Had to call ambulance - emergency - now being charged 100%

[chessie]

Oh dear;   to save my OH''s life a few months ago I had to call an ambulance in the early hours of the morning.   He was transported to nearest hospital.   We waved the Carte Vitale all over the place as requested.

I thought emergencies were treated 'free'.

We've now had huge (and I mean top-end 3 figure huge - almost 4 figure) invoice for ambulance transportation.

I thought OH had had a stroke;  breathing difficulties, totally unconcsious - so I called an ambulance.  I was terrified for him.

Now it seems we're being charged 100% for emergency transportation.

We're retired;  we're here on the usual UK/French health arrangements;  we have current Carte Vitale.

What's this about?

Do we just pass it on to CPAM ?

But why a charge for an emergency ambulance ?

Told OH next time - I'll take him to hospital myself !!!

Chessie 

[Hereford]

Usually is free - perhaps the (?) private ambulance people did not actually process Carte Vitale.  Did you dial 15 for the ambulance or the company direct? Always call 15 !!

Go see CPAM and your Mutuelle if need be.

[NormanH]

It may be you called an" ambulance" rather than the emergency service

Emergencies are dealt with by 'les  pompiers"

Did you call 15  (les pompiers) or was it one of the taxi/ambulance firms that take people to appointments?

The latter charge and need a bon de transport signed by a Doctor before or at the time to be reimbursed.

[idun]

Best ask the CPAM and your mutuellist, suspect as has been said that you have called a private ambulance.

Son had an accident in a resort just as he  was finishing his day snow hoarding. Just near the car park and there was an ambulance parked up who said they would take him to hospital, fortunately not too far away as it happened, and that cost us quite a lot at the time. We did ask why he hadn't called the sapeur pompier s and he pointed out that he was bleeding badly, cut his hand through to the tendon, and never thought about other than getting treatment.

No way I would other than call the sapeur pompiers in France, at least where I lived.

Incidentally have you asked the hospital if they can give you any paperwork to authorize using an ambulance?? Just a thought.

[chessie]

I put up this post in a panic.   Should've waited.

Long story.   OH suffered what I believed to be a stroke - tried the 115 number - needed English speaking line - was told to phone 112 - which I did.  Meantime OH is in trouble - unconcsious, not breathing properly..... taken to hospital, tests etc etc.   He discharged himself 24 hours later - we went home.  Because he'd discharged himself we could not be given the results of the tests - but were told to see our own doctor asap.

Two days later I was at the receiving end of a huge rant from OH, berated for having called an ambulance 'nothing wrong with him...not to do it again....rather be left on the floor... blah blah' - absolutely furious with me.

Today after post arrived he came storming into the study, thrust what appeared at first glance to be an invoice for huge sum of money - and went off on another rant.....

Didn't have chance to have proper look at paperwork, was so upset I thought I'd turn to here and to 'the guys who know and can help'........

Now he's cooled down a bit, and I've sneaked the paperwork away, got it translated - it seems it is just more for info and to be passed on to our mutuelle for info;  but - phew thank goodness - it is not a bill.   For which I'm extremely grateful - and not just for the financial implication - but it would have been confirmatin again for him of something else I'd done wrong.

Sorry guys ;  but thanks for your quick responses.   I really should have given it a few hours and double-checked - but faced with such hostility I just needed some info quickly.

Sorry - just ignore - but thanks.

Chessie

[Chancer]

Sounds like as often the female partner has to do all the communication in the second language and then gets berated for not doing it right.........................

 

You will know what to do next time, nothing! - He has made that quite clear.

 

Glad you dont have the stress of worrying about the bill now, its misunderstandings like that which lead to all the tales you hear about how much someone had to pay and why you should have a mutuelle, what the bill does show though is how much the state ends up paying for emergency transport and more often than not just a convenient and free taxi service.

 

I remember being worried sick after being carted away in an ambulance at midnight, ERM scans, staff rostered in for an emergency operation, 2 weeks in hospital recovering several more procédures, batteries of tests every day etc and at the end of it having no idea if I would have to pay but after seeing the rates posted on the wall (which they do to scare you into the mutuelle merry go round) knowing that it may even be a 6 figure sum, I had nobody to blame or rant at mores the shame [:D]

[idun]

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-assistance_%C3%A0_personne_en_danger

Please remind your tetu husband that there is a real law in France, Non Assistance a personne en danger.............

Yes people can refuse treatment, that is their right, but  I do believe that you do not have the right to just leave him.........

ps, sounds like you are on a battle front at the moment, what with the radio post.............. good luck with everything.

[chessie]

Idun - oh aren't you lovely;  you've tied up my radio post with this one - now you can understand everything !! - aren't you remarkably perspective XX

You're right;  of course I couldn't just 'leave him' !!   - much as there are times I would want to - in fact I told him if that was if how he felt then he'd have to put it in writing - with his signature - because otherwise I'd be facing the wrath of his family !! - and possibly even more serious consequences.  

I'm trying to laugh at it all. 

But when I'm lying next to him, in bed, in the early hours towards dawn, listening to his breathing - listening to him not breathing properly for a few minutes - then he stops breathing - followed by the big indrawn breath - I'm the one who is not geting a proper night's sleep, night after night after night.

We all have our crosses don't we ? !!!

But thanks everyone - you've all been very informative;  it's frightening just how much these emergency services do cost - even though we don't actually pay for them up front.   Might do people some good if they were just sent an 'informative' document letting them know exactly how much in financial terms their treatment/emergency assistance/ etc has cost.

Thanks everyone - chat again next time I have a problem.   Love this forum - and everyone's kind comments.

Chessie

[Chancer]

Sleep apnea?

[chessie]

Oh yes - most definitely and several times every night.   Problem - total and absolute refusal to accept he has a problem.   Then he wonders why he's so tired during the day !!

But the frightening situation which led to me calling an ambulance was far, far worse.  He was unconscious, making terrible sounds in struggling to breath, spasms involving arms and legs (almost epileptic) very red in face - totally and completely unresponsive to my hitting, thumping and slapping him.   Flat on the floor beside the bed - out of it.

I was terrified - much worse than his apnea incidents.

Then I get blamed for calling an ambulance.

When he arrived in hospital at least an hour after calling ambulance his b/p was terrifying still high, although he was conscious - and during the hours afterwards the heart monitor would sound an alarm because heart-rate was erratic.   I was there, listening to it all.

I can't win - I just have to accept that's the way he is - and hope we don't have another episode.

But must make sure he writes out that note to absolve me of any blame !!!!

Chessie

[richard51]

It does sound like he (and you) would benefit from him seeing a doctor.

As for lifestyle changes this may help, if you can get him to read it - it may even help towards him accepting that he has a problem somewhere and it may be more common than he possibly thinks.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Sleep-apnoea/Pages/Introduction.aspx

[Patf]

Poor you! I know what it's like, my husband is similar. The times I've said "do it yourself then".

Re sleep apnoea - my friend's husband has that and uses a private service, rec. by his doctor, who provides the mask etc and visits regularly to see if it's working. It doesn't cost him anything. So if your husband becomes more amenable...

And the ambulance bill - glad you got it sorted. We once had a bill for nearly 2000€ when husband was taken to hospital in an ambulance (sent for by our doctor) and had 3 days in intensive care. CPAM had covered 70% of the bill, and this was the remaining one third, we didn't have a mutuelle at the time.

[Chancer]

I think that I had it when I was overweight, I certainly was a heavy snorer, since losing weight and getting fit loads of health issues that I just accepted have gone, thinking about it several could have been due to apnoea (thanks for the correct spelling)

 

My elder sister whose footsteps I was following in was finally diagnosed after attending a sleep clinic, when she was faced with the undeniable evidence and learned that she would probably one day die in her sleep she reluctantly accepted to try out the positive air pressure sleeping mask, after one night she was a completely different person, she said she had the awareness and energy levels of 20 years hence and was convinced.

 

If the same monitored sleep clinic is available to your husband he could really benefit and most likely would be less grumpy [:D]

[EuroTrash]

To be honest if I was offered a choice of how to go, dying in my sleep would be top of the list. In fact I think it would be the only one on the list. I wouldn't odds it.

[mint]

[quote user="Chancer"]

I think that I had it when I was overweight, I certainly was a heavy snorer, since losing weight and getting fit loads of health issues that I just accepted have gone, thinking about it several could have been due to apnoea (thanks for the correct spelling)

  [:D][/quote]

Chessie, I am tiptoeing here because I don't want to sound crass and uncaring.  Chance has hit on something I have observed.

A friend's husband in the UK had it.  Here in France a German friend has it and is using the mask thing.  A French friend also has it and is awaiting an appointment with a specialist.

There IS a common factor.  All are overweight and all do not take any exercise.  Now, without meeting your husband, I don't know if he is overweight so please excuse me if that is not the case.

Other thing of course is that even if he is overweight and that that is a contributing factor, he might not want to do anything about it!!

As I say, I am not unsympathetic and I have NO scientific data whatsoever to rely on; it's just an explanation and my own conclusion.  It could be that all three people I know with this condition just happens (happened in one case) to be overweight.  It might be worth exploring...if I have offended you, I am sorry.  I mean my post to be constructive![:)]

[idun]

Chessie I have been thinking about you a lot.

I have a friend in a similar situation whose husband is frankly and this is just my opinion, a bully and vile with her. That is this good friend looking in, and when I visit, he cannot do enough for me, charming in fact, and has the audacity to ignore her, ie asking me if I want a cuppa and not her. If he could read my thoughts, maybe he would simply avoid me. I keep up very good manners for the sake of my friend and simply 'listen' to her rarely making comment, because, I know she will never leave, she is such a caring good egg. Also, his family think that the sun shines out of his backside, it is a second marriage.

Chessie, what is now worrying me even more is that you are not sleeping properly, and that will wear you down. Maybe you should see your GP, maybe ask him to go with you, tell the GP that you are not sleeping and why and all your worries about him. Just a suggestion and this instead of him having the appointment.

 And re the telly, any chance of getting one of these boxes that allow you to watch in two rooms????

My very best wishes and I wish you the very best of luck and some decent sleep.

[Chancer]

Wearing a positive pressure mask will yield instant and life changing results, prolonged weight loss and exercise might do the same but need a lot more determination and there is no guarantee re the snoring/apnoae my father was slim but a very heavy snorer, he may have had apnoae I dont know.

 

Being fit and a healthy weight yeild loads of benefits, I'm not saying it isn't desirable but takes hard work and determination, the will may not be there to change the habits of a lifetime, one night in a sleep clinic and one night with the breathing device would overcome the most stubborn of people if they are apnoae sufferers.

 

Actually its the partners who are the sufferers!!!

[alittlebitfrench]

Just like to jump in on this thread...ALBF being a bit serious now.

I suffered from this problem for a long time which has now be solved ....but it is actually down to an allergy. I saw an allergologist and I now take medication that solves the problem. HBP can also result from an allergy.

Don't rule out allergies (especially if you are living rural) as a cause, they more often than not start in later life as mine did.

[Chancer]

Is an allergy to work an ALD?

[alittlebitfrench]

What is an ALD ?

[chessie]

Mint - please don't worry about 'tip-toeing' here - I'm a big grown-up girl and I know that whatever advice/help given here is done for the nicest reasons - please don't worry !

Wish it was as simple as being fat;  would be lovely explanation.  However, he isn't - he's tall and slim - if anything slightly underweight for his height.   So that's not the explanation for his sleep apneoa.  Neither is he a smoker, and hardly drinks even when we're socialising - so he doesn't fit into the normal profile at all.

The big problem is his utter - and total absolute refusal to accept he has a problem - won't hear of it, refuses to listen - and then when I insist he does have a problem I get the classic - 'well you snore as well...' !!!   When I point out that yes I might but I do not stop breathing he refuses to talk about it any more, starts to get furious and goes off on a rant... It's unbelievable, honestly;  he can be very difficult and very bad-tempered.

I really don't see how I can get him to take steps to sort out his problem - if he refuses to accept he has a problem in the first place.    I just lie in bed, listening to him breathing, and being aware that his breathing is becoming shallow, and then there's a long, long pause in the breathing (I've counted up to 45 seconds before now (and I do know it's 100, 200, 300 etc) - and I think 'hmm do I pinch him, nudge him...' - or is he going to start breathing again.  

So far he always has done !!!!!!!!

It is very frightening - but what can I do - he will not listen or accept he has a problem.   Maybe I should put a small video camcorder going tucked away so he's not aware of it - and playback some of his more frightening non-breathing episodes - think it might be only option I have.

Apart from not being a spring-chicken anymore and he is naturally slowing down a bit, I'm well aware that his disturbed sleeping is definitely causing the 'slump in front of the telly, all day, every day' - and led to my appeal for help about a radio so that I don't have to listen to the infernal telly day in, day out.   I'll swear I could write all the scripts for Homes under Hammer, Bargain Hunt, Flog it, Heartbeat, Judge Judy, Miss Marple, Midsomer etc etc - you can all get the picture I'm sure.    He'll even watch repeats of repeats - and then pretend he doesn't remember seeing the programme the first time, or the tenth time !!!

Oh dear - we have meandered well away from my original panicked post haven't we.  

I really would like to thank everyone who responded;  helped put me straight; and given words of help and advice.   One of the many reasons I love this forum;  we may have differeing political or other views - but when help and advice is needed - it's there - for which I am enormously grateful, believe me.

Now need to get wifi and internet radio - then maybe separate beds in separate bedrooms, and maybe an annexe for me as well !!!

Thank you so much everyone, and we've got the summer to look forward to - enjoy .

Chessie

[lindal1000]

Could you tape/video him during his sleep and then show it to him? I don't know how easy that would be or whether it would make a difference but at least he couldn't deny it.

[mint]

Well, Chessie, no one can accuse you of having lost your sense of humour[;-)]

[NormanH]

chessie

Might do people some good if they were just sent an 'informative'

document letting them know exactly how much in financial terms their

treatment/emergency assistance/ etc has cost.

I think that is one of the best things about the French system, the monthly statement you get showing how much you have cost the heath service. Sometimes my is a terrifying amount.

I have had the Positive pressure mask for 14 years and it does help me a lot, but sometimes as at the moment there are little problems such as leaks from the edges of the mask in the night.

I do fit into all the categories mint has outlined though so I am not much use in helping to explain what your husband's problem is.

[mogs]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]To be honest if I was offered a choice of how to go, dying in my sleep would be top of the list. In fact I think it would be the only one on the list. I wouldn't odds it.[/quote]

My Dad did, nice for him I suppose but not for us and my elderly Mum who found him.

I like to think he died peacefully but we'll never know as they never carried out a PM to establish cause of death as he was seeing the dr after a bout of pnumonia.

To Chessie, it sounds like you have a war on your hands trying to get him to see a dr and get help. What is it with (some) men that they have to always deny anything is wrong yet complain all the time with their problem? Good luck