Guarantee, worth the paper its written on?

[Chancer]

Yesterday I bought a céréalière ( a sort of muesli bar cooker) from Noz the déstockage magasin.

Normally I dont bother with guarantees and just throw away the reciept in France as here in Picardie you are treated like a condemned criminal for having the affront to expect the shop to honour the guarantee.

Anyway what intrigued me this time was the girl at the till told me not once but twice with great insistence to keep my reciept and that the product was guaranteed for 8 days and no more, it seemed odd especially the way she informed me.

On looking at the instruction booklet it which was in both French  and English, it said, (English version) "This product is covered by a 2-year warranty by your retailer, please refer to the warranty conditions supplied by your distributeur" [:-))] (French version) "Ce produit est garanti par votre distributeur 2 ans après le date de votre achat. pour plus de détails, veuillez vous reprter aux conditions de garantie fournies par celui-ci" [:-))]

I am going to make an exception of this one and keep the instruction book and reciept as it would be real fun to try it on if it fails after 18 months, the girls in their despite coming from the more friendly Pas De Calais are hand picked for their customer service skills [;-)]

Also I can heartily recommend this product after an exhaustive long term test, I have used it once!!!

It does what it says on the box very very well (except perhaps the guarantee), its made by Brandt and looks very designer and trendy although the colours probably wont go with most kitchens, best of all it was marked up at €14.95 but went through the tills at €9.95.

For any of you with children or grandchildren its a great way to get them interested in cooking and the colour and styling will really catch the eye of children, speaking as one myself!

[Gardener]

Is it returned/ used stock hence the low price and 8 day guarantee? I hadn't a clue what a céréalière is but now know that it costs nearly 40€ at Darty.

[AnOther]

I think you are wrong when you say it is returned/used stock. Although

some may well be I think the majority is exactly what it says,

destockage, sourced from companies and shops which have cleared out

unsold stock to make way for newer models.

I don't believe simply being destockage absolves the retailer from a guarantee either, we have bought several major items from our local store and each has come with at least a 1 year guarantee despite EU rules requiring 2.

That said maybe some destockage outlets do trade more in those sort of items and what the guarantee position is there I don't know.

Fortunately we have never had to make a claim for anything and it's all out of guarantee now so what would have happened if we had needed to will have to remain speculation..

[NormanH]

For me the interest of a guarantee is that if the item stops working it will be mended or replaced.

Often these shops are dealing with stock of companies that have gone out of business, so how does that leave the consumer?

I know that this doesn't apply to Chancer's whatsit, but I mean generally..

[Chancer]

I think that, in France at least this is only going to be an intellectual exercise given the way the concept of SAV is understood and implemented.

However, and I am saying this from a European standpoint the following "should" apply to both countries but of course in practice it doesnt.

When you buy something new and unused from a retailer, even if it is old stock they are obliged to offer you the statutary guarantee, for consumer goods probably one year repair or replacement, your contract is with them and it is their responsibility, in turn the manufacturer/importer has the same responsibility to them, it may be repaired or replaced by the retailer or sent off to the manufacturer.

In addition if the manufacturer offers a longer warranty it is usual for the consumer to deal direct with them especially after a few months, some manufacturers wish the consumer to send stuff directly back to them thus cutting the retailer out of the loop although the contract and responsibility is still with them, on larger items like washing machines they may send an engineer to your home to efect the repairs.

So in theory I could send my céréalière back to Brandt after 18 months, if they have gone bust I could take it back to Noz for a repair or refund within the first year, well we all know how much that theory is worth in France!!!

What gets me is the way that multi national companies respect their obligation in the UK and probably other EU countries but in France adopt the "when in rome.........." attitude.

I also think from the experience of others that in France sending an engineer to your home or the shop returning your product to the manufacturers especially if it is valuable and repairable is just a route to extorting money out of you by making unnecessary repairs and saying that you have mistretade the product, many is the occasion that when the devi is refused the item (a stihl chainsaw for instance) is returned in pieces with some deliberately broken.

[idun]

I had three lots of excellent service apres vente in France. Memorable because they happened.

Carrefour and the Camif were usually quite decent when we returned stuff.

[Chancer]

Lidl and Aldi are generally quite good but as wi all things it depends on the gene pool from which the staff and especially the management are drawn from.

Ikea are fantastic by anybody's standards by comparison to French ones thay are on a different planet, they will proudly tell you its what they build their reputation on, the mission statement is transmitted and understood from the top to bottom, the younger seasonal staff tend to be the most vigourous, I presume being malleable and not having had time to be dragged down, the rare times that I have had a French experience there,being ignored whilst the staff chat amongst themselves, "if you cant see it we aint got it" etc it has been from the middle aged ones.

I would travel the length of France to shop at Ikea.

[Pommier]

We sat in Ikea's SAV department once and watched a couple bring in an absolutely filthy, stained sofa which the staff took back with not a quibble!

The kitchens and mattresses have a fantastic guarantee (25 years comes to mind) - and it's not as if they're expensive in the first place.

[Clair]

[quote user="Chancer"]Yesterday I bought a céréalière ( a sort of muesli bar cooker)...the girl at the till told me not once but twice with great insistence to

keep my receipt and that the product was guaranteed for 8 days and no

more, it seemed odd especially the way she informed me.[/quote]

A slight misunderstanding here, I think.

I believe the till operator was referring to the délai légal de rétractation de 7 jours (translation), which states that you can change your mind and return the unused item up to 7 days after the day of purchase.

On another note, I have been intrigued by this céréalière... What did you make with it during your extensive trial?

[Chancer]

Muesli bars, or energy bars whatever you want to call them, I am on my second lot now.

I am using banana ecrasé and syrop d'agave to avoid sugar, some muesli or porridge oats, some chopped dried fruit and nuts, I also have some Quinoa pops that I got in the UK (horrendous price here) that go well in the mix, a little oil or butter and Robert is your fathers brother.

Considering I am not using a recipé, guessing the proportions and only using what I have to hand they have come out fantastic, far better and allegéé than any that I have bought, plus they cost an arm and a leg in France.

I am going back tomorrow to buy a few as presents if they still have them.

[Clarkkent]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that a European directive had imposed a uniform set of regulations on consumer rights on all members countries. The European Commission had looked around for the best practice and found it in the British Sale of Goods Act and related regulations. Sale of Goods states that the contract is between the seller and the buyer and that the buyer should seek recourse from the seller. Any guarantee or warranty is in addition to the SoG protection and cannot be used to reduce or remove SoG rights. Goods have to be as described, fit for purpose and of merchantable quality.

Now SoG has been round for donkeys years, but shops and traders - including some who you would think should know better - still get it wrong and try to get the customer to take their complaints to manufacturers. It is no surprise, then, that traders in France are apparently clueless when it comes to consumer protection!

[Chancer]

Clair.

I just saw on the reciept and it says échange sous huit jours, but the cashier definitely said garantie huit jours and confirmed if it stopped working after quinze jours tant pis!

I think basically they dont give any guarantee, everything is sold en etat but they will accept exchanges within 8 days.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Clair.

I just saw on the reciept and it says échange sous huit jours, but the cashier definitely said garantie huit jours and confirmed if it stopped working after quinze jours tant pis!

I think basically they dont give any guarantee, everything is sold en etat but they will accept exchanges within 8 days.

[/quote]

Noz in Parthenay, a discount store, have this policy, even with their sales goods. If it doesn't work or even if you just dont like it they refund the sales price. But this has nothing to do with the 7day retraction period which in practice applies to internet purchases or mail order stuff like la rédoute. Guarantee is one thing retraction is another.

[NormanH]

Are you sure the shop isn't called NAZ ? [6]

[AnOther]

Ultimately the actual guarantee always rests with the manufacturer but as a first line the retailer is responsible for honouring it and dealing with problems but it's here that things can go wrong, usually because of poorly trained staff or sometimes because of a deliberate company policy of saying 'no' and hoping you 'will go away.

Many manufacturer do have proper and efficient customer support systems

and going that route can dramatically cut down the length of time it

takes to resolve a problem. It can also cut down on potential miscommunications because you are reporting the problem to them 1st hand and they in turn are able to talk directly to you about your item or if there are any decisions to be made so just because a retailer advises you to go directly to them it does not automatically follow that they are trying to shirk their responsibilities, they could be trying to help you.

This is particularly so with hi-tech electronic goods where local or inhouse repairs will usually be impossible in which case the retailer really will be no more than a middle man.

At the end of the day you want whatever it is fixed or replaced and if bypassing the retailer is the best way to achieve that then why not ?

[pachapapa]

Good post AnO, a newer Samsung TV can be diagnosed jointly with the SAV online via the internet with the LAN or WLAN activated.

The regional Sammy tech support will be initiated and they will either call and fix or take it away for repair.

The local Sammy tech service is located in Tours and covers the west coast from Nantes to Bordeaux, reportedly 65 engineers/technicians in specialist teams with manufacturer training and support; they cover most of bettter brands.