Does Landlord have right of entry?

[Daft Doctor]

Thanks for the witty comments, it has helped in what has been quite a stressful 24 hours.  We received an email reply of sorts from the landlord's wife this afternoon after she'd left 3 bottles of miscellaneous spirits on our doorstep this morning, and just after I'd changed the cylinder of the door lock (what an easy job that was, 2 minutes tops!).  Anyway, she goes on about how she has developed a booze problem and how we should 'understand' that her taking our drink is part of the disease.  There is no apology or remorse, just attempts to justify her behaviour, something which all addicts are very capable of, hiding behind their addiction rather than taking responsibility for their actions.

There is a small storage room within the demise of our apartment which we don't rent from them, but they allowed us to use the room to store some of our spare furniture along with some of their own things when we moved in.  As they can only access this storage room by crossing our hallway and by using a door directly from their garage into our hallway (which then would give access to our whole apartment), I said that we wanted to disable the lock on that door from the garage to only allow them access to their storage room with our permission and when we were present.  The final insult was that far from wanting to do all things reasonable to head off a more formal approach via ANIL, gendarmes or whatever, her parting shot in the email was that we were to get all of our stuff out of the storage room and if we wouldn't allow them free access to it they would give us 3 months notice to quit.  The latter is is an empty threat as our contract has already been tacitly renewed as from this coming January 1st for a further year.  It is only we who can quit, not them.  Point is, she seems intent on inflaming things rather than getting her head down and behaving herself, unbelievable.  Have had to draft another email pointing out a few home truths, not sure it will make a scrap of difference, if not it may well have to be to the authorities with the evidence, something which I'm sure you'll understand I would rather not feel obliged to do!  [:(]    

[Cendrillon]

oh dear DD, just hang in there and do let us know how it goes. If nothing else console yourselves, we on the forum are having one of the most interesting reads for a long time.

[Chancer]

As a landlord myself I never thought that I would be advising people to break the conditions of their lease but I share your concerns about getting back your caution given her response.

Firstly you should change all the locks and deny them access except in your presence and with notice, remove your stuff from the cupboard if you dont have the right of access (although strange that it is within your demeure, a but no different to me retaining a section of my loft and asking permission to access it),  remove all their stuff and put it outside their door.

The next bit you should not put in writing but perhaps best all the same to tell her verbally, you are going to take a rent holiday of 2 months during la trêve hivernale and then recommence paying monthly but will remain 2 months in arrears, you could perhaps word this as a sanction because of her unlawfull behaviour instead of you bringing charges against her.

I realise that you cannot know exactly what date you will be leaving the apartment until your new place is finished, this wy your caution will be protected, they cannot get you out until the spring by which time you will once again be paying the rent albeit 2 months in arrears, it would take them a very long time to get you out and I doubt that they would dare given what she has done and admitted to doing.

As has been said take photographs and look carefully at the etat des lieux.

Her response does not surprise me in the slightest, she considers herself to be the victim not you and your wife, maybe soon she will become the victim!

[Daft Doctor]

About an hour ago the doorbell rang.  When I answered the husband was there.  He just said he knew about the emails we'd sent to his wife and said 'it's sad but one day you will leave and that will be the best thing'.  No apology, no Sir!  Have sent copies of the video clips in case he thinks we are kidding.

Good idea Chancer.  I'm usually a 'play it straight by the book' man and I too am a landlord in the UK (where deposits must be protected and returned within 10 days of the end of the tenancy), so to withold rent doesn't seem natural.  That being said we've got until beginning of February to decide whether to do that or not.  If I'm in doubt about the security of our deposit at that stage we'll have to seriously consider playing that card and bluffing it out until they'd be due to pay our deposit back anyway.  We'll see, but I'm still keen to avoid full blown formal action simply for the sake of avoiding the stress and potential fallout that may bring. [:)] 

 

[Chancer]

I think that I will be saying this until the day I finally leave France, in the words of the song:

Sorry seems to be the hardest word [;-)]

Anyone ever recieved one?

[Daft Doctor]

Dead right Chancer but do you know what, without giving it all away, her first language is English! [;-)]

[Cendrillon]

Sorry

c'est rare

I once had a desolé from our builder but I don't really remember any other apologies in more than ten years.

[Cendrillon]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]Dead right Chancer but do you know what, without giving it all away, her first language is English! [;-)][/quote]

Blimey!

[Chancer]

I did suspect that either she spoke english or your French was very good by the ease and rapidity by which you fired off E-mails, it takes me a long time to compose one in french and hence I find myself breaking my golden rule of confront early.

I think if anything that actually strengthens your position.

Good luck, it will be a great conversation piece in the future!

[idun]

I agree with Chancer about the two months 'holiday' during the treve hivernale. I would not trust these people as far as I could throw them now.

If they start any sneaky tricks, report them to the authorities and get your builders etc to make a big push on your new house.

[Lehaut]

+2 with Chancer on this. We too are landlords of an appartment in France. Having had an horrendous problem with a tenant, and despite spending lots of money, we could have been faced with her in place for 10 months, without rent and us paying the charges. I got an agreement from the Hussier when, in frustration, I said taking a contract out on her was the only way of a quick resolution!!

Great post and story here though.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]Dead right Chancer but do you know what, without giving it all away, her first language is English! [;-)][/quote]

Lol, not the odious Madame Brick is it?

[NormanH]

As often you are thinking  as if you were in England.

Stop paying the rent to them  now and put it in a savings account to show that you are wiilling to pat but that it is a matter of their behaviour

They can not make you leave and any process they might undertake to recuperate can  be delayed until well after you are in your new place

You should also 'porter plainte' for 'violation de domicile '  and vol  (with your video evidence)

VISITE DU LOGEMENT PAR LE BAILLEUR / ABSENCE D'ACCORD DU LOCATAIRE (Cass. Civ. III : 25.2.04)

En application de l'article 226-4 du Code pénal condamnant la

violation de domicile, la jurisprudence a toujours considéré que

l'intrusion de force du propriétaire dans les locaux loués constituait

une violation de domicile.

On sait que parallèlement aux poursuites pénales, la responsabilité

civile délictuelle du bailleur pourrait être engagée dans un tel cas par

le locataire, mais il doit pour obtenir gain de cause, prouver une

faute, un préjudice et un lien de causalité entre les deux.

Dans cet arrêt, la Cour de cassation se fonde sur le respect de la

vie privée (Code civil : art. 9) pour condamner le bailleur à réparation

en cas de visite du logement loué sans l'accord du locataire et

dispense ainsi ce dernier d'avoir à rapporter la preuve d'une faute du

bailleur.

Article 226-4

(Ordonnance nº 2000-916 du 19 septembre 2000 art. 3 Journal Officiel du 22 septembre 2000 en vigueur le 1er janvier 2002)

L'introduction ou le maintien dans le domicile d'autrui à l'aide de

manoeuvres, menaces, voies de fait ou contrainte, hors les cas où la loi

le permet, est puni d'un an d'emprisonnement et de 15000 euros

d'amende.

Both these things (using the winter trève and porter plainte) don't come naturally to many British people but are more frequent here.

[Daft Doctor]

Thank you Norman, all of this seems to be going completely over the landlords' heads. As a point of interest do you lodge a porter plainte with the gendarmerie or if not who? Need to be prepared, might have to pen a summary document of all that has happened in French, and that will take a little time!

[Chancer]

On reflection I think Norman is 100% right especially given the nationality of at least one of the landlords.

Daft Doctor, I know what you mean about being prepared, when I go to the Gendarmerie they take it as an affront that I should want them to do their job and become verbally aggressive with me, several of them will join in which is very intimidating.

However your video evidence will speak for itself and cerise sur le gateau if they try to wriggle out of it saying "yes but it could be anyone, we are unlikely to find the culprit" you can tell them exactly who it is

[NormanH]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"]Thank you Norman, all of this seems to be going completely over the landlords' heads. As a point of interest do you lodge a porter plainte with the gendarmerie or if not who? Need to be prepared, might have to pen a summary document of all that has happened in French, and that will take a little time![/quote]

I go to our Commissariat because being a town it is the Police Nationale who is responsible, but in a smaller commune it would be the Gendarmes.

Be prepared to cite the 'textes' as they are more prepared to do something if you show that you know what you are talking about, especially as they may think that you, being British, don't know your rights.

[Teapot]

Just wondered what the state of play is now DD? Are you still there or have you managed to get into your own house?

[Daft Doctor]

Hi Teapot/All.  Thanks for your interest, happy to give an update. 

We had a very stressful and worrying 10 days or so after the initial insult, during which time our car's rear windscreen wiper was inexplicably wrenched off on the driveway, and we had a series of deranged and incoherent emails coming from Mrs Landlord, not one with an apology, some quite nasty and of a jealous nature.  Mr Landlord then went into a clinic for rehab soon afterwards, remaining there 3 weeks.  We considered all options, including to move out, if only for peace of mind's sake.  Mrs Landlord continued to be plastered most of the time, but she eventually went into rehab a couple of hundred km away just before Xmas.  By this time we had family staying with us, so felt much better supported and able to cope.

When Mr Landlord came back I had a long chat with him, during which he told me all about the hell he'd been through with Mrs LL in the recent past.  Some of what he told me was quite shocking and I felt quite sorry for him.  He gave reassurances about a forthcoming apology from Mrs LL and regarding the rest of our tenancy, so we felt more settled afterwards.  During a weekend home leave Mrs LL did indeed come up to apologise, but claimed she had no recollection of what she'd done, the emails she'd sent, etc.  She still stopped short of accepting responsibility for her actions, merely citing the alcohol as the culprit.  We were ambivalent about the apology, but pointed out that we would be content if we could just leave a peaceful and unhindered life until we could move out to our new place.

Our new house is thankfully progressing well to timescale, and we will certainly be in at the end of March.  With less than 2 months to go therefore, the immediate crisis has passed and we will see it out.  We will not however forget it in a hurry and forgiveness is certainly not on the agenda.  We had Mrs LL lodge a cheque for the return of our damage deposit with a 3rd party agent, and having formed a better relationship with Mr LL decided to pay our rent for Feb and March as per the contract.  We of course retain all the evidence of Mrs LL's intrusions, emails, etc and know that we are in our rights to bring a complaint against her at the Gendarmerie at any stage should any untoward events occur between now and our departure.  Here's hoping......  [:)]

[Frecossais]

Glad to hear things are more stable now DD.

Good luck with the move in March and hope it will prove to be just what the Doctor ordered.

[PaulT]

DD what a nightmare to go through - sounds like the pair are well matched.

There was an interesting caller to Jeremy Vine show on Radio2 today. It was from a drug addict who had been off drugs for 18 years and not just drugs, he feels that he can touch nothing that could be habit forming, be it alcohol, cigarettes, gambling etc. He viewed it that he was walking a very narrow tightrope.

My Mother is an alcoholic - she has been dry for 25 years but when she was drinking my life as a child was terrible and could still be horrendous when I married and left home - she could very easily insult my friends and not realise. Unfortunately, until an alcoholic realises they have a problem they will do nothing about it.

[Daft Doctor]

Hi PaulT, interestingly my mother too was an alcoholic, desparately difficult to deal with, she only improved when she went into 24 hour residential care and couldn't get access to alcohol herself.  Even with the strong emotional attachment you have to your family members, you will know from your own experience how horribly difficult and destructive alcoholics can be to all around them.  You will also understand why I've got no desire to be affected by the alcoholic problems of complete strangers, its for them to sort their own problems out.  Hopefully they'll manage to keep the wheels on until we've disappeared, the chances of them being dry long-term after all are very low.