Advice on where in France

[rrslk]

Hi there! We are considering moving to France within the next 12 months.

However our concern is WHERE about in France do we move to?

We are in our 40s and have a new baby on the way.

We have a son who is 22 and has left home, he lives with his girlfriend and his new born baby. So they will want somewhere that is busy not too far away from where we live, maybe near the beach.

So even though they will not be initially moving with us, we do want somewhere they will enjoy going, so maybe not somewhere surrounded by 20 miles of vineyards.

We want somewhere hotter then the uk (obviously), but somewhere that the properties are not too expensive. We are looking for somewhere tranquil, a nice 3 bedroom + property, that is modernish, where we can build a pool, but does have a few acres of land, with maybe some outbuildings we could convert for a separate property for our son.

We are contempory people so we would like or convert the french interea to just nice new english styles, a home from home really for us.

All help is really appreciated as we are so new to this...We are looking at maybe £200k to spend.

Property examples would be great as well....

[woolybanana]

Ever thought of Sicily?[6]

Welcome to the forum. Now just wait for the welter of good advice and practical tips which will fall from the finger tips of our members. Though after the end of the bottle appears, it may be less useful!

[Russethouse]

 

Welcome to the forum

It would be helpful to know if either of you are intending to work after you move and roughly the type of work, in addition have you looked into the healthcare implications, esp as you have a little one on the way..congratulations by the way....

At first look my feeling would be you should look down the West Coast regions, south of the Loire, but remember many seaside places close for the winter and are often more expensive

BTW Many places are just as cold as the UK in the winter, so check out average winter temperatures too.

PS No bottle in use here ;-)

 

 

[rrslk]

I have never really considered any specific place at all.

I hate flying but do enjoy driving. We live in NW england, so 8 hours to get to euro tunnel before we start. Obviously the less we have to drive the better, but when you consider than better house for an extra hours drive! Absolutely....

What can we get for out money there?

[rrslk]

Hi there, my work is all email, telephone, internet based in uk. Which i can control from France.

Initially like most people we would just go to France for a few weeks at a time, then come back to the uk. Eventually make it longer and longer. dependent on finances etc

We will obviously drive out there, and a 30 minute drive to the coast would not be an issue if it meant getting a more superior property in land.

So i suppose you would say it would be a holiday home for first 12 months, then if we are all happy gradually make it more permanent.

[Russethouse]

Others can advise better than I, but before moving completely you would have to look into your employment status, and if self employed which regime would be most beneficial.

I think Right Move have a French site

[KathyF]

if your work depends on the internet and other telecommunications, my main piece of advice to you would be to check the availability of decent broadband if you're house-hunting anywhere outside a town or large village. France is three times the size of the UK with a similar sized population and many rural areas are very poorly served by ADSL and have to rely on expensive satellite broadband.

We bought our second home here well before broadband was thought of and are lucky that we're close enough to the exchange to get proper broadband. Many houses only a few kilometres away can't get ADSL at all.

[Val_2]

€200,000 is not a lot of money for what you are wishing these days although there are many desperate brits trying to sell for years already to return to the UK so you may find a bargain. Remember that the south of France in winter is actually much much colder than the north west and the south also suffers terrible storms and flooding during the summer too as recently seen on TV yet again. I would suggest you rent for at least a year to find your feet because should you sell up and move lock,stock and barrell and find you cannot adjust to the language and culture difference,you will be stuck if you cannot sell for several years as people are already finding with the property market all but stagnant in many many areas of France. Have you considered what would happen if you should change your work or be made redundant etc, no one is safe these days, as unemployment is fair higher in France and jobs would be hard to come by without the relevent qualifications and fluent french language? After nearly 24years of France I have seen a lot of people throw in the towel and return because of many reasons, mostly because they miss their families and have elderly parents who need caring for or they simply run out of money and cannot get work nor benefits until they pay into the french system for several years first. The grass is not greener here, simply different so be aware of all responses to your posting however negative to you they may sound because remember people like me and many others on this forum have been here a very long time and raised families and worked here too and know the pitfalls you are likely to encounter than you cannot find out until you actually live here.

[tinabee]

[quote user="rrslk"]Hi there, my work is all email, telephone, internet based in uk. Which i can control from France. Initially like most people we would just go to France for a few weeks at a time, then come back to the uk. Eventually make it longer and longer. dependent on finances etc We will obviously drive out there, and a 30 minute drive to the coast would not be an issue if it meant getting a more superior property in land. So i suppose you would say it would be a holiday home for first 12 months, then if we are all happy gradually make it more permanent.[/quote]

A few acres of land takes quite a lot of maintenance if it is a holiday home and you are away from it for long periods.

[woolybanana]

To get some idea of house prices, have a look on Leboncoin and Green Acres.com.

[Benjamin]

Where we lived in 85 on the West coast (although that's probably too far for you) it was generally held that there is a 10 kilometre strip back from the coast that commands a higher price than further back inland.

When we bought we pointed out to the vendors that it was a journey of at least 25 minutes down country lanes to the coast but when we ourselves became vendors that time miraculously decreased to"12 to 13 minutes".

[Val_2]

Exactly as I live less than 7mins by car from the beach but when I walk the dog down, it takes upto 35 mins on foot. We timed it over the years and depending on which local beach you go to as well depends on the access by road and some are winding and slow. I love the "5 minutes" to Super U locally, yes if you go by Concorde!

[NormanH]

I would second Val's post.

200,000 isn't much in the South especially near the sea, and secondly rent first as you cab never know the good and bad areas without spending time in a place.

You can get some ideas of prices without the hassle of agents by looking on leboncoin

Here is a page I just opened though it changes rapidly

http://www.leboncoin.fr/ventes_immobilieres/offres/poitou_charentes/?f=a&th=1&pe=8

you can do that for various regions from the initial page of the site..

[idun]

I don't get how you will run your business without having a branch of it being registered in France. I really thought that it is where you do the work that counts, and not the country it is for, so where you park your bottom whilst doing the work, basically.

And if I am right, then the cotisations will be  high.

Your son and concubine will need employment too??? One cannot sign on just like that, in France either. And for all it isn't much, no family allowance for the first child.

There is health care to consider and mutualists which even for younger movers like yourselves can be expensive and yet another thing to budget for.

The weather can be cold and damp in many areas of the south of France in autumn and winter, and when I say cold, it can be far colder than the UK and I am from the North of UK. A year is not just the summer and in some areas winter is rather 'dead'.

Look on the French Embassy web site in London, lots and lots of useful info on there. And the Moving Abroad section of the NHS.

And then there is your and your families french. Good I hope. Any info you need is on the web these days including all the adverts you want for properties. And just because it is cheap, ask yourself why. There are rubbish parts of France like anywhere else. Read french papers and news headlines and watch french tv, if you have SKY, TV5 Monde is on 799.

Whatever you get told on here, check officially. You can get some good advise on here, but rules change, things change, and it will be down to you to make sure that you have everything sorted out properly. I would rather like to think that the advice on here sends people in the right direction, rather than being set in stone.

[Sprogster]

I have a house in south east France near the sea and if the truth be known the weather in the south of France from late October until May is not good and much colder than you might imagine, with snow right down to the Med last winter. In fact in recent years the winters have been very wet and cold, so would suggest you spend a winter in France before comitting as if a hotter climate is one of yoir motivating factors you might want to re-consider and go further south like Oz!

The other important factor to check is the cost of running your business in France, as France is not self employed friendly with very high social security costs that can swallow up half the business income.

Last but not least I think you will have a shock as to the price of property in the south of France and I would concur with other posters that your budget won't go far, especially with the weakening £.

On the positive side, property prices in France are in the doldrums and forecast to continue to decline over the next few years, so no need to rush.

The most common advice given to new posters considering moving to France is rent before you buy, as selling in the current French economic enviroment can be a challenge, take years and involves far higher costs than the UK. As if you decide after a year or two in France that things are not working out, you don't want to find yourself stuck with house that you cannot sell, a predicament many Brits currently find themselves in.

[YCCMB]

Some sound advice and good suggestions already. I'm going to take the kid gloves off. Don't do it.

If you know so little of France that you have to ask a bunch of strangers on an Internet forum which part of the country you should move to, then please, please, before you do anything else, spend a long time reading up about the French taxation and social security systems, follow some of the excellent suggestions above and read the suggested websites, inform yourself about France's current levels of unemployment , and so on. Then come and spend time in France in a Gite in November, or February. Visit some seaside towns in winter, when everything is closed. Check out the prices of baby clothes, children's shoes, supermarket shopping.

I sincerely apologise if you have already done all the above, if your desire to move to France is supported by solid research and sound knowledge of what lies in store. Only, I'd say much of the above if someone asked me in the same way where they should settle in the UK. If you don't know the country well enough to decide for yourself, then I simply question your decision.

[PaulT]

Waterstones normally have a good selection of books about moving to France, including running a business.

As for the winter thing I second even third or fourth what has been said. Until this year our winter visits were normally just a week and then came retirement and spending January and February in France - we have vowed that we will not do it again. Yes, a few sunny warm days but a whole load of wet freezing cold days and an email from a neighbour just after we got back to the UK informing us that we had missed the snow.

[Sprogster]

The main reason we chose the South of France is that whilst we were realistic and did not expect warm weather in the winter, we did assume looking at the Cote D'Azur's historical sunshine record, that  it would be relatively sunny, even if it was cold. What we did not anticipate was climate change and the run of bad winters we are currently experiencing, which most weather experts are predicting will last another ten years or so. So instead of sunny crisp winter days, we have had continous amounts of record rainfall, wind, storms and sub zero daytime temperatures with snow even down on the Med coast! All a bit of a bummer really, as it is back to the drawing board as to where to go for the winters when we retire.

Still love our little area of France, but a winter retreat from the rain and cold of a northern European winter, it is not!!

[idun]

Please do not think that the grass is greener in France.

You are probably thinking that there are sour grapes on here, or some such thing. And you are probably thinking that 'they' did it, as lots and lots have and your are assuming have been a success, but of those that move to France end up moving back within a very few years, is a huge number.

And those that would like to leave at the moment is probably an awful lot.

Youth unemployment in France, is even worse now, and it was always dire.Unemployment is worse than the UK. The labour laws are not the same as the UK, in fact lots of things are very very different and it is a mistake to think that very much is as you are comfortable with, including the inheritance laws. As was said on Yes Minister, 'I don't know, what you don't know', but it feels like you don't know much.

Please don't watch old Amanda Lamb type programs, where all is tickety boo.

As you work from home, there is no reason why you cannot rent a gite or two for several months this winter and see if you cannot get a good connection. But remember to be doing your research too, ie working from home in France and the URSSAF.

I mentioned on here a few months ago that my son was having a job getting somewhere to rent. Well he managed in the end, after a right battle, not far from his old place. In a big city and his phone and internet connections are often 'down', they can get neither in their quartier for days at a time. Fortunately they don't need their landline phone much as they use their mobiles and can manage without internet, but it sounds like you cannot.

[rrslk]

WOW

Not many positives in there.

OK i dont have to move to the south of France, however i suppose that is the hottest part.

I may do exactly what ALL you nice people have said and try before you buy. I may also look at spain as well, for an extra half day drive to get better value for money on a property, better whether, cheaper living, and maybe more prospects for my son etc. I think i would find a nice villa 10 minutes from the sea with a pool for £250k from what i have seen on the internet. Again its just finding the right town to buy in.

I dont think i will EVER sell my uk house so we always have a home if we want to come back, and i think for at least the first 2 years i will do a month abroad and a month in the uk. This makes things better for work, seeing how my wife copes abroad and also making sure we get the right area we need.

[idun]

 And apparently it can get cold in Spain in winter too. Even on the south coast. Get some reruns of  nightmare in the sun, from UK tv. There are some odd property laws in Spain, when one's land can just be taken, just like that, or people don't actually own where they thought that they have bought.

I'm not sure if the south coast of France is always the hottest. We lived in the Alpes and when we were there, it was often as hot in summer as the south. The good thing about the winters was that the cold was usually 'dry' cold, but again, that is not always the case, depends where. Autumns and spring we had rain and cool days.

If you wanted rose coloured specs, then you are about 7 years or so, too late on this board. You will probably have got quite a lot of comments....... come on in, the water is warm........; but that was then. And many who would have said that, have returned to the UK and those that stayed, make very sensible comments now.

[Val_2]

Spain v healthcare = be very very very careful and possibly afraid! Not the same boat as France, OK for the wealthy but for the ordinary family can be a nightmare. My brother's inlaws moved back from Murcia two years ago after nearly 15years out there,mainly for the warmth as his FIL suffers from debilitating arthritis but as time wore on, even with two very good pensions coming in monthly, they could no longer afford the cost of their healthcare and keeping up with the cost of living plus 40+°C in summer used to drive them back to the UK for two or three months.

[YCCMB]

You're going to hate me with a passion, but then so do a lot of people on here, and my shoulders are broader then those of a very broad shouldered person..

The majority of folks who are still living in France, who arrived 10 or more years ago in the halcyon days of almost 1.5 euros to the pound, cheap properties to do up and before every episode of "a place in the sun" was a repeat, are (and were when they arrived) retirees with, in general, a decent enough pension. They can "afford" to stay because they have modest needs and the means to meet them. Many people who came to work gave up and went back. A few have successfully set up businesses. A few.

Spain? Yes, better weather, no doubt. However, in the UK I teach English as a foreign language. Over the last couple of years, the number of Spanish students in my classes has increased exponentially. A few years ago, there were none. Today, they can make up as much as 50% of my students. Why? Well, quite simply, there is a mass exodus of under 25's and older from Spain because unemployment among that age group in Spain is so eyewateringly high. And these are qualified, intelligent young people, with degrees, experience and everything, moving to the UK to work in pubs, hotels, factories, anywhere they can earn a living.

[NormanH]

They can "afford" to stay because they have modest needs and the means to meet them

This is the crux of the matter.

I have a small pension but no mortgage, no car, and spend very little apart from food,   my Internet subscription and small houshold bills .

My Mutuelle (the 'top up' health insurance which many people choose to have) is my biggest single outgoing.

I am happy like this but it is not a lifestyle many younger people would choose...

[Aly]

I think Bettys advise is really sound. Oh if only someone had given me that sort advise when I was thinking of a move to France. Thankfully I have now left although  I am still stuck with a huge house in the middle of nowhere. You should definetly rent first, Think carefully abt where you buy. The net is full of hundreds of pages of adverts for French houses many are gites or guesthouses renovated by an army of North European expats. Think abt what you can re sell if needed otherwise you could be waiting years.. Do not renovate as it adds little value but costs buckets. You will probably be entitled to at least 2 years cover for Healthcare based on your UK contributions, maybe more if you work exclusively in the UK

You will have to declare tax in France even if  your work is solely  in the UK and even if you are paid in the UK. If you do anywork in France  then that may complicate things furthur. As the French may claim that your work is not exclusively UK based and tax you differently.  You will also  pay tax on any rental income in the UK and declare that in France for your tax banding. Other things to consider are French inheritance laws and Capital gains on sales of property as well as French wealth tax which is on you world wide wealth. I think the  tax applies after 5 years of residency and is for all wealth over 750.000 Euro.Spain I would avoid for all the reasons outlined. I moved to Germany. They do not tax you at all on UK rental income and are not interested in it. They have no tax habitation or fonciere or council tax, You just pay for rubbish collection. Cost of living is probably 20% less then France. But winters are cold. I love it and sorry to sound so negative, My advise do research I wish I had done!