Judith Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 [quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Judith you are very funny. Your posts make me laugh.P.S Where is W1 by the way in France ?[/quote]ALBF, read a little more of this forum, and another of my recent posts, then you'll soon find out where W1 is.And who said it was in France????? It is only you who has once again made an assumption. I'll leave you decide whether your assumption is correct or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]Well, although not recent, this does only date from a couple of years ago....perhaps you are aware of a more recent law change or mass evacuation?http://sante.lefigaro.fr/actualite/2013/06/04/20705-plus-plus-medecins-etrangers-franceAnd check out the related article link at the end of the first article:"Mon medecin generaliste est un etranger"[/quote]Medicine is such a popular career in France you wonder why there is a shortfall of doctors. But the reality is that most people in France don't want to live or work in rural locations. A message I keep trying to get across to those looking to move to France.The average salary of a Doctor (generaliste) in France is something like 89,000 euros. I am not sure their is a financial incentive for a foreign person to move to France and become a doctor bearing in mind of course that France is a very expensive country to live in.Interestingly, the average salary of a radiologist in France is something like 189,000 euros. I know what my kids will be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 16715 foreign médecin généralistes, no doubt the number is higher now.There should be some way to find one that speaks your language, you can do so with Notaires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 One of my best french friends here is a nurse, and her English though not perfect, is certainly as fluent as my french, if not more so. Almost all medical professionals I have met here have some English, they either learnt a little at school, or have an interest in picking up words to use with their patients, if they have not had to know some to complete their studies. I am often asked by my chiropodist, for example, what is the translation of a word ... and she corrects my terminology too. Remember also, that much medical literature is only written in English, and any medical consultant is likely to have to keep up to date not always only in his/her maternal tongue. Another good reason why trying to find an English speaking doctor in France is not a foolish idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Given the amount of British expats living in SW France it would stand to reason I suppose that a lot of medical staff speak English. In mainstream France it is certainly not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 [quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Given the amount of British expats living in SW France it would stand to reason I suppose that a lot of medical staff speak English. In mainstream France it is certainly not the case.[/quote] Doctors who treated my wife's emergency situation in Vendôme spoke English, and when I attended the Hôpital Bretoneau in Tours for a small procedure, as soon as I spoke my not too bad; but not too good French, the Doctor and his assistants spoke back uninvited by me; in really excellent English. Your mistake is judging things just by your experiences, I think you must live a very sheltered life, get out more and broaden your mind, if that's possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 High NickI used to play pool in Vendôme in the 'La Comedie'. You might know it. There was another pool club just outside Vendôme I use to play there as well. The Liverpool I think it was called. Not sure it is still there still mind you. Anyway, that was when I lived a less sheltered life. LOLVendôme is a really nice place. We once looked at house there not far from the gare TGV. I think a lot of Americans live there. I have had loads of X rays in Bretoneau. I can't remember anyone speaking English. Spent 5 hours in the emergency of Trousseau last week only a student nurse (who could not take blood very well) spoke English.I suppose it is all down to luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I think, ALBF, that you might be falling into the trap of stereotyping many posters on here. Not everyone is an exact cut-out of your uncharitable view of the "typical" expat, nor do they all live in enclaves or only mix with other Brits. It appears that you believe most on here all live in some cosy little enclave built as a shrine to Miss Marple or Downton, a stones throw from Eymet, and that only you have a grasp on life in "mainstream" France, whatever that is.You've brought your preconceptions with you from that other forum, haven't you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 NickP, I have absolutely nothing against hospital staff speaking to any one on holiday in the patients language.......... if they know it. That must be very reassuring for the patient. And I knew that you are a second home owner, and that we have quite a few on the board.I have a very simplistic view of all this language thing. If there is a proper move to another country, then, learn the language, and if I can do it, in spite of my best efforts........sadly butchering it as I do, then believe me, anyone can. In England I have a spannish and german doctor, and if we get a french one, I shall speak to them in english, because I am in England. I expect professionals to have an exceptionally high level of english if they are working in England and I would expect any non french Doctors in France to have an equal level of french.They do not actually need any other language other than the country they are working in. As I said, for me this is simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Betty - "that other forum" hasn't been like that for years. It's just the way albf is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]I think, ALBF, that you might be falling into the trap of stereotyping many posters on here. Not everyone is an exact cut-out of your uncharitable view of the "typical" expat, nor do they all live in enclaves or only mix with other Brits. It appears that you believe most on here all live in some cosy little enclave built as a shrine to Miss Marple or Downton, a stones throw from Eymet, and that only you have a grasp on life in "mainstream" France, whatever that is.You've brought your preconceptions with you from that other forum, haven't you??[/quote]Nooo. I am just having a laugh. I really have no idea of what the typical 'Brit expat' is. I suspect most are pretty cool although some seem to lose their sense of humour when moving to France. Which is understandable.The 'other' forum as you put it has become boring. If it was not for itchy and scratchy (well just itchy now) it would not be worth a visit. Largely because it has become the Exchange & Mart for RHD cars in France and a Windows 8 Helpdesk.The funny face forum (s***** France) is the best one although I am not a member (far too good looking). Seriously, that is a scary place but very funny. I think most there live in a cosy little enclave built as a shrine to Miss Marple or Downton as you put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]Selected text... I'm just watching Question Time where one of the speakers has just stated that 26% of doctors working in the UK were not born in the UK. it would therefore be logical to assume that someone from another country would have a fair chance of finding a doctor who speaks their language, and it follows that if you want to communicate with an English-speaking doctor in the UK, you have a one in four chance of it being a doctor whose first language is not English. [/quote]I had to take issue with your statistical conclusions. [6] "26% of doctors working in UK were not born in UK". It doesn't necessarily follow that they wouldn't speak English as their first language, as I'm sure you are aware that English is the first language in many large countries, USA, Oz and NZ for example. Therefore without knowing their country of origin, the 1 in 4 chance is a guess. [geek] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's interesting to read about the great variations in the level and amount of English spoken by medical staff in France, as might be expected. I've been treated by medics of various nationalities in England, including a Chinese and a Pakistani doctor at our GP practice and several from Poland, Pakistan, Nigeria and Germany at our local hospital.The GP we see most often in France speaks near-perfect English, with others in the same group also able to speak it extremely well. They have many Anglophone patients on their lists, whether English, Dutch, German or whatever, and conduct appointments in English if the patient needs to. Those patients who are fine in French conduct their appointments in French of course. All the doctors in that group are fairly young, and all did some of their training in English, and there other doctors in town who can also conduct appointments in English, who are fairly young too.When my husband was an in-patient in Nîmes a few years ago, the surgeon and anaesthetist both spoke excellent English, and I assume both took courses similar to our GPS, with English included. Nurses on his ward that we met didn't generally have English language skills. However, they found my husband's slightly shaky French - he was very ill and in great pain at the time - far easier to understand than the man who shared the same room. He was from the Cevennes and it took me a couple of days to be able to conduct a proper conversation with him, what with his difficult accent and his constant use of his TV with the volume turned up high. His accent was much harder to understand than locals from the Nîmes area, and that can definitely an acquired skill, even for many French from elsewhere in the country.The doctor who conducted my husband's ultrasound scan spoke perfect English, but refused to speak it to people who were living in France. He was of the opinion that if they chose to live in France, they should learn to communicate in French. He was delighted to speak to me in English though (not that it was necessary), as his choir had recently performed in our town in England at the invitation of a choir we knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Absolutely bang on, Sid (if you fundamentally agree that Americans, Australians and Kiwis speak English, which is debatable!) but that's why I'm a linguist and not a mathematician or statistician. Although I'll lay odds that people from the countries you mentioned are a tiny fraction of that 26%. I reckon your chances are probably one on 3.95 in reality. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The funny face forum (s***** France) is the best one although I am not a member (far too good looking). Seriously, that is a scary place but very funny. I think most there live in a cosy little enclave built as a shrine to Miss Marple or Downton as you put it. I'll need more of a clue than that to be able to see the scary faces. Are they red, wrinkled and blotchy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I teach 'professional English ' to French healthcare professionals. They are expected to have a reasonable level of English before being accepted for their training and they attend lectures and conferences delivered in English. This is not so they can communicate with immigrant patients but because the academic and scientific research that they need to read and understand in order to practice is published in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]I think, ALBF, that you might be falling into the trap of stereotyping many posters on here. Not everyone is an exact cut-out of your uncharitable view of the "typical" expat, nor do they all live in enclaves or only mix with other Brits. It appears that you believe most on here all live in some cosy little enclave built as a shrine to Miss Marple or Downton, a stones throw from Eymet, and that only you have a grasp on life in "mainstream" France, whatever that is. [/quote]You've nailed it Betty. If I didn't speak good French then my/our life in France would be incredibly difficult to lead. We are surrounded by predominately well educated French people who have lead (and continue to lead in retirement) successful lives and who, in all probability speak English very well - though the subject has not been discussed in depth.My OH arrived in France 10 years ago with about 5 words of French and he has made valiant efforts to learn to communicate, though he is not a person who finds learning a foreign language at all easy. He is understood by most people he meets and only asks me to accompany him when he visits his cardiologue as she speaks so very quickly, and at such length, that he forgets a goodly proportion of what she has said. She is of Chinese origin, as if that matters; but oh so competent, and her French is excellent. I also assume that she speaks/understands English, but that point has never arisen.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Following on from the post above, the amount of successful people or 'cadres' as you would say in French that speak good English is surprisingly low to non-existent....and remember 'cadres' run the show in France. My OH tells me that a lot of 'cadres' are arrogant in thinking they can speak English when they can't. A friend of mine also says that it is normal practice for applicants to put on their CV that they can speak English even if they can't. Employers don't care because they then don't have to send them for 'training' at their expense. The majority of jobs in France does not require English so it really is not important.In my experience the people who speak good English pop up in the most surprising places. My dustman can speak English, a women in our local Toys r Us speaks immaculate to utterly perfect English. Quite a few younger staff in the likes of Darty or Leroy speak English. But when you talk to the managers of these stores 'the cadres' the highly paid ones that went to the 'good schools' they can't speak a word.It kinda the same in hospitals. The nurse is more likely to speak English that the doctor.Chancer: Google 'Survive France' to see the funny faces. Some have made an effort with their photos...others not so much. It is quite funny to see a picture of someone living in the Dordogne who is completely incapable of painting with French paint. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 <>ALBF, this is exactly the opposite of what we have found, as I said in my post yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Having worked, in England and France, for a number of international companies, it is interesting. For example, when Renault formed its alliance with Nissan, it was decreed that henceforth English would be the Company Language. Everyone (just about) in Nissan Europe spoke perfect English whereas in Renault HQ very few people could sustain a conversation, let alone conduct business in English despite it being a prerequisite for both recruitment and promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Lindal,Thanks, you confirm what I said yesterday - almost all scientific research is published in English these days (a great change from when in my first professional posting (many years ago now) I had to translate French and German articles to be able to describe them properly to input and keyword them on the library database. Hence why most medical staff have some competence in English ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 So just where is "mainstream" France????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 You raise interesting points here ALBF.Neither of my sons ever got the best marks in the class in english lessons in french colleges. And this was often the case for other english people I know..... for one parent, resulting in them going into the class and speaking to the kids in english and none understood but her child! And insisting that their child's marks were increased.The way english is taught, often means that 'bilingual' kids have to hold their tongues, because the 'english' teacher is often making a pig's breakfast of english. And a couple of french 'english' teachers I know of put 'Very Well' at the end of good work, which may be 'tres bien' in french but is most certainly NOT, 'well done' in english....... and that sort of highlights the differences.And then the BIG factor which I believe affects or has affected more than one poster on here, and that is the confidence to speak the language, the confidence to understand that making mistakes is all part of the learning process and some will be just be part of the awful way you speak french (moi for example) and simply just get on with it and laugh at the right royal mess ups that will happen. This lack of confidence, and maybe not wanting to sound like a three year old grasping at words is not 'just' something that affects those that move to France, but affects french people who were taught english at school, (because they all are), and just daren't for fear of sounding/looking stupid. Ofcourse the more we do it, the better we get at it, faults and all, but it is a hurdle and I daresay that many prefer to not 'try' than be thought the worse of. Where this thread is concerned, they are french health workers in France, so why should they, even IF they can....although I would hope that some pity is always taken on holiday makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 "Where this thread is concerned, they are french health workers in France, so why should they, even IF they can", because, Idun, whether the French wish it or no, we now live in an international world, and so far, technically, a Europe with free movement of people .... so I ask, why should they NOT???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote user="Judith"]"Where this thread is concerned, they are french health workers in France, so why should they, even IF they can", because, Idun, whether the French wish it or no, we now live in an international world, and so far, technically, a Europe with free movement of people .... so I ask, why should they NOT????[/quote]Judith....unless you are a linguistic expert/gifted in languages or you are in a position to practice a second language on a daily basis you will forget how to speak that second language . Saying 'everyone in France should speak English' is stupid.Apart from SW bloody France (I am beginning understand why so many Brit expats live in that part of France) most people in 'mainstream France' (I will explain that one to you one day Betty) most French people don't need to speak English on a day to day basis. So even if someone could speak English (from school, university..trips abroad blah blah blah), they would naturally lose the ability to do so over a period of time if they did not practice it.Why can't Brits get that simple concept ?????Everyone should should speak English blah blah blah...it gets on my t1ts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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