Gratin Dauphinois

[Patf]

I wonder what idun makes of this recipe?

I remember it used to be your signature dish:

https://www.750g.com/le-vrai-gratin-dauphinois-r204966.htm

As well as your pastry.

There are many other versions on there.

[Loiseau]

Ooooo, haven't made gratin dauphinois for years!! Why not? It's sooooo delicious.

Thanks for the reminder, Patf

[Hoddy]

Idun's pastry -

I've been around so long that it's in my folder as "Teamedups pastry"

Whatever we call it - it's wonderful.

[idun]

Double post

[idun]

Well I was taught to use all creme liquide and that is what I do in France. Still the simplicity of this recipe pleases me, and I daresay that there are dauphinois(e) who would use so much milk, what with being canny with their money and milk certainly makes it a cheaper version. So my only ' problem with this recipe, is it not being all cream

It is a dish that should always be a 'treat' what with all the calories in it, so why not use what a very good dauphinois chef taught me, all creme liquide. It truly is delicious.

I must add a footnote. Now living in England, and with a tendency to usually buy double cream, I have to add some milk to it to get a 'creme liquide', or get my old brain into gear and buy single cream or whipping cream. If I use all double cream it tends to get too onctueux, tastes good, but not quite the consistency I look for.

And a second foot note about cream.

The first time I bought creme fraiche from a cremerie, so many years ago, I served it and declared it was 'off'. Husband said it was fine, so did guests but it was not 'fresh cream'. And for me, was 'off'.

My husband loves creme fraiche, and I still buy it for him.

When Prince Harry married there was a recipe for elderflower and lemon cake doing the rounds and the one I tried had sour cream in it. I tasted the sour cream and compared it to some crème fraiche I had in. Blowed if I can tell the difference. I know how creme fraiche is 'made' but I still wonder why? As it would be easier to just 'sour' cream.?

[Patf]

I could never work out the creams in France. Especially when I was trying to make a baked cheese cake. My recipes were for british creams and cream cheeses, and somehow the french ones were different.

I had a few 'flops', eg once when I added the eggsto the french equivalent of thick double cream  it all dissolved into a runny mess.I gave up in the end.

French creme freche is good for savoury sauces, or with pasta.

[idun]

 Took me years to get to grips with french creams, but when I found this board I had been in France for just about 20 years so I had worked it all out.

I never found double cream in France and the only cream I could use for my UK recipes was Elle et Vire creme liquide, which had been well refridgerated and then use creme fixe with it, but not too much of that, AND I had to buy an electric mixer which I had never wanted or needed prior to my french move.

These days, i often cannot be bothered with the electric mixer and whip cream with a hand whisk.

Cannot say I never use creme fraiche, I have a couple of recipes where it works well, but as a cream that stands alone.......... beurk......... still tastes 'off' to me.

[ericd]

For us, a Gratin Dauphinois must only be made with Double Cream. In France, we tend to use those pouches of creme "Elle & Vire" which work ok but need to buy at least 5 to make the volume.

Also, plenty black pepper on the top.

[idun]

Not noix de muscade??? I love nutmeg ?

[richard51]

wow - why repeat.

A standard recipe from the internet and varied by chucking in this and that and:

https://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance-forums/cs/forums/3519756/ShowPost.aspx

Plus other threads on here - search function on here works well.

Experiment - OH seems to do well !!!

NB We started spring cleaning today - 5 full cylinders of dust/dog hair. But people on this forum seem to think such day to day activity is below them in favour of definitive better information.

Why not start a thread saying what you have done today without turning cooking into a science.

[nomoss]

[quote user="richard51"]wow - why repeat.

A standard recipe from the internet and varied by chucking in this and that and:

https://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance-forums/cs/forums/3519756/ShowPost.aspx

Plus other threads on here - search function on here works well.

Experiment - OH seems to do well !!!

NB We started spring cleaning today - 5 full cylinders of dust/dog hair. But people on this forum seem to think such day to day activity is below them.

NB1 Other houses next? grrrr

Why not start a thread saying what you have done today without turning cooking into a science.[/quote]

I think most people on here clean their houses more often than once a year[:D]

[richard51]

depends on how many houses old boy!!!!

And how many use them.

[suein56]

richard51 wrote : NB We started spring cleaning today - 5 full cylinders of dust/dog hair. But people on this forum seem to think such day to day activity is below them.

But hang on .. Spring comes but once a year so how can Spring cleaning be a day to day activity ?

Plus Richard51 wrote : Why not start a thread saying what you have done today without turning cooking into a science.

But, but .. according to my ex-scientist (retired) husband cooking is a science .. the turning of a number of ingredients into a culinary delight/masterpiece/work of art is chemical science .. pure and simple. From the mixture of ingredients with the added input of heat.

[richard51]

Science requires reproducible factors - very rarely available in the kitchen - Your OH should know this.

Plus the +/- factors.

Science is the process of discovery. Cooking is about making, not discovering, so it can't be a science.

eg add nutmeg - how much - a pinch, a gram, a whole nut, crushed, whole? it could go on!

More of an art as you say !!!

NB spring cleaning can last a long time - perhaps some people do not bother.

[Hoddy]

Is food preparation a science or an art ? An interesting question. I have an acquaintance who is very experienced teacher of A level Food & Nutrition. She won't accept anyone in her class who does not have O level chemistry and she is responsible for writing one of the standard text books for the course.

[idun]

Of course science is involved in cooking, and yet it is the art of cooking.

I HATED science subjects at school, physics, chemistry and biology but I can cook and bake exceedingly well in spite of my lack of knowledge and interest in the sciences.

And one can chuck stuff in to recipes sometimes, but not always as it simply changes what people will expect to eat and basically some things are far tooo good to clart on with.

[Patf]

I think bread baking is definitely a science. Like an unpredictable experiment.

[Judith]

Totally agree, Patf, I have basically given up making bread because of that.  Likewise cakes, which I do rarely, so I have yet to acquire either the science of putting the ingredients together correctly, or indeed to bake it for the required time ... heat, ... etc .. now that IS BOTH an art and a science. And I did science ... including chemistry, most of which I have forgotten ... so for me, cooking is an art, using basic chemistry, but which is much improved by practice, hence it is an art.

[richard51]

Perhaps cooking can best be described as a craft.

"Food and Nutrition" could well err on the side of (health) science.

[idun]

Bread is not hard.

Two things, are, in my opinion essential.

The first is patience about rising times. AND the second is using less yeast. I cannot use dried yeast as it makes my husband very seriously ill, and fresh is no problem for him

I used to use under a half of those cubes in France for 7lbs of flour and use about a quarter or less for amounts of flour under that.

Also because flours are so different in their absorption rates, (there is a word for that, but I cannot remember it), that I simply keep adding liquid and until the dough is slightly claggy.

A good knead, get all that frustration about paperwork and general stupidity in the world out, or better still get my husband to knead it as all the men who have helped with bread in our house, have been able to use extra muscle power on that dough and that makes for good bread.

And it is ready to rise when it feels like it is fighting back and firm. I know that they say to pull a piece up to see if one can make a window, but I just gently press my finger on it and if it springs back, it is ready.

Then I lightly oil the whole dough put it in a lightly oiled clean big bowl, cover it and leave it to rise in a cool place for about 4 maybe five hours, or overnight. Then a gentle knead and forming and then I leave for at least two or three hours until the dough has well doubled if not tripled.

The old 1 2 3 is a good way of working things out but they are an approximation. 1pint of liquid, 2 lbs of flour and three tea spoons of salt, but as I use sea salt these days, I have cut that down to three level teaspoons.  And I always put about two tablespoons of olive oil in my dough too, don't know when I started that, but sometimes I forget.

Also when baked, I always cool and freeze immediately in portions that we would use and it is like fresh bread when it comes out each day. I hate day old bread.

I make brioche, pizza bases, tea cakes, and anything else I fancy doing, basically I always use less yeast, although with the sweet things, it requires a little more, but not a lot and never what the recipe says.

I think the 'less yeast' method is Elizabeth Davidson's, but it works.

[Patf]

I love this video - but too energetic for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBO4XyL3iM

I use a robot with dough hook for kneading now.

[cajal]

[quote user="Patf"]I think bread baking is definitely a science. Like an unpredictable experiment.[/quote]

It is in this household. Fortunately Panasonic has it down to a fine art form and includes an excellent and easy to use instructions manual with their state of the art breadmakers.  Mind you, after twenty years of daily use, we've pretty well got the hang of it now.

[Judith]

Idun, that is all most useful and interesting, though I must admit, I too use the breadmaker for the kneeding but not the cooking ... I do think howe ver, that is it the yeast I use which is wrong .. I am encouraged to try your 1,2,3 method, I like that ... simple!!

[idun]

I have never used a bread maker. No one has ever explained how I could use fresh yeast with one, and I would literally be poisoning my husband if I used dried. I know that modern dried yeasts are miraculous, and do wonder what is in them or done to them to rise so quickly.

Also I have never been someone who uses machines much. Did not even have a whisk when I moved to France, used a fork for whisking until I encountered cream in France.

What gets on my nerves about machines is the fiddly job of washing them afterwards, gets on my nerves, as it is I just have my hands and a bowl and work surface.

My husband has a Kenwood chef with a dough hook, but that will only do small amounts and I like to make up a lot more dough when I get started, and I tried it once but was unimpressed.

With regards to the 123 method, the liquid could be spot on or variable as the flour may take a little less or more, and it is great when it is just right, but I never know. The good thing is that if the dough is too wet I just add a little more flour at a time until it feels right. Too dry and a little water at a time.

One thing is for sure, hand kneaded bread is not the same consistency as machine made.