've got an idea, make anyone who hasn't paid buy £5 worth of scratch cards before they're allowed to check in, probably be the first ones they'll ever sell....lol...!!!!

 

[AnOther]

I don't have a problem with them charging it as it's not of their making it's more the typically blunt and uncompromising response that I take issue with.

[Baz]

This is the statement made Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary said all passengers will be emailed and if they fail to pay the day before their flight, they will not be able to fly. 

So this sums up the action that Ryanair will adopt. In fairness it is not a problem caused by them and why should they carry the cost when they charge low fares. If you booked with British Airways  it will absorb the costs of duty on passengers who booked before the announcement.

Baz

[Nick Trollope]

Small point; according to R4 this morning, Ryanair (& easyjet et al.) won't debit your card automatically, it is up to you to pay it. If you don't, they you will suffer the consequences (with Ryanair at least). Easyjet were insisting that all outstanding charges were paid by Monday next - in advance of the actual imposition of the tax on the 1st Feb. I don't know if this is still so. Ryanair (& EJ) will not accept payment at the desk - worried about checkin ques. BA & the other "large" carriers are waiving the charges. One of the LC's is doing auto debits (Can't remember who - based at Leeds).

RA still cheap, however.

 

[AnOther]

So how I wonder are you supposed to pay this then ?

Sounds like it will mean phoning up and waiting on hold for ages because I don't see extra staff being put on to cope.

Time will tell.

 

[Blanche Neige]

..........."One of the LC's is doing auto debits (Can't remember who - based at Leeds)".

 

I think it is Jet2

 

[lucky luke]

If this is a UK tax will you have to pay on leaving France (to travel to England) or will the charge only apply when you are flying back to France from the UK?

LL

[Llwyncelyn]

ErnieY I understand your feelings for Brown has done such damage in the past as to Pension schemes etc that I believe he is sinister and will stoop to nothing just to make sure that his ideology is to the front.  That is not a party political broadcast so please do not delete (Mods) and it is a personal opinion and one to which I am entitled to make.

However ErnieY a contract for goods services or whatever has two essential elements t's and c's and they are both express and implied terms.    Express are all those that you see in the documentation and associated documentation be it internet or whatever.  Implied are all of those other things that a reasonable man would imply.  That is simplistic but basically the case.  Thus if you paid by CC in the first place for any surcharge and reading the T's and C's printed above then I think the Courts would imply it would be reasonable for any additional payments to be collected by CC.  My view only but the airlines argue that Govt legislation is outside of their control.

In the alternative you could always sue Ryannair through Money On-Line through HMCS and see where that gets you.  Quite interesting and would cost literally nothing but more than you are paying in additional taxes.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Llwyncelyn"]

ErnieY I understand your feelings for Brown has done such damage in the past as to Pension schemes etc that I believe he is sinister and will stoop to nothing just to make sure that his ideology is to the front[/quote]He showed his true colours from day 1 when he abolished tax relief on dividends which by itself drove a stake into the heart of the pensions industry, but then, just as the industry was descending into crisis, delivered the killer blow with a supposed cure in the shape of the ill conceived blunt force FRS17 accounting rules, and yet still people vote for them.

I remember a quote I read somewhere "Democracy is too precious a jewel to be entrusted to the people"

[quote user="Llwyncelyn"]....... Thus if you paid by CC in the first place for any surcharge and reading the T's and C's printed above then I think the Courts would imply it would be reasonable for any additional payments to be collected by CC.[/quote]The law (apart from being an ass of course) is a complex and cumbersome beast and the word "reasonable" a very powerful one which can be debated ad nauseum but I would say that the notion that any company, not just Ryanair, is  empowered, without prior consent, to take at will additional funds from a customers CC is not at all reasonable and is both unacceptable and in fact highly dangerous. Where does the line get drawn ?

All of this is outwith my original point and my beef though which is that Ryanair have adopted what, in my view, is an unreasonable (there's that word again) and unneccessarily harsh "drop dead" policy.

Hopefully 99% of passengers will receive their emails, be it to request payment or informing them that it's been taken from their CC., but that will still leave a significant number of passengers who, for genuine reasons, haven't paid and will be denied the opportunity to do so and forefeit their seat. Most of them, albeit under protest, will likely have no choice but to stump up for a new ticket at the top price which will be charged on the day of course (at least the seat should be there...!!!) and Mr'Oleary will make even more money out of their misery.

On reflecting that last sentence it would not surprise me if, on realising at 1 minute past midnight that the surcharge hadn't been paid for flights that day, the booking system released the seats for resale...!

As a footnote, I'm reminded from another source that technically the Air Passenger Tax is only actually due at the point of travel so Ryanair (and others) are in fact charging it advance...!

[AnOther]

[quote user="ErnieY"](apart from being an *** of course)[/quote](apart from being  (another name for a donkey and what Christ rode on)) of course....[blink]

[Ron Avery]

As the purpose of supplyng an up to date E mail address to a non ticket airline is primarily to be advised of any changes, the chances are these hypothetically out of touch people will not only not pay the supplement but also miss their flights if the departure time is altered. I cannot help feeling that this is slow news day story being hyped up by the 24 hour news channels when in fact it will affect few people in reality, nobody who has posted to this thread so far will be affected.  Virgin are not absorbing the tax so if you are flying long haul from the UK , which has really nothing to do with a living in France forum but nevertheless, it will cost a lot more than Ryanair passengers are being asked to cough up.  What I cannot understand is how this tax, (which is supposed to deter air travel?) is going to stop people who have already booked and paid for their tickets from flying.  The UK  Govt. are using the money for exactly what?  A giant CO 2 filter over the UK, new greener engines for airplanes or to avoid sticking up fuel duty on the other Co2 culprits,  the car!! 

[Nelson]

Ron those other Co2 culprits, the car have already been hit by a tax hike of 1.25 pence but unlike air passengers this tax hike was imposed at 6 pm on the day he made the announcement. Then of course the oil companies added thier bit for collecting it resulting in 2p rise at the pumps.

regards colin

[Coco]

This thread explains a lot to me - I hadn't seen it earlier.  My sister-in-law recently booked Stansted to Dinard flights to come and see us in April.  At first she told me the flights were £9.99 each.  By the time she had actually paid for her and her husband, and their baggage(!) the total bill was £142!!![:(]  Likewise a friend booking the same flight two days later has paid £188 for two tickets!!!  The ferries will soon be rubbing their hands in glee - in the past friends have flown into Dinard because it's so much cheaper than the ferry but at this rate (if it weren't for the fact that they're only coming for the weekend) the St Malo ferry would have been MUCH cheaper for the four of them in one car.  At this rate Ryanair soon won't be able to call themselves a low cost airline!

[Bob T]

Slightly off topic, I know, but is this a green tax? Does it do anything to stop the CO2 emisions? I understand that 1.6% of all CO2 comes from flying. The Junior minister who recently had a go at airlines probably got into his polluting ministerial car to drive home after putting his foot into his mouth.