Do you speak French?

[GRT17]

Oui !

If you are able to have interesting and lively conversations with your French friends in French and communicate well on the phone then you are doing O.K. I think you can be classed as reasonably fluent once you are able to understand the radio, T.V. and follow a French film at the cinema without too much effort. 

Gill.

 

[Mistral]

I do get fed up when I go to M do's  with my kids ,give my order in French with English accent and they get it wrong.

Don't worry. This even happens to my husband (without the English accent part)

I know that I have asked correctly...but I do think they expect me to get it wrong and then they get it wrong...if that makes sense.

Totally.

 

[Tourangelle]

[quote]I do get fed up when I go to M do's with my kids ,give my order in French with English accent and they get it wrong. I know that I have asked correctly...but I do think they expect me to get it wron...[/quote]

Perhaps you speak better French than they do? The other day I rang up a company to arrange a delivery time for a parcel. When I rang up, I had to repeat myself several times, the person I spoke to had problems understanding my building number (it is in the 100s) and my husband's name, which is a very typical standard French one!

[Gooliegumdrop]

[quote]Oui ! If you are able to have interesting and lively conversations with your French friends in French and communicate well on the phone then you are doing O.K. I think you can be classed as reasona...[/quote]

Yes, I think this is the best you can hope for. One has to accept that it will never be like one's mother tongue. But if you can hold a fluid conversation, and understand the TV, telephone etc., then job done - you can speak fluent French. It's defining 'fluent' that's the problem!

Julie.

[chicfille]

It's defining 'fluent' that's the problem!

Absolutely! In the course of my work I evaluate candidates for companies who wish to recruit English-speaking employees. Some who claim to be fluent because they have studied English for years are in fact far from it, whilst others who simply claim a working knowledge are far better at actually expressing themselves. What makes the difference isn't years of study but time spent living/working in English-speaking countries.

Which is exactly what personal experience taught me - I arrived here as a student thinking I'd be fine, and quickly realised that my grammatically correct university French got me nowhere in conversations with the locals, and it was only after a few years of living, studying and working here for (marrying one of them along the way) that I finally got rid of my anglicisms and accent and became properly fluent.

[Christine Animal]

I tried to post this last night, but it got lost in an Application Error  

Perhaps being more or less "fluent" is when you start to think in French, instead of translating from English, when you just open your mouth and it comes out... in French.

[GRT17]

Yes, I would agree with that Christine. Add to that being able to switch back and forth from one language to the other without too much thought, again the "thinking" in the language idea.

Gill

[Tourangelle]

I am always a little ill at ease when people ask me what language I think in, I'm not aware that I particulary think in a language unless I am writing something or I want to chose my words carefully. Then again, it has been many years since I have had to think out sentences in my head in French. I don't think out my sentences any more in French than I do in English, speaking in French is just an adjustment I make, like whether I am saying vous or tu, or whether I am having to speak up to an old person, or whether I am having to be careful what I am saying in English because I am speaking to a class full of learners. So I kind of agree with Gill (interpreting a bit), it is really about NOT thinking!

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

I personally think that the top top top surefire way to see if you are 'seriously fluent' is when you get Christine's impenetrable (albeit delightful) bilingual play on words straight away. Well, I'm not fluent just but I'm getting there, encore un petit effort. We need more of them tronche de cake' types Christine ! (honestly, where do you get them ? Local boozer ? Les Grosses Têtes ? Restos du Coeur ?)

[Mistral]

I am always a little ill at ease when people ask me what language I think in, I'm not aware that I particulary think in a language unless I am writing something or I want to chose my words carefully

When I get asked that I reply that while talking in French I think in French, and while talking in English I think in English. I just hope no-one asks me what language I think in when I'm alone (no idea) or at the table with both kids (I speak to them in english) and husband (we talk in French) or while watching TV in French and reading in English at the same time.

[Sue56]

Do I speak French - to a fashion.  Understood by my neighbours, shop/bank assistant - Yes.  Am I fluent - by no means!   My OU tutor remarked that my vocab was good but I sounded English.  At first I was really gutted but afterwards thought about my French friend in England who speaks what I would call fluent English but with a French accent, no getting away from it.  Well if I can speak and be understood as good as her but in French then I'm not going to worry about an English accent.

With regards to thinking in languages - if I am speaking French then I possibly fleetingly thinking in English but mostly French.  When my neighbour was speaking I was translating for my husband - I knew what the neighbour was saying straightaway but putting it into English for my husband was the diffiucult part because then I was making a conscious effort to translate.

Also, if I come into contact with anyone who speaks a language other than English I automatically think in French.  In my Spanish class the words I didn't know in Spanish I filled in with French without realising it! Very confusing for my tutor and fellow students....

Sue

[Teamedup]

Sue56, accents are quite something else. I try, I try and try and try and I still can't rid myself of it. Husband hasn't got an english one, and people don't think he is english, but don't know where he is from.

 

Go to Quebec, the french there is so odd that they thought I was french........... believe me there is no mistaking my 'english' accent.

[Miki]

I have to say, that the more we think we know French language and the more years we speak it, the more we realise just how much more perhaps we have to learn.

For instance our 2 youngest kids are as fluent as their French counterparts and as TU states, and can be the case around here especially (Saint Malo and Quebec have a tie through Jacques Cartier)they are taken often for Quebecois or Alsace, never English, whereas, Tina and I are spotted as being foreigners almost all the time !

As for thinking and dreaming, never thought about, I think I am the same as others here, whatever the language, the image appears of the object or whatever.

[Graham & Brenda]

Had a follow up 'phone call from someone today. I'm sure she said did you get our letter so I said yes and assumed it was the bank that was touting for English customers. She seemed very surprised when I said I was quite happy with my bank so we started over again and it turned out that her firm deliver frozen food - so I thanked her and said no thanks.

So, I got there in the end and I think that's what matters. However, re accents the same can apply to pronunciation. I mis-pronounced Auto Rail and my neighbour who knows me well couldn't undestand until I put it another way and said we put the car on the train. I agree with Miki, there is so much to learn - but it is satisfying when you do succeed.

Graham

[Coco]

You're right Margaret, it is so subjective.  I've met several people who are arrogant enough to say they are fluent in French and they are, well, in a word C**p!!!  I have never felt able to say that I am even good but my French neighbours say I'm fluent.  Oh no I'm not!!  It seems to me, the longer I live here and the more French I learn, the more I realise I don't know.  But SB is right.  You only need to know the vocabulary that is pertinent to you.  There are lots of words in the English language that I don't understand.

I was very happy with myself the other day when I accompanied some English friends to the notaires because they were selling half their house to some friends and were setting up a company to do it.  They asked me along to translate and I was a little worried that I would make a fool of myself.  However, I surprised myself in how few times I had to ask the notaire to repeat something and even managed, after listening to him, to explain the whole system to my friends.  I even ended up being the "gerant" (is that right?) of their new company!  And of course, right at the end of the 2 and a half hour meeting, the notaire spoke to me in ENGLISH!!!

[Jc]

It's the Dutch that amaze me;they all seem to be fluent in five languages and switch effortlessly between them.

[Gooliegumdrop]

[quote]It's the Dutch that amaze me;they all seem to be fluent in five languages and switch effortlessly between them.[/quote]

I wouldn't have said five, but they are of course mostly fluent in English.

When I was on holiday on the West coast of France last year, I found myself having to interpret (French-English) on behalf of many a Dutch camping neighbour, most of whom were quite disgruntled by the fact that they had gone to all the trouble of learning this great global language (English), and the French refused to speak it to them!

[letrangere]

Odd that you mention them, JC, for the lady I refer to earlier being oh so modest about her spoken French is Dutch.  Despite the merest hint of an accent (if you listen hard), her spoken English is as good as mine and her written ability far superior to that of most native speakers.  In addition, she has impressive German and passable Italian, so I suppose that's five.  To say I'm envious is putting it mildly!  M

[Jc]

Probably some Danish and a little Flemish as well;even a smattering of Swedish and Norwegian.What really annoys me in France is going into a restaurant,ordering something on the carte,getting a blank look from the waiter and then pointing to to the item on the carte and the waiter then repeats the item apparently identically to your pronunciation.

[Fantine<br><br><br><br>Susie]

Coco wrote "I have never felt able to say that I am even good but my French neighbours say I'm fluent. Oh no I'm not!! It seems to me, the longer I live here and the more French I learn, the more I realise I don't know. But SB is right. You only need to know the vocabulary that is pertinent to you. There are lots of words in the English language that I don't understand."

I feel exactly the same. My French tutor (GRETA) seems to think I'm advanced, and I'm Vice-President of the Amicale Laique, and sat through a 3 and a half hour meeting last week, of which I understood almost everything that was being said and put in my 2 penneth worth on a few occasions. Although I know my vocabulary is still lacking and I know a lot of the technical stuff, I still get tongue tied when in conversation with friends or neighbours. It's like my brain can't compute quickly enough, yet after I've walked away from the situation, my head is spinning with 'I could have said this, or that'! Maybe it the age thing. It's so frustrating, but enjoyable at the same time - I only wish I had got into languages earlier as the more I learn the more I love them.