Cost of Living

[Lillythepink<STRONG><EM>Lillythepink<EM><STRONG>]

My partner and I are seriously looking into moving to France as soon as possible, around the Loire/Charentes area.  We are looking for a 4 bed farmhouse with at least 3 acres for chickens etc, with outbuildings for gites.

Most of the information we need, i.e. pensions, insurance, health care we can find out by this website and others.  The one thing we can't find out is the cost of living, and I don't mean just for groceries.

Would any one be willing to talk to me via emails to let me know some costs of electricity, water rates, oil/gas, coal/wood, council taxes, car insurance/tax/mot/breakdown/servicing, dog insurance, caravan insurance, house and contents insurance, swimming pool chemicals and maintenance etc etc etc.

These are the most important expenses to consider and nobody really prints an idea of what to expect.

Is anyone willing to help us?

Merci

[Will]

I'll start off by saying something that will probably upset a few people, and that is that whatever comparisons may have been made in the past France is not a cheap place to live. Some things are cheaper than Britain, but a lot of other things are dearer.

Moreover, some things, like water charges and the equivalents to UK council taxes, vary widely between areas, and the ways in which the are charged are quite different, so unless you can be very specific about areas comparisons are impossible. Of course if you move from London to, say, rural Mayenne, you will find a lot of things seem cheaper, conversely if you move from, say, Norfolk, to many popular areas in the south of France you will be amazed how much you pay.

Based on our experiences, from your list, I'll say: electricity - generally dearer than UK; water rates- generally cheaper in France; oil/gas - considerably dearer in France, coal - virtually non-existent in France, wood - probably much the same, maybe a bit dearer in France; council taxes - mostly significantly less but great variation; car insurance/tax/mot/breakdown/servicing - overall probably the same or perhaps slightly less in France (e.g. no road tax, but you can pay a lot for the registration document for a high-rated vehiicle); dog insurance, caravan insurance - don't know; house and contents insurance - probably cheaper in France; swimming pool chemicals and maintenance - don't know.

As I say, that's from our experience, others will have drawn different conclusions. You need to talk to people in your chosen area to get any meaningful comparison.

Cost of living is not a justification for moving to France - there are plenty of other more important factors.

 

[Lillythepink<STRONG><EM>Lillythepink<EM><STRONG>]

Thanks for that Will, I understand what you're saying.

The cost is not our only justification for moving - far from it.  We want to know what to prepare ourselves for financially - its no point up sticks and moving if we find once we are there we can't afford it, as we would like to work less hours.

I appreciate your frankness and talking to members is priceless as you guys are out there and have all the experience.

Hope your French life is good! Thanks again.

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

[quote]I'll start off by saying something that will probably upset a few people, and that is that whatever comparisons may have been made in the past France is not a cheap place to live. Some things are chea...[/quote]

Interesting that. We are originaly from Ulster where we paid about 3 times as much for our electric as opposed to mainland UK. Also petrol, diesel, food and indeed darn near everything was expensive.

We now find that living in France (for us) costs us roughly about half of what it did back in the UK. Take insurance for instance, for our house, car and Tranny Van we pay about 300 quid a year as opposed to 1,000 quid for the van, 350 quid for the car and about 350 quid for the house!

Bit of a shock though when we found it is obligatory to insure your kids for school!

On the reverse side, a mate of ours who hails from London reckons it costs him about the same to live here. Amazing differences of costs over britain!

 

 

[Logan]

I have not lived in UK for a long time. However for a couple to live in rural France with an average property, finished and paid for plus a reasonable lifestyle ( 1 car, modest social life, short holidays etc.) 1200 euros (£833) a month should be enough to get by with. I include Medicare and all your domestic bills. If you want a more riotous life you will need more.

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

[quote]I have not lived in UK for a long time. However for a couple to live in rural France with an average property, finished and paid for plus a reasonable lifestyle ( 1 car, modest social life, short holi...[/quote]

The French authorities deem that a family of 4 needs a minimum of roughly

900 euros to live on so I suppose 1200 would be a bit of a bonus!

[Val_2]

Electricity and town piped gas go up on November 1st here in France,health mutuelles continually rising and unemployment   growing again. Already much discontent brewing here with thousands of caulis dumped on the local petrol station at Super U during the night over the cost of diesel/petrol etc. No one should say it is cheaper to live in France especially day to day living because it is not, even if rates and road tax are taken into account because you are stung elsewhere and you pay on time or get interest added. Holidaymakers wouldn't notice it,but when you do a big weekly shop of nearly always the same things,the prices are sneakily increased every few weeks.

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

No one should say it is cheaper to live in France especially day to day living because it is not, even if rates and road tax are taken into account because you are stung elsewhere and you pay on time or get interest added.

You sound rather bitter! As different parts of Britain have fluctuations in pricing (read my post), I'm sure there are other people like us, who find it a lot cheaper to live compared to what they have left behind. By the same token I'm sure there are lots of people (like yourself) who find it extremely expensive to live in France but everyone (like yourself) are entitled to express what they feel about a subject or how else eill we learn?

[Iceni]

Having lived here for a year my advice would be - assume that the cost of living (other than the capital cost of yr house) will be the same as you now suffer. I believe it is cheaper here but then we try to live like peasants by eating sorrel, dandelion leaves and other freebies.

John

[Stocky]

I agree with Iceni, we know from our visits that cost of living is going up in France, but it is also going up in UK and other countries.  Price of Oil/Deisel is increasing, the tax free use in farming in our area has shown a 33+% increase in diesel.  Regardless of ones income it is a fact of life that you will always overspend due to the way of life.

We hope to move there soon, on pensions where we will be controlled by exchange rates rather than income, and will spend accordingly, possibly shopping based on the special offers from the various supermarkets. 

I don't look at the cost of living, I belive in the joy of living.

Ian

[Patf]

Stocky's comment about the exchange rate is important if your income is derived from uk,  eg pensions. We came here two and a half years ago and transfer funds every 3 months. The equivalent euro value has dropped  significantly over that time. On the other hand if we had waited until now to move our house would have cost about another £10,000. Pat.

[Jonzjob]

[quote]Having lived here for a year my advice would be - assume that the cost of living (other than the capital cost of yr house) will be the same as you now suffer. I believe it is cheaper here but then we ...[/quote]

Dandylion leaves! Where did you find them, we are suffering withdrawal symptoms since we bin here. They formed a part of our base diet in Stroud. Not seen any in the Aude.

Seriously, we came over for the way of life and to be able to grow old the way we want to. If you want to live on 'Bio' foods and avoid all the chemical additives, salt and sugar that go into most convenience foods then we have found that it is more expensive here than Stroud, centre for the Green's. It is your choice and you can live more cheaply by following the special offers, we do that too when it suits us. It's up to you.

John.

[Logan]

Most rural French supplement their incomes by self sufficiency. A good sized veggie patch, hens, ducks and chickens. A goat perhaps. My garden provides all fruit and vegetable needs and we preserve enough for the winter months. It's very rewarding, hard work and time consuming. I often see fresh seasonal produce in the supermarkets at silly prices and realise I have a small gold mine in my garden. It is possible to live life in France on far less than is needed in UK. That is largely because French rural life is simple and less demanding. Incomes may be lower here, yet so are needs. The quality of life in my opinion far exceeds that of the UK. I would sum it up as UK bigger bucks smaller life. France smaller bucks bigger life.

[Val_2]

To Neutralzone, I am not bitter just realistic. When you run a business and get paid in euros and with certain foreign clients taking forever to cough up,have five vehicles on the road and all that entails,have two teenagers to feed & clothe with one living in her own studio and running a car because her studies are over 100km away,day to day living needs and making sure we always have enough to cover the end of month bills you can see why it is not cheaper to live here. Of course the standard of living is better in some cases and in others not,especially where people are spending all their savings renovating property which they would never have done if they were still inthe UK. Its a case of each to their own and if you have plenty of money and a good pension then, yes, you will find it cheaper,but those of us who have to work to live do not find it any cheaper because we have a lot of social charges to pay that we did not have in the UK. Being self sufficient is fine and we grow our own veg but it does not pay the bills and anyone contemplating moving here just on the proviso it is cheaper,needs to do their sums carefully if they have a restricted income. A good example is today's paper explaining how our local veg growers are paying 6centimes per plant and then at the end of the day,after paying all charges are only coming out with 6centimes. Strikes resume on Tuesday again here!

[Lizzie15]

"The joy of living"-lovely phrase-I agree.I must say tho that(having afoot in both Uk and France)over the last few years my experience has been that prices in France -generally-have gone up more than in my bit of the UK(stratford upon Avon).I now buy more and more in England and transport it to France,food mainly-which is weird cos the food in France used to be one of the things I loved about the country. Oh well,still a lovely place to be but not cheap!!

[Liz]

I agree with those that have said it is roughly the same in France as the UK. There are so many ifs buts and maybees it is almost impossible to say. Each family budget is different and things I think are a gross extravagance are essentials to some people and vice versa. I notice the original post mentioned costs for swimming pool - that to me would be a cost I would not wish to bear in the UK or France but, no doubt, others find it a necessity.

The big stumbling block in all this is not how much various items cost but how much you have coming in. If you are on a pension which comes from another currency it is essential to bear in mind that the relatively good exchange rate may not last. Some years ago UK pensioners in France saw their income drop massively. It could well happen again.

LIz (29)

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

Hi Val 2, yup I do understand your position (and costs) and I must say I have noticed the prices going up but as I said for us, coming from a very expensive part of the UK (in terms of goods & petrol/diesel) it is cheaper and a better life style although we also have to work to survive.

As you say, the social charges do seem quite high considering in Britain if your self employed and earning very little, you can get small earnings exemption (not sure if the French have anything like that) but at the end of the day the French pay the same, no?

 

[Kazanton]

I think it is more expensive to live here in France than in the Cheshire, Albuquerque or say, Vermont. But less expensive than San Diego, LA or Chiswick.

The cost of meat is what gets me. I am astonished that I can't afford to buy more than I do, even if I used the same food budget I had in the UK, which I can't afford to do because other things are so much more expensive.

It is not cheap here.

Luckily thats not why I am here... for me its quality of life. I am willing to give up some things to have others. And you get what you pay for, I suppose.

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

The cost of meat is what gets me. I am astonished that I can't afford to buy more than I do, even if I used the same food budget I had in the UK, which I can't afford to do because other things are so much more expensive

I know you might not believe this but we find chicken to be seriously expensive here.

All the other types of meat (compared to what we are used to) are actually very cheap!

I just think its amazing the difference in peoples perception to prices.

Cheapest chicken I ever had was in Malaya from an old lady on the bus!!!! (they cart crates of 'em via public transport)

 

 

[Logan]

Free range farm chickens are not the same as cheap mass produced battery chickens who never see the light of day. One chicken is not like another. If you want quality you pay a premium. The difference between the two is worth the cost.

The quality of food in France generally in my opinion is much better than the UK. To get the equivalent quality of food in UK you would need to shop at specialty outlets and farm shops who provide a similar product but at a much higher price. It is not simply comparing apples with pears. The French people demand high quality food and will not settle for less. They also expect it at a reasonable price. Hence the fierce battles between the supermarkets. However life in France is also high quality and how to you put a premium on that?

[Miki]

Free range farm chickens are not the same as cheap mass produced battery chickens who never see the light of day. One chicken is not like another. If you want quality you pay a premium. The difference between the two is worth the cost.

That is the same the world over, it is not the privelege of France alone is it?

The quality of food in France generally in my opinion is much better than the UK. To get the equivalent quality of food in UK you would need to shop at specialty outlets and farm shops who provide a similar product but at a much higher price.

I know it is only your opinion and therefore I must live with another breed of French person. Sure the French like to buy good food just as people in the UK like to do but the same problem lies within all folks, it is personal wealth and how much one has, that dictates what one buys. The fastest growing chains of shops are places like Lidl and Netto etc although the food is no doubt OK in those shops, one would not call that "demanding" quality food, is it?

 It is not simply comparing apples with pears. The French people demand high quality food and will not settle for less. They also expect it at a reasonable price. Hence the fierce battles between the supermarkets. However life in France is also high quality and how to you put a premium on that?

Same thing in the UK, where the supermarkets are always battling for supremacy with money off deals etc etc. "French will not settle for less" tell that to the millions on the chomage and others less well off. Let's get real, it is a fallacy, that was partly the case once here no doubt and, many still strive for the best foods etc, same thing in the UK, surely ? but it is not economically viable for several million people to do so in France now, I'm afraid.

Who say's life is high quality? Those from Britain who have no money worries ? Those Brits that live in the countryside with no mortgage and freezers full of food etc (I could go on) or the millions of French who can barely scrape enough together, to even take a days holiday ?

Sorry reality can be very different once the blinkers come off.

I will be attacked for this no doubt but there it is....................

 

 

[Quillan]

"I will be attacked for this no doubt but there it is...................."

I'm with you Miki.

As you know I have not long come back from visiting the UK after being away for nearly 2 years. The cost of food, as I have said before, is roughly the same now on an average family weekly shop.

Food quality on reflection is better in France but I would say thats because the food in supermarkets in the UK is so dire now and people are use to it. The main thing in the UK is to make produce look fresh which supermarkets will do at any cost, usually at the cost of quality. In my area I notice that the veg in Champions is changed around every other week and you have to know what you are looking for and when which gives the impression that the french are for disconcerning about what they buy.

I think that your attitude changes the more you live here and that it's a lot different (to steal anothers phrase) if you have one foot in the UK and the other in France and your income is derived from the UK.

[Will]

I know what you are saying, Miki and Quillan, and agree in principle. 

I go back to England fairly frequently (one of the few benefits of earning my living in sterling) so can compare everyday England with everyday France rather than holiday France. I quite agree that the bargain basement stuff in British supermarkets is generally pretty dire, but then so is most of the stuff in Netto and the cheapo ranges like Leclerc's Eco. Certainly a cheap battery chicken (without getting into debates on farming morals) has more tender flesh and costs less in Britain.

Where France can't hold a candle to Britain is in the ranges like Tesco Finest, the M&S food range etc. There's just nothing to compare with these in rural France as far as I can see. I know it's unfashionable to look on UK food etc favourably in comparison with France, but that's my view. And I know French people cook for themselves rather than buy convenience food, but is that because they prefer it; because it's the way they have always done it (and remember plenty of rural French live off their own chickens, rabbits etc and rarely go to supermarkets); because they all can't afford anything better; or because they don't have the choice?

[Alexis]

The cheaper supermarkets have grown so popular that they have prompted the others to offer their own range of cheaper goods.  Not just the promo rubbish which can crop up - I'm thinking of the strangely coloured pasta here - but real, everyday stuff at competative prices.  Carrefour has even started their own budget shops.  Netto is Intermarché.  Super U have brought out the Bien Vu (?) line.

I like Lidl for veg  as it always seems fresh.  If you go the right day.  I'm always tempted to buy something and the freezer is growning with home grown stuff . . .  Once a month I go to Carrefour at St Brieuc and their meat is cheaper than anywhere if you buy the promotions and bang it in the freezer.

The older French people don't buy a lot of 'stuff' for their cupboards.  Gateau apperitifs, those hard pink biscuits/plain biscuits to offer with a glass of wine.  Long life milk, butter, sugar and a couple of bottles of rouge.  Thats about it in this village.  Oh, perhaps a saucisson if they haven't one curing.  I sometimes wish I was like that too!  Perhaps it is a British thing to hoard?  I can remember the sugar shortage and everyday on the way to work I had to buy a bag of sugar for my Mum.....  She must have had tons!

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

Chicken's crap here and if you try to buy a *large* turkey (say above 10 kg) they look at you as if your insane

All other gear is fine and I think reasonable.

I guess after you have had to live on tins of 50 euro cents Cassoulet for a few months you appreciate everything else

We used to hoard at the start and still do if we see good meat on offer but thats about it............as for netto............... quite good for cheap wine but very limited food range...... in fact I don't know why I'm typing all this.......