A cautionary tale

[Russethouse]

NZ - last year I had an interesting conversation about this topic, the guy I was talking too spoke reasonable English and had worked in London for several years, so I guess he was predisposed (is that the right word ?) to Brits, he lives in 56 now and said that on the whole the Bretons are happy to see the English restore properties, esp those with young families who help keep local schools open and help the local economies by spending money etc , but they have to be careful to integrate, not just give work to other Brits, or if they work, to work for and with English and French. Pretty much common sense stuff.

As far as house prices are concerned I think it was Mrs 'Quillan' who pointed out to a critical French person blaming the rise in the price of property on the Brits, that it is the often French seller who is really to blame

Another interesting thing concerning Brittany is the growing movement to include Loire Atlantique in Brittany officially again. It was part of Brittany and I think many from the region consider themselves Breton, but officially it is not now. Do you know anything about that Miki?

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

Absolutely correct RH I think it does revolve around the integration thing (although they are never going to admit they are wrong about the pricing of houses!). I find when working with them the first question I get is " why do you want to live in France?" Once that is answered it's plain sailing from there as they will moan to your face about Brits, houses, Tony Blair, Bush etc. etc. without batting an eyelid treating you as one of them and expecting you to agree with everything.

Of course they disagree with everything you say

 

[Crocus]

Hi Jo

I was very interested to read your posting as I have a 15 yr old daughter who started school in France in September and is very unhappy, she is refusing to go to school anymore, but she doesnt want to go back to England to finish school, so I was very interested to read about your daughter studying for her GCSE's at home which may be a possibility for my daughter, I would be very gratefull if you could tell me how to go about this any information would be helpfull. 

Good luck to your daughter.

Kind regards

Zoe

[Crocus]

Hi Jo

I was very interested to read your posting as I have a 15 yr old daughter who started school in France in September and is very unhappy, she is refusing to go to school anymore, but she doesnt want to go back to England to finish school, so I was very interested to read about your daughter studying for her GCSE's at home which may be a possibility for my daughter, I would be very gratefull if you could tell me how to go about this any information would be helpfull. 

Good luck to your daughter.

Kind regards

Zoe

[Deby]

Hello,

Have any of those parents (Miki etc) considered sending (or encouraging) your kids to go to a UK university when the time comes?  Or to another Eureopean University on an International course so to speak? 

I ask this as by going to a UK university would  open up the job opportunities post-degree.  Or attending an International Course either through a UK university or through another foreign university.   I studied in one of these environments along with my fellow french, spanish, dutch, swedish, german piers and pretty much everyone has successful careers now, inside and outside of the UK.  The fact that we were all different nationalities and had different weaknesses and strenghts made the degree successful.  I know it depends on the type of course your child studies and maybe there is no International course for a being a VET, but I certainly know of someone sending their son to train as a chef through a UK university and having finished his degree the doors of the world are wide open for him.

I did a joint degree with two universities, one in UK and one in Holland and the two institutions were very different, I liked the freedom that the UK university gave me, but it encouraged me to use my brain and not refer to text books and regurgitate the same stuff on paper!  The Dutch one taught me the importance of learning lots of facts and giving the lecturers what they wanted.

Going to a UK university/International course may in part open up a few doors for your young adults which they may not have here.

Just a thought!

Deby

[GRT17]

[quote]Hello, Have any of those parents (Miki etc) considered sending (or encouraging) your kids to go to a UK university when the time comes? Or to another Eureopean University on an International course ...[/quote]

A young friend of ours trained to be a Vet at Liverpool University and they certainly had other nationals on the course, particularly Norwegians.

Gill

[Russethouse]

In theory its an excellent plan, but start saving - even with our daughter having a student loan we reckoned we had to earn £15,000+ to fund her three years at Uni, and we are UK tax payers (although I'm sure someone will tell me there are reciprocal schemes within the EEC ?)

As well to be prepared for that sort of expense IMHO !

[Miki]

Have any of those parents (Miki etc) considered sending (or encouraging) your kids to go to a UK university when the time comes?  Or to another Eureopean University on an International course so to speak? 

Of all the British kids that we have known and have studied to Uni level, more than half have gone to Uni in the UK.One of those kids was born here as well but felt if she wanted to study (laguages) she would be better off going to Aberystwyth (sp) Uni to do the course there.

Our eldest lad didn't come to France with us but went to Uni in Swansea. He has done better than we could have imagined (touch wood etc) and no way, to our mind, could he have achieved anywhere near what he has done so far in the UK, here in France

I ask this as by going to a UK university would  open up the job opportunities post-degree.  Or attending an International Course either through a UK university or through another foreign university.  

It is my sincere belief that a young person would get a better opportunity to further their prospective careers in the UK than here. Of course, there may well be exceptions but as the exodus here only really started in approximately, around the mid 90's it is still too soon to have a fairer picture. Put it this way, I barely know of any young Brit that has left Lycée or Uni and gone on to a career here. That is not to put down the youngsters (far from it) that have gone to train at "Pro school" to be, boulangistes,  chefs etc or in the building trade but you asked about Uni.

Going to a UK university/International course may in part open up a few doors for your young adults which they may not have here.

Just a thought!

It's more than that, as I said, as I see it, I feel it is a very sensible route to take.

 

[eliane56]

Interesting thread this, and Im glad your daughter is re motivated and enjoying her learning again. I also thought it was interesting what the college teacher was saying. My daughter who was 17 last week finished her GCSEs in July, she was determined 2 years ago to come to France but I made her stay in UK to do GCSEs, she has gone into premier, jumping deuxieme, and coping with a Bac L.

We went back to UK for half term and she already said she wants to look for 6th forms back in uk for next september, and after the moody yesterday in apprehension of returning to lycee today I was ready to pack up and go. I must say that we havent done the complete move, hubby in uk still working and we are looking on this as a gap year if you like, so that at least we hope her french will improve even if she doesnt `leàrn`anything.

But if we make it thru the year Im sure she will stick it. The style of education is totally different,  she cannot believe some of the politics ( Im talking radical) in histoire-geo!! and the fact that the teachers talk at you, and after all that they give you philosphy in the terminale to teach you free thinking, the students blow hot and cold, but she is already talking about next years school trips etc

So those of you with older children dont be too put off but it pays to carry a thick skin

Bon Courage

[Tresco]

Elaine, thats fine for the parents, and what they go through, apart from where children are concerned. Just how thick do you expect your teenagers skin to be? How 'thick' was your 'skin' at 15 or 16?

I am genuinely flabbergasted.

[Mistral]

she cannot believe some of the politics ( Im talking radical) in histoire-geo!!

Out of interest, how radial are you talking about? Teachers aren't supposed to preach their own politics (it's only been a few years since they were even allowed to mention them) But I know quite a few who see certain things as "received wisdom" and will teach them as obvious fact.

 the fact that the teachers talk at you, and after all that they give you philosphy in the terminale to teach you free thinking

Not really, from what I've heard (and it's a bit out of date, Val, Miki... have things changed?) Philisophy is mostly learning what the "experts" have already written about various issues and then writing essays where you quote as many people as possible.

[Tourangelle]

I'm just wondering in what way she "jumped" seconde?  Given that it is the equivalent of year 11, then it is totally normal that somebody arriving would go into première.  The comment on history and geography teachers being radical is hilarious.  Do you have any idea how huge the programme is that they are supposed to get though in première?  I mean there are always people who are out there with their own agendas, as Mistral suggests, but lets not generalise!

Jane

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

[quote]Elaine, thats fine for the parents, and what they go through, apart from where children are concerned. Just how thick do you expect your teenagers skin to be? How 'thick' was your 'skin' at 15 or 16...[/quote]

Mine was thick!

I think the kids today need more backbone instilled in them and that parents should stop bitching about how my little tessa has to actually get out of bed and do something.

At 15 I had to get out of bed at 5am, walk 2 miles to catch the bus to take me 30 miles to where I served my apprenticeship. Same for return journey, I wasn't home until near 7 pm (and no it wasn't in the dark ages). 

You will probably find that the Brits are the only race on the planet that let their teenagers dictate to them.

Did any of you actually discuss moving to France with them? Did all of your family agree to move to France?

If yes get on with it, if no then the move was seriously flawed to start with.

You can argue all you want with this post BUT if you actually sit down and think about what I have said before blowing hot and cold you will realise I'm right!

[Charlotte3]

[quote]Elaine, thats fine for the parents, and what they go through, apart from where children are concerned. Just how thick do you expect your teenagers skin to be? How 'thick' was your 'skin' at 15 or 16...[/quote]

I left home as a teenager and was living and working on the continent. I didn't return to the uk for three years and by then I had lived and worked in four countries mostly working in bars, restaurants, hotels etc.

I hope with all my heart that my own two teenagers feel the need to fly the coop and stand on their own two feet when they leave lycee.  I have brought them up to be resourceful, independant, free thinking individuals, who try their best in everything they do. They have succeeded brilliantly since arriving here in France and when things have been very difficult for them have just put their shoulder to the wheel and got on with it. 

Thick skins?   No.....just lots of common sense and parental support.

 

Charlotte

[Charlotte3]

"At 15 I had to get out of bed at 5am, walk 2 miles to catch the bus to take me 30 miles to where I served my apprenticeship. Same for return journey, I wasn't home until near 7 pm (and no it wasn't in the dark ages)." 

Did you live in shoebox in the middle of the road as well?

Sorry, couldn't resist that!

Seriously though, I couldn't agree more.  We discussed the move with the children and took a family decision to move to France.  When things have been really difficult we remind ourselves of that decision and resolve to make the best of it.  Things always get sorted out eventually.

Charlotte

[Tresco]

I think my previous post was a bit abrupt, perhaps rude. Sorry.

I have mixed feelings about this, but I really have a lot of admiration for people with teenage children who have the courage to make such a major move. If I had been convinced it was the right move for my whole family, naturally I would have done as other posters have. In such an instance, though, I would certainly not ask for the 'permission' of the children in the family.

tresco

[Sassy]

I'm so pleased to see some real balanced views coming up for our teenagers in this topic, I agree that arriving here as a primary student is great and allows for that ideal childhood with an added bonus. But to educate the children here at a complete loss to the british system, seens to be denying them their rights and further opportunity. Next year my 12 and 13 year old will return to the uk to take their gcse french as a pat on the back for their hard work. After they may return to secondary school in the uk for a year to improve their english, and maybe the older one can sit one or two other gcses. Its not just making available work and education, but giving our youngsters the choice...after all we exercised ours by bringing them here.

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

 After they may return to secondary school in the uk for a year to improve their english

That actually would be my biggest concern about the kids...............the abrupt stop to learning good English. I know they have that crap "apple pie" at school and I do feel they have perhaps fell behind on this aspect.

Tresco, I fully agree that one should not seek kids "Permission" but I feel perhaps a small "consultation" would do no harm.

 

[Mistral]

 I know they have that crap "apple pie" at school

Aah, Dave and Vanessa, Phil and Cathy (let's not forget Walter the token American ) Nostalgia, nostalgia. I'm dealing with boring English Live and boring Dennis and Julie and the gangsters. Believe me it used to be much worse (ticket to ride, imagine you're English...) At least Apple Pie encourages pupils to talk in English and gives them the tools to express themselves (as long as the teacher isn't frightened of letting them talk) but of course, it's not aimed at anglophones although they will probably be learning more English grammar in France than in the UK.

 

[Miki]

the fact that the teachers talk at you, and after all that they give you philosphy in the terminale to teach you free thinking

Not really, from what I've heard (and it's a bit out of date, Val, Miki... have things changed?) Philisophy is mostly learning what the "experts" have already written about various issues and then writing essays where you quote as many people as possible.

Sorry Mistral, it has taken me a while to nail the daughter down for just a couple of minutes !

Right, first she says to me, "dont you know" (like I would !!) and then  "yes of course you take philosphy, only in terminale and what, free thinking, perish the thought, you sit and listen about the philosophers from the past and then talk about how they are so correct and why, not why they might be wrong" !!

Then she said " right my favourite is on the TV, is that it ?"

Don't you love 'em, we spend all our time working to survive, they go to school and somehow in between all our other jobs we should have kept up with the kids with French language and things "francaise" !!

 

 

[Mistral]

Thanks Miki, so it looks as though things haven't changed (well, there's a surprise ) I'm managing to keep up with the schooling so far and the language, but I don't understand a thing about his gameboy

[Mistral]

Thanks Miki, so it looks as though things haven't changed (well, there's a surprise ) I'm managing to keep up with the schooling so far and the language, but I don't understand a thing about his gameboy