milkeybar kid Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Please is there a kind person out there who could advise our friends- (sadly they speak little or no French -even worse they do not have a computer[8-)]!!Buyer agrees price. First signing OK.,On the 11 April at Notaire ( Notaire is actig for both. Notaire is also acting "power of attorney to sign" on behalf of purchaser who cant be there).The estate agent is also present.They ask for signatures .They sign .They are informed by the estate agent after signing in front of notaire that they have received a fax to say the money is on it's way.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!All signatures completed.Today the 17th the money has still not arrived from the would be purchaser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!What can they do????????Are they ( our friends) now entitled to the ten thousand euro deposit, because the proposed buyer failed to come up with money?Is there a legal law that says a time the money should arrive ?Threy are frightened that they have signed away the house for no money.They are frantic with worry .[:(]How do they proceed?Thank you .Mrs MBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ask the Notaire???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkeybar kid Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 yes Ron, they have asked the notaire , all but set up camp on the steps. He just repeats that it will arrive soon, he got very shirty!! after 3rd visit.Just managed to contact a French friend ex estate agent ,who says its illegal for a notaire to continue with a signing if the money was not sent prior , usuall 4 days in the notaires account so as to pay taxes etc, and only then can the money be passed on. They have just returned from another trip to estate agent they wanted to see dossiere that had the fax that said money was on its way, but surprise , surprise it was taken home by estate agent and not brought back . Do u think the estae agent is using the money for awhile? its getting scary[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I'm sure I'm not the the only one who only just managed to get the money for our purchase to the notaire on time. It was made very clear to us that nothing could be signed without it.I'm not surprised that your friends are worried.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I have bought and sold four times, and each time I bought I had to pay in advance into the Notaire's account.Once it was a long time getting the money out of him for a sale, but I can only say that in my experience in France it all goes OK in the end.Bon Courage for your friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Like others, I think this is very suspicious. The funds should be in the notaire's account at the signing. When we bought, the cheque for the balance was handed over on the spot to the sellers, and we believed this was normal practice.I would complain to the Notaire's own association, I smell a rat here:http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/notaires.nsf/V_TC_PUB/CLAIMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 [quote user="cooperlola"]Like others, I think this is very suspicious. The funds should be in the notaire's account at the signing. When we bought, the cheque for the balance was handed over on the spot to the sellers, and we believed this was normal practice.I would complain to the Notaire's own association, I smell a rat here:http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/notaires.nsf/V_TC_PUB/CLAIMS[/quote]Not necessarily normal practice to hand over the money on the spot.It can happen but the Notaire can hang on to the money for a long time ( about 2 months I believe) and some of them top up their earnings with the interest accrued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Thanks, Norman (obviously our Notaire was no crook, anyway!) Whatever, it seems to me that no Notaire should be accepting a "fax" to say that they funds are "on their way" as good enough evidence to let a sale go through and the documents be signed. He should surely be in possession of the money - whatever he is doing with it in the meantime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose (& Greyman) Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I don't think the problem is with the Notaire releasing the funds it's that he says he hasn't received it but still signed the papers. That shouldn't have happened.The good news is that the worse that can happen is the sale isn't valid - a contract is only complete when both parties carry out their side of the bargain. If the money doesn't arrive then no sale. Your friends may be entitled to compensation.On a positive note it may just be a mess-up. Funds sent on Friday 11th (after banking deadline) so only in fact 4 working days in the system. Could well arrive tomorrow.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Who has the keys to this house them , or the new (tobe ) owners ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkeybar kid Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 The Notaire that acted on behalf of the buyer now has the keys as he did the signing as proxy, also he was our friends Notaire.[:(]I have just phoned her withh all these replies, thank you so much. She thinks they can now sleep tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastines Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 On selling our 3rd house here,the buyer proceeded to write a cheque for the completion total. The Notaire refused to accept it as has always been understood by us on buying,the money has to be in the Notaires account BEFORE the completion even when paying by bankers draft. On 2 occasions the seller was actually given their cheque while we were still in the office. They do tend to be a law unto themselves though.Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-D de Rouffignac Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Do not rush to the conclusion that there is anything unusual, illegal, suspicious or dodgy going on here. If the money from the purchaser has not arrived, the notaire may well suggest that the vendors present sign the final act, which will be countersigned, by the buyers or their power of attorney (usually a clerk of the notaire, rather than the notaire him/herself) and then dated (and become legal) when the money finally arrives. I had precisely this situation earlier this week, with all parties present, and the purchase money had not at that point arrived. We were all happy to sign the relevant documents, but not date them nor hand over keys. In the event, about an hour into the signing process, the notaire checked again and the money had duly arrived (transferred the previous Thursday from a French bank but delayed over the weekend). Regarding money received from the purchaser and due to be handed over to the vendor, this might be delayed slightly due to the requirement to settle taxes, apportion between several owners, pay off a loan or mortgage etc. Once again this is normal practice and not designed to make life difficult. I have on two occasions got a cheque the same day and on another left the money in the notaire's secure account against the purchase of the property I was buying on completion of the sale of the first. It is a question of understanding the system or being accompanied by someone who does. P-D de Rouffignacwww.francemediterraneanproperty.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 From what little I know about the system, through being married to somebody who knows it very well, I would agree with P-D that this is not necessarily 'dodgy' and not at all unusual. If the notaire (who is an independent representative of the state, rather than acting for either buyer or seller) is satisfied that the money is on its way, he will usually do exactly what P-D describes.It is not unusual for the transfer to take some time between leaving the buyer's account and the cleared funds ariving in the notaire's account. I'm not saying that curency exchange companies are any worse than banks, but when they are involved it does seem that the delays can more often be longer than expected. Things seem to be made more complicated in that notaires' accounts are at the Trésor Public rather than at a high-street bank, which can (though it should not) make transfers more difficult - I was told by an English bank manager that English banks have arrangements with corresponding French banks but not the Trésor Public, so often, for convenience, money goes between banks, then to the Trésor public, which potentially adds a day or two. He advised taking a euro bank draft personally to the signing - but then he had a vested interest.However, as in this case there is apparently no sign of the money a week after the signing, I think it should ring alarm bells. In the similar situations I have heard of, the money usually appears either, literally, at the last minute or the next day.In a situation where the seller needs the money immediately after the signing, it is always best to make this clear in good time before the signing. Then the notaire can calculate all taxes etc in advance, and liaise with the buyer and agents to make sure that the money is received in good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Janet Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 When we bought our present house (privately) we were most embarrassed to find ourselves sitting in the notaire's office on the great day of signing l'acte (ie completion) only to discover that Lloyds in UK had not transferred the money in time! We were given two options: sign but not date the paperwork or go away and make another appointment when the funds arrived. We all signed and then went home with red faces - and no keys!!! It was a further couple of days before the money arrived and we just had to go back and pick up the keys and copies of the attestation (proof of ownership). So these things happen and as someone else said, things in France seems to work out right in the end. Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 My notaire is meticulous. He has to be as not only does he lecture to aspiring notaires at Poitiers Uni, but he is also the notaire's judge. I asked him about this money business yesterday and he said that he would have been very uncomfortable permitting the signing of anything unless the money was already there and counted. It is not illegal but it is very close to the line. That being said, he did understand that the electronic transfer of money is subject to gremlins, mice, greedy or incompetent banks as well as trees on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkeybar kid Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 Conclusion-:[:D]They camped again at the Notaires Friday afternoon , at 3.30 he allowed them in and gave them the cheque and told them to get out! They see that the cheque was signed by the notaire it had the date of April11 crossed out and initialed and 18th April put on!They still have had no paperwork from the Notaire, not even for the termite inspection. They went back to estate agent who speaks English and asked for a written paper to say this money was for the conclusion of the sale and have asked for an itemized bill as they have had no paperwork from estate agent either as of yet. They are not sure what paperwork to expect but feel there should be something. They phoned direct to the termite inspector to ask what he charged - to see if it tallied - it did he charged 650 Euro for a 2 bedroom 3 floor village house , yet her parents 5 bedroom house (enormous in comparison) was charged only 450 Euro. They have now learned theat there is no fixed price for termite inspection , so be aware - shop around!! mother and daughter ask me to say thank you again, they are just so relieved and weary they cant be bothered to complain. [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Actually, they should have had the Diagnostique long ago as they paid for it, I think. Something rotten there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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