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As a tutor of Modern Foreign Languages myself,  I have had access to, and opportunity to review many commercially available courses and resources. Personally, I would not recommend that you spend so much on a single course. Not because I feel that there's anything wrong with them, but I think you can get much better value by investing in a cheaper course such as Breakthrough French by Stephanie Rybak (available for £27 from Amazon), or if you a complete beginner I would recommend BBC's Talk French (also available from Amazon for £9). Remember that NO single resource will in itself lead to advanced profiency (regardless of what the marketing 'blurb' might tell you) And, if you were thinking of investing a couple of hundred pounds or more, you would do as well to enrol in an adult evening class where you will hopefully receive much better 'hands on' tuition and practice. I would also suggest that you make use of your local library where you should be able to hire a great range of materials including the above mentioned courses, as well as Michel Thomas and even Linguaphone. Anyway, that's just my view - 'hope it helps. Julie.    

You might find the following site useful  www.sharedtalk.com . Also, an evening class or joining a local twinning association (provided the twinned town is French of course!) can be really beneficial. Julie.

Hi Rosie There is also 'Le Club Français' who I think are similiar to 'La Jolie Ronde'. As far as Muzzy goes, I bought this for my children a couple of years ago. I am a languages tutor, but thought this might be useful way for them to absorb some of the language passively. Although the method is quite unique, the amount and quality of the materials you get is definitely not worth the money. Your children also have to be 'willing' to watch it. My son, aged 7 at the time, was up for it. However, my elder daughter was much less interested. So, off to eBay our Muzzy was sent. But, Muzzy was highly sort after and was actually sold for only £2 pounds less than I'd riginally paid for it! Do you know any French yourself? Practising words such as numbers and colours together helps keep an interest going. Games could include games of French bingo, or word games where each of you in turn gives a word in English for the next person to translate into French. Again, this can be done with 'categories' of words such as: animals, days of the week, fruit and vegetables etc. You might find 'The Usborne Book of Everyday Words in French' or 'Usborne Beginner's French Dictionary' useful for these kinds of activities. Julie.

Hi Brian I am a Modern Foreign Languages Tutor who tutors both in a private capacity and in further and adult education. My advice to you would be, if you could possibly afford it, pay for private tuition. I know that this can be a comparatively expensive option, and it can often be difficult to locate a qualified tutor. However, an experienced tutor would be able to plan and deliver lessons to your exact level and ability, would be able to do more focused work concentrating on your weaknesses, boost your confidence, and hopefully put you back on the right track. Learners who come to me privately usually do have different needs and reasons for learning than those attending classes. They are quite often foreign property owners, and so their desire to learn a language becomes less of a 'leisure' activity and more of a necessity. Many of my private students have previously tried adult or further education classes, but found that they weren't for them for whatever reason. Anyway, whatever you decide try not to become disheartened. Focus on what you have achieved (however small) and what you can do, rather than on what you can't. If you stick at it you WILL make progress. I think it would be a good idea for you both to start again with the basics (view this as revision rather than regression). I would recommend BBCs Talk French with accompanying audio for this. Perhaps trying to work together for 30 mins daily if possible. After this, I would suggest Breakthrough French (Palgrave Macmillan) for self-study. Other courses such as Voila and The French Experience are, in my opinion, more suitable for class or tutor accompanied study. Other beginning learners have rated Michel Thomas (although I personally am not a huge fan!). If you don't already have a copy of his audio course I would recommend that you try to borrow one from your local library first, as his teaching style and heavy German accent are not for everyone! Good luck! Julie.  

Hi Donna Have you tried the Institute of Linguists' directory for details of language tutors available in your area? http://www.iol.org.uk/linguist/tutor1.asp While you are in the UK, I don't think you will have any other option but to hire a private tutor for extra curricular language tuition. (Be prepared to pay £15-£20 upwards per hour).   Julie www.francoservices.com    

[quote]Just out of interest, how much is each course for someone resident in France? Also, is it possible to do A level French from France?[/quote] You can still do OU courses even if you are based outside the UK, but I think you have to pay a lot more on account of the government being unable to subsidize learning for non-UK residents. So the OU would have to charge you extra to compensate the amount they lose in government funding. I've heard that the fees are about double for overseas students, but I don't know for sure - you would need to check this directly with the University. However, there is an online version of L120 which is ideal for people located abroad or who are unable to attend tutorials in person. I'm not sure about doing an A-level, but there are a multitude of correspondance courses available. Try the Learn Direct website http://www.learndirect-advice.co.uk/ for more information. However, I suspect that you will still encounter the same problem with regard to cost and government funding if you are not resident in the UK. Julie.  

[quote]Hi Malcolm-Thanks for advice/encouragement. I probably didn't ask my tutor enough advice whilst doing L120 - a bit too independant at times, for what good it did me!! As a tutor - would you be able ...[/quote] Hi Again Sue While you are waiting for Malcolm or other OU staff member to answer your question, allow me to add my 2 eurocents worth! As far as I know (please Malcolm or other person 'in the know' correct me if I'm wrong) L120 is set at about A-level standard. It is designed to take you to level 2 which is undergraduate level. Certainly if you compare the content of L120 with the A-level syllabus, the content is very similar (both in topics covered and level). In my opinion Sue, I don't think you would have much to gain by sitting an A-level before going on to L211. I think you would just be covering old ground. However, it might of course be useful revision and consolidation for you. But then you could do this by revising your L120 course materials and/or dipping into one of the commercially available 'off the shelf' language courses such as 'French Experience 2' or 'Breakthrough French 2 & 3'. It seems that you may be lacking confidence in your skills, so maybe passing an A-level on top of L120 would boost your confidence levels. But, the other side of the coin could be that whatever course you decide to follow in order to gain an A-level may not present the same standard of teaching, support etc. that you have come to expect from the OU, and could therefore ultimately destroy your confidence. Finally, a point worth mentioning - on every language course I've studied with the OU there always appears to be a wide range of abilities. Some students appear completely fluent, whilst others definitely struggle much more than their peers. But, if you look at the course results, you will see that over 90% of those who complete L120, L211 or L310 obtain a pass. (See issue 226 of Sesame for 2004's course results.) So statistically you stand a very good chance of succeeding in L211 so long as you stay the distance. Again, I hope my waffle helps you to decide. Bonne chance! Julie.  

[quote]It's the Dutch that amaze me;they all seem to be fluent in five languages and switch effortlessly between them.[/quote] I wouldn't have said five, but they are of course mostly fluent in English. When I was on holiday on the West coast of France last year, I found myself having to interpret (French-English) on behalf of many a Dutch camping neighbour, most of whom were quite disgruntled by the fact that they had gone to all the trouble of learning this great global language (English), and the French refused to speak it to them!

[quote]Oui ! If you are able to have interesting and lively conversations with your French friends in French and communicate well on the phone then you are doing O.K. I think you can be classed as reasona...[/quote] Yes, I think this is the best you can hope for. One has to accept that it will never be like one's mother tongue. But if you can hold a fluid conversation, and understand the TV, telephone etc., then job done - you can speak fluent French. It's defining 'fluent' that's the problem! Julie.

OK, This is how I remember OU level 2 French. Study time - 15 hours/week. Of course this may vary depending on your present level and abilities, but I think whatever, you have to be prepared to commit at least 10 hours (although probably more) per week. TMAs consist of a longer word length than those of L120 (between 400-600 words, I think), and spoken assessments of about 4 minutes. Personally I found the longer word length of written assessments less restricting and therefore easier. But, admit that the longer oral assessments can take quite a lot of planning. L211 also has the residential school, which many past students quote as being a very worthwhile and beneficial experience. As far as the course structure goes, I think you will find the general outlay similar to L120, with a focus on listening to, and reading authentic material, and quite a lot of grammar to be had along the way. I think the main difference is in the topics covered, with more emphasis on French society, politics, culture, arts etc. However, they save the really good stuff for level 3! I think the main challenge you're faced with when moving to level 2, is the exam. The oral is similar to the L120 ECA oral, but you will have to give a longer presentation (of 4 mins if I remember correctly) on a slighty more challenging topic. You will be sent details beforehand, so will have the opportunity to do some preparation at home, but could be given any 1 of 4 topics on the day. As with L120, you will be in a room with up to 3 other students each giving your presentation in turn and then a group discussion of a further 8 minutes. There is NO opportunity for a 'virtual' online version of this - you will have to attend in person. The written part of the exam, held on the same day as the oral, is similar to a TMA, but you will obviously have a time limit. Again, if I remember correctly, it's approx 450 words in 2.5 hours. For me personally, the daunting oral exam component was the worst thing about studying both level 2 and 3. If you have successfully completed L120, then I don't see any reason why you won't succeed in L211. Yes, of course it is more difficult, but that is the whole point - it's called progression! Finally, I feel that if you do decide to do L211, then you should also consider doing L310, as the two complement each other and make up the Diploma in French - a  degree level qualification. I feel the qualification itself (as well as the sense of achievement) is probably the main reason for studying at this level. Let's face it, study at this level goes way beyond simple conversation or 'getting by' skills. 'Hope my lengthy ramble helps you to come to a decision. Julie www.francoservices.com    

Up until now I had never heard of this program, but it seems to me that it uses some kind of machine translation which DOESN'T work. So personally, I wouldn't touch it. As of yet machine translation software can only effectively translate very basic sentence structures, so they really are a waste of time. As a translator myself, I can tell you that human translators are still very much in demand, and as yet have nothing to fear from such software. (Of course, this may not always be the case - but for now our jobs are safe!). The fact is that you risk a very high percentage of mistranslations from such software, so I can only assume that most of what you will be learning will be senseless gobbledegook. I personally feel that this program may be potentially harmful to the language learner, and feel you would be better off nvesting the money in one of the more renowned language programs commercially available. Finally, despite what many language courses claim, for most of us there really is no fast and easy way to become proficient in a foreign language. It takes a massive amount of motivation, many hours of study and practice, and a lot of perseverence and hard work. You may be an exception, however, if you're 5 years old or happen to have a record breaking IQ. Basically, if it sounds too good to be true - it is! Julie.    

Well I'd just like to add another view to this discussion and redress the balance a little. I am unable to personally comment on any experience of studying the Open University's L192 French Beginners course (as I have only seen a copy of it, not actually studied it)   http://www3.open.ac.uk/courses/bin/p12.dll?C02L192 But, I did do their French courses at level 2 & 3 in order to gain a Diploma in French, as well as a couple of their Spanish courses, and found them all excellent. It is fair to say, however, that I already had a reasonable proficiency in French due to having spent some years living in the country (so may have found them more worthwhile than some other people). Anyway, on a personal level, I have always found the Open University and their courses top class and excellent value for money. However, I note that the beginners level language courses in all of French, Spanish and German have a high drop-out rate of nearly 50%, so they are obviously not suited to everyone! The OU is renowned for its specialization in autonomous distance learning - this approach may, of course, be unsuitable for some. It should also be remembered that the OU's beginners' level language courses are meant to take the learner from zero to approximately GCSE level in less than a year - no mean feat, there is a lot of work involved! In this discussion, one of the reasons for dropping out was cited as there being 'not enough grammar', yet L192 is a beginner's level course. So, would a lot of complex grammar be appropriate at this level? There is much more to language than just grammar, and I personally feel that any good course should focus on the four skills of reading, writing, speaking and listening - which L192 does. As for the assignments often being in the form of a 'questionnaire', again I would like to reiterate that L192 is a beginners course. Would having to write long essays be appropriate at this level? There is plenty of chance for essay writing in the follow on course L120, which by the way, covers quite a large amount of grammar. With regard to the OU tutors, I have always found them all to be extremely efficient, helpful and very dedicated towards their students, so think it is indeed unfortunate that one of the posters here has had a bad experience in that respect. But I would urge that they take this up with their OU regional centre, as any poor service is, of course, unacceptable. Finally, I have signed up to this year's L193 beginners German. My course materials arrived a week or so ago, and I couldn't wait to get 'stuck into them'. So far, I have found the materials brilliant. A great deal of preparation was obviously put into them when they were compiled, as they are up to date and very much based on current language learning trends. I am as yet to meet my tutor as the course doesn't officially start until November, but I expect that he or she will demonstate the usual enthusiam and professionalism that I have encountered from my OU tutors so far. Congratulations to those forum readers who have completed L192. Believe me, even with a lower grade, the sense of achievement you will feel when you receive your results in December, will make it all worthwhile! Julie www.francoservices.com  

[quote]You should still send EVERYTHING recorded delivery otherwise they will deny receiving anything!![/quote] Yes, unfortunately correspondence does have a tendency for disappearing into the unknown! I wonder if it's the mysterious disappearance of paperwork that has inevitably led to the creation of such an extensive bureaucratic and administration system in France, or whether they require such a system because so much of it goes missing! Julie.

Another suggestion would be to draft a letter using the correct formal layout etc, and then to fax a copy before posting. Most Mairie's offices are able to accept faxes via their telephone line (if they don't have a separate number.) When the letter from the UK arrives a few days later this can serve as a reminder without appearing pushy. In my experience, many of the smaller French companies and organisations have a tendency to ignore emails, whereas the larger ones like EDF etc., do usually reply within a few days. Unfortunately, denial of telephone calls received appears to be common place, especially if someone else is mediating on your behalf. (This has frequently happened to me when I've telephoned on behalf of my clients.) So, I would definitely advise putting urgent and important queries in writing. Julie www.francoservices.com      

''I only received the magazine, no accompanying tape or CD but would be interested to hear how they interacted.  M''   Well, basically the audio is simply a narration, by a clear-spoken native speaker, of the written text. The interviews however, appeared to be authentic (i.e. interviewer v interviewee). Therefore, I feel that the accompanying audio is definitely very useful for improving listening skills, and would recommended the CD. The audio cassette sample that I listened to was annoyingly, a little 'scratchy' (as cassettes tend to be). Julie.  

I have compiled a list of French language learning magazines which may come as a welcome change to conventional textbooks etc. Most are available with accompanying audio on CD or cassette and are currently available on subscription. Although many claim to be suitable for higher beginners, I personally feel that unless you are already at a reasonably advanced level, you may find the content of them quite heavy going.   Champs-Elysees Magazine  www.champs-elysees.com This one is probably the most recognized on account of its high profile marketing campaign. I would however suggest that this magazine focuses mostly on French arts and culture, so if these are not of much interest to you, you will perhaps find the content a little tedious.   Bien Dire www.learningfrench.com/site_bien_dire/homepage.htm Sorry, I am unable to review this one as I have never seen a copy.   Cascade www.authentik.com/new_products/cascade.asp Again, I have not seen this one, so I cannot comment. It does, however, claim to be at beginner’s level.   Le Rendez-Vous Français  &  La Vie Outre-Manche (both from Concorde Publications) www.concordefrench.com I was recently sent samples of these, and I have to say that I found the content excellent, with a wide and varied range of interesting topics covered. Le Rendez-vous français claims to be aimed at a lower level than La vie outre-manche, but in my opinion, neither would be beneficial unless your French is relatively progressed.   Salut France Magazine www.salutfrancemagazine.co.uk Although I have never seen an actual copy of this magazine, there are some free samples with audio available on the website. It seems to offer a varied content using nice, clear language.    Fluent French Audio http://store.yahoo.com/fluent-french-audio/subop.html This is (again, in my humble opinion), another good one. There is a wide variety of topics covered in the magazine articles, and the novel thing about this one is that the audio is available at a slowed down, as well as a natural speed. Good value.   Le Français dans le Monde www.fdlm.org This magazine, published in Paris, is aimed at non-native francophones. You would therefore need to be quite proficient in the language in order to get through it. It doesn’t come with an audio back-up, but covers quite a variety of topics. There are many sample a

''The problem is that mentally we want to be 100% - perfectly fluent, no mistakes - speak it just like we do English.  Most of the time 50% is more than enough and if you are prepared to stive to always improve, that is a very good basis.  In fact most of will never speak a foreign language as we do English since we have come to learn too late and will be constantly translating rather than speaking and thinking totally in French.''   Well said Andy. This is a very valid point. As an adult you are never going to have the same command of a second language as you do your mother tongue. Of course, this doesn't mean that you can't achieve a perfectly functional working fluency in the language. But, the sooner the learner stops comparing his foreign language skills to those of his native language the better. Just because you have an English accent, make grammar mistakes, or have used the odd 'unconventional' phrase doesn't mean that you cannot communicate effectively. Constantly punishing oneself for imperfections will serve only in lowering confidence, thus severely hindering the learning process. Julie www.francoservices.com  

Paul, Are you telling me that they have 'British' tills in French supermarkets now?   Wow! Unbelievable! When I was living in 24 in the early nineties, I would come across many a Brit who had been living in France for years and managed to get by, even ran successful businesses on a very limited vocabulary of around 50 words (and a good percentage of these would be obscenities!). But I have to say that I never met anyone, no matter how bad their language skills, that point blank refused to even give the lingo a try. Absolutely no offence intended, but exactly why is your mother-in-law living in a foreign country?? How does she get through day-to-day life? Julie.

''My mother-in-law has been resident in France for a little over a year and when we visited last year she went to the local village shop with my wife for some bread and then wouldn't even get out of the car.  Since then she has said she won't speak french until she has mastered it but as she never practises what she learns or studies we feel she either is already or soon will be "Frogaphobic".'' Yes, you are right. She will never 'master' it if she refuses to use it! It seems to me that she needs a confidence booster. Are there no French classes available in her local community? This may help her to break the cycle of refusing to speak French in public.   In response to bizzyliz's posting, the Hugo Advanced French mentioned is still available to buy. Hugo Advanced French (+ audio CDs), Dorling Kindersley 2004, ISBN: 1405304855, RRP £25.00 (although is available on Amazon for £17.50). I remember using an earlier version of this course, and if I remember correctly, it was a great reading course backed up with plenty of explanatory notes and audio dialogues. However, there was little in the way of speaking exercises. But this may not be a priority for those already based in France since you may be getting plenty of practice by speaking French on a daily basis anyway. Julie www.francoservices.com        

''I have not used 'Breakthrough French' but have read good reviews of it. I have some students who are approaching the end of 'French Experience 2' and was wondering if 'Breakthrough French 3' would be a good follow-on course.''     Personally, I wouldn’t have said that Breakthrough 3 is at a particularly higher level than French Experience 2, since the French Experience series are more comprehensive than the Breakthrough series (the 2 books being roughly equivalent in content to the 3). However, I wouldn’t suggest that it were a complete waste of time to follow on from FE2 with B3. Even if nothing new as such is learned, it is still good speaking, listening and revision practice. Likewise, you could go from B3 to FE2 and still probably gain something, even if it were just practice.   Unfortunately, there appears to be a gap in the market for higher-advanced level materials (please post if you know otherwise), and so comprehensive grammar resources seem to be the only option. These of course do not offer much in the way of speaking and listening. I note from reading other posts that many people have chosen to do level 2 and 3 Open University courses www.open.ac.uk . I am currently doing the German versions myself, and have to say that these are outstanding. They are of course not a cheap option, and I believe if you are based outside of the UK the fees are higher still, since you lose the government’s contribution towards the cost. It is also possible to obtain materials second-hand (from eBay or also try www.universitybooksearch.co.uk ) but these, of course, are in limited supply.   Julie . www.francoservices.com    

''The answer is "Back to basics" and crack on with some good old fashioned but vital grammar. And insist on having this explained in English - total target language teaching is not the most effective method for the average adult Anglophone. If after a course of lessons, you still haven't got a handle on your French DON'T think it's your fault - rather the teaching methods aren't suited to you.''   I couldn't agree more Quantum. Grammar is vital to second language acquisition (as an adult). With the correct teaching methods, this need not be as ominous as it first seems. Julie www.francoservices.com  

''I do believe that confidence is the one really important factor, which is very difficult to achieve from home study methods unless you have a particularly oversized ego that will withstand being knocked for six the first time you try it out. '' Of course you are absolutely right. Confidence is probably the single most important factor in learning a second language (as an adult). A good tutor would instinctively try to instill confidence in his/her students by using good teaching methods. I am forgetting that many self-study courses by their very nature can have an adverse effect on the student. 'Why can't I get to grips with Unit 4 even though the presenter is telling me it is perfectly simple?' On that point if Michel Thomas has managed to convey something in his courses that others have overlooked or failed to do, then I fully retract my criticisms and highly commend him on that ability. Julie www.francoservices.com    

Yes, I knew I would be courting controversy with my review of the Michel Thomas course. And fair enough, maybe my comments are a little on the harsh side; like I said, if the technique works for you, then great! Especially if it instills enough confidence in the learner to have a crack at using the language for real. It has to be remembered however, that no single language programme on its own is going to achieve miraculous results. I feel the marketing and hype associated with this course may lead the beginning learner to believe otherwise. However, a lot (if not most) of the people I know who have ever wanted to learn a language have tried Michel Thomas at some time or another. Indeed many have found aspects of the course very helpful, but non have advanced much beyond a basic level on the basis of this course alone. At the same time, there are others who found the content difficult to connect with, and therefore not appropriate for their needs. But of course, this could be said of any method, since what works for one learner may not work for another.

I have reviewed a few of the self–study French language courses currently available. These reviews are based purely on my own humble opinion; but I hope some of you might find the information useful all the same.     Talk French  Isabelle Fournier ·  Publisher: Hodder Arnold H&S, 2004 ·  ISBN: 0563471026 RRP. £14.99 The BBC ‘Talk’ series of language courses are brilliant for the absolute beginner. They make clear use of basic language, i.e. ‘Where can I find the library?’ or ‘Do you sell English newspapers?’ etc. It demonstrates how to use a very limited vocabulary in order to get by. Only very basic grammar is taught, so this short course is ideal for those with absolutely no previous knowledge of French. It is available on Amazon for under £10, making it excellent value. The only downside is the excitable and shrill (if not mind-numbingly grating) voice of the female presenter.   Voila: A Course in French for Adult Beginners   Crispin Geoghegan, J.Gonthier Geoghegan ·  Publisher: Hodder Arnold H&S, 2004 ·  ISBN: 0340883030 RRP. £32.99 This course is again good for beginners, but is more thorough than Talk French so should take you up to intermediate level. The audio recordings are clear and concise, and relative to everyday French life (including a section on motoring). However, the layout of this course is geared more towards classes than self-study, so you may find some of the grammar explanations bewildering at times.   Breakthrough French 1: Euro Edition   Stephanie Rybak ·  Publisher: Palgrave Macmillan, 2004 ·  ISBN: 1403942617 RRP £39.99 There is a lot of audio included in this course, making it excellent value for money. However, the dialogue (which claims to be authentic) comes at a rapid pace, with a mixed array of accents! Although there are some ‘practice exercises’ recorded at a more comfortable pace, thus making them more comprehensible! The grammar explanations given throughout are good and not too complex, and this course is definitely geared towards the self-study learner. There is also a Breakthrough French 2 & 3 available for more advanced learners, which also come highly recommended.     French Experience

Going off town names a bit, but still on pronunciation - I hate the way many English speakers (especially Americans) pronounce Moulin as in Moulin Rouge. If I hear one more 'moo-lon' I shall go     Now, Répète après moi; moo-lan, it's *** moo-lan, as in vin or pain www.francoservices.com