Disposal of human ashes

[mooky]

I am sure I have read somewhere that it is now unlawful to keep Urns with your loved ones ashes on the mantle-piece, or within the home.

How anyone knows if beyond me. Can anyone tell me if this is so. It would be recent legislation if it it. I have a friend who has several urns, and is a little worried.  

[Clair]

In French HERE

in Google English HERE

[Phil & Pat]

In France, the UK or elsewhere?

[zeb]

Suggests he/she digs a large hole, tips in the ashes and plants a tree ( or seperate holes/trees?)

Who will ever know?

[Pierre ZFP]

Why on earth would anyone want to legislate for this?? This has to be the ultimate victimless crime.  If the aim is to reduce funeral costs, surely there is room for an additional cost option of taking the ashes away? What concern is it of anyone?

Personally I would like to be cremated and my ashes scattered a sea, am I to assume that this would not be allowed if I shuffle off this mortal coil in France and get burnt there?

[odile]

how ridiculous, what his the ... point! but I am all in favour of stopping the rising costs of funerals , especially the pressure put on family to have expensive coffin, trimmings, etc - by funeral Directors- making you feel guilty if you chose simplicity.

In Switzerland they are discussing new legislation for cemeteries, as it has been found that modern bodies actually are very polluting- due to heavy medication, pace makers, radiography, chemo, etc - which all leave residues. I had never thought about it!

What is the situation in France with Natural Burial grounds, which are become much omore common, and popular, here in the UK?

A friend of mine who lives in the Swiss Valais, which is very Catholic - has actually converted to Catholicism so she can be buried in the local cemetery with her husband. As a non-believer, or even a protestant - she would have to be buried elsewhere! Bizarre!

[Âme]

It is a strange part of the legislation. I think it's unlawful rather than criminal to keep the ashes at home, but maybe you'd urn 10 years for possession of pot?! I can't see how it could possibly be imposed on existing ashes nor, in reality, on future ones since according to the article la dispersion dans la nature is permitted.

What's 'un site cinéraire' if it's not a garden of remembrance or a cemetery? And how does that cut the cost compared to the mantelpiece? Standardisation of costs across funeral parlours is a good thing.  After all, who gets three quotes when a loved one dies? But the ban on private cineraire and increase in public ones surely means it's a nice little earner for... the commune?

Nothing is sure but death and taxes, and more taxes upon death.

[odile]

LOL Ame!

[Âme]

[quote user="odile"]In Switzerland they are discussing new legislation for cemeteries, as it has been found that modern bodies actually are very polluting- due to heavy medication, pace makers, radiography, chemo, etc - which all leave residues. I had never thought about it!
[/quote]

Fascinating, I hadn't considered that, either.  The Dignitas effect, perhaps? [:-))]

I had thought cremation a waste of energy and resources, (soil enriching goodness!) but it may prove to be the more ecological solution.

[mooky]

Thank you for that. I have taken several funeral services at french crems. Then have sat for an hour whilst the cremation takes place and have then been given the ashes for the family. Can you imagine how awful it must be for say, a wife to have to sit and wait in the crem, hear all the furnance noises and then have the urn given to you. The family have often taken the remains back to uk. My one friend has three urns at home and finds comfort from them. The staff at Le Pyramid crem in Niort,are very courteous, but also very intrigued by the cremation culture of the uk residents. They try their hardest to accommodate someones wishes, but it is different. I wonder how they intend to police this;

My friends urns are very pretty, and are on the pine dresser. One is more likely to mistake them for a tea caddy.;;;I suppose that itself could cause a problem!!!!

[Âme]

[quote user="mooky"]

One is more likely to mistake them for a tea caddy.;;;I suppose that itself could cause a problem!!!![/quote]

Ew! [+o(]

[Chris]

I did hear of a divorce in England where the wife cited as mental cruelty her husband's habit of putting her mother's ashes in their pot in the bay window, then whistling 'abide with me' while opening and closing their rather posh curtains using the string and pulley mechanism she had insisted they needed.....[6]

[odile]

As you get to Cambridge on M11- there is one airport I'd never like to fly form or to! the sign says ' airport crematorium'.

does anybody know about Natural Burial grounds in France? It is a very good idea for all those of us who are not religious but who are interested in nature. Is it legal In France. Do they exist? A good business idea for someone with a meadow/wood? Good business in the UK + good 'natural/ funeral business (coffins, etc)

[mooky]

 "It is a very good idea for all those of us who are not religious but who are interested in nature."

Odile, even "religious" people like me think it's the best way forward, as we too are interested in nature. If you think about it. Many many graveyards both rural and suburban are wonderful nature reserves already. I think there will be a career to be made out of green funerals. I have looked into it here in France, but the powers that be seemed quite horrified. As in UK, eco funerals and weddings are now doing well. I don't think you can get a cardboard coffin in France yet. Certainly not in Chef Boutonne.

[Cat]

Cardboard coffins in France

[quote user="Clair"]Cardboard coffins,made in France: http://www.ca-cartonne.fr/modulosite2/fiche.php?id_bouton=5&id=749&fr=1

[/quote]

[Will]

Why should eco funerals only be for the non-religious?

[odile]

of course Will, you re quite right. It is just that here in the UK my local Natural Burial Ground tends to be used by non-religious people who don't want the hypocrisy of going to Church for the funeral + want a natural, non polluting kind a funeral- often with a lay person to officiate- usually a 'humanist' speaker'. I would be interested about what the law actually says about burial grounds in France- and if a Natural Burial company could buy land for that purpose as in the UK.

Again- I am not interested myself - but this is a really good business opportunity. I AM SURE.

[Judie]

I want to a cremation in Mayenne town today. Interestingly the family are calling back next week to bring home the ashes, so obviously the news hasn't filtered down yet.

[odile]

The total waste of funeral goods - silk liners - exotic woods straight from the rain forest, solid brass handles - huge plastic holders for the reefs- tons of flowers imported from who knows where. But people feel under huge pressure to spend, spend, spend - not just because of funeral directors, but by gossip and village culture. Shame really.

[Clair]

Clarification of the new law on the disposal of human ashes:

Cremation: What rules for the ashes?

(22/12/2008)

Regarding the cremation, it is forbidden to keep the urns at home,

even if the possibility of burying them in a property is being considered. It is possible to disperse the ashes in a garden of remembrance, a graveyard, or in nature (except on public roads) or to keep them in an urn deposited in a cemetery or a

specialised cineraria.

 Law on funerary legislation published on 20 December 2008 in the Official Journal.

http://www.service-public.fr/actualites/001051.html?xtor=EPR-140

[Phil & Pat]

[quote user="Clair"]Clarification of the new law on the disposal of human ashes

Law on funerary legislation published on 20 December 2008 in the Official Journal

[/quote]

Clair,

Does publication in the OJ mean that it is now enacted as law, or just a proposal for a new law?

[Clair]

"Les lois [...] entrent en vigueur à la

date qu'[elles] fixent ou, à défaut, le lendemain de leur publication.

Toutefois, l'entrée en vigueur de celles de leurs dispositions dont

l'exécution nécessite des mesures d'application est reportée à la date

d'entrée en vigueur de ces mesures."

Laws [...] come into force on the date that [they] determine or, failing that, the

day after their publication. However, where they necessitate decrees for their application, their entry into force is postponed to the date of entry into force of the decrees.

http://www.net-iris.fr/guide-juridique/journaux-officiels/jorf/2-application-lois-decrets.php

PS: excuse the poor translation! I hope it makes sense [:)]

[Phil & Pat]

Thanks Clair.  These summaries or extracts of new laws as published never seem to make it clear.  It would probably require the reading of the OJ publication from start to finish to find out if a decree is required for any particular legislation.