French school, mixed experiences

[clareS]

I’d be interested to share any experiences of French school - we have children 7 and 9, at state primary school in a small village (in France). We moved here in August, so they were launched pretty quickly into school. The first couple of weeks were a nightmare, which we were sort of prepared for, but it was still a bit of a shock. I felt that the teachers thought we were completely ridiculous to have dumped our non-French speaking children on them (though I had taught them a lot of French at home it was all as nothing once they were sitting in a French classroom faced with the real, non-stop, full-speed stuff). We were told that they would have to go to a special school for immigrants in Dijon (30 minutes away), then later that day that in fact they could say, the said school was already full (phew!). My son’s teacher told me he was just being ‘malin’ (clever or sly), he could really understand what she was saying but just pretended not to!!!

 

As you can imagine, it was quite difficult and upsetting, but then, I thought, maybe we had been completely ridiculous to come and dump our children here!

 

The children are getting on very well now, and the school has actually been very helpful – they have arranged lessons for them after school 3 days a week (which means they finish at 6 and then have at least an hour’s homework to do, but I am very grateful!). I think the teachers have come to terms with them, and both teachers are very nice in fact, one has been particularly kind and helpful, the other is ok but can be a bit odd. I think at first they were reeling under the shock!

 

The children are pretty happy generally, though my 9 year old has got to the stage where she is missing being able to have a proper conversation, having got over the euphoria of being the most popular and famous girl in the school. Their French is improving day by day, they have coped well with learning 42 line poems by heart, strange things like autodictees and the vast amount of homework and long hours at school,  but speaking is still a struggle, and I think they would still rather be back in England … Only time will tell whether we’ll be staying or not. I’d be interested to hear any other experiences, good or bad.

[Tresco]

Hi. In my (very limited) experience, knowing other peoples children, it seems quite normal for children to listen, and not speak, for quite some time after they start school. Judging only on what you describe; it sounds to me as though they are doing fine.

tresco

 

[letrangere]

It doesn't worry you that the children "would still rather be back in England"?  How long do you plan to stay in France?  M

[Mistral]

It doesn't worry you that the children "would still rather be back in England"? 

I moved out here as a fluent french speaking adult and after 6 month I, too would rather have been back in England. That's about when the honeymoon period starts wearing of an reality starts to make its presence felt. As Clare said, it's the moment when you are no longer the novelty and everybody starts expecting you to get on with it.

French teachers are not trained to deal with non-French speaking children. Schools are suppsed to provide FLE but if they do it means that something like art or English can't be taught.

It looks as if this school finally is doing its best now that the teachers have better understood the needs of the children.

Good luck to them

[letrangere]

That's about when the honeymoon period starts wearing of an reality starts to make its presence felt

Sorry, beg to differ.  In all the places I've lived abroad, life has got richer, more enjoyable as time has gone on as I've become better integrated, made more friends, felt more settled, etc., etc. and this was more true in France than anywhere else.   I don't have children myself but I know what an enormous worry it is when friends see problems developing with their children, and it appears to be quite common in British children who are not at English language schools, irrespective of their age.  Invariably the parents can't return to the UK for professional reasons yet they don't want the children to board.  And things don't always get easier when you do move on or back into the English system again.  It's a nightmare situation and I really feel for people who have to endure this.   M

 

[Teamedup]

Maybe this should be a different thread, but I never felt homesick either. In fact I would say that feeling of being on holiday lasted an awfully long time. Years and years for me, probably helped by the fact that I was lucky enough to not have to go and earn a crust since I've been here.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

 

"That's about when the honeymoon period starts wearing of an reality starts to make its presence felt

Sorry, beg to differ.  In all the places I've lived abroad, life has got richer, more enjoyable as time has gone on"

Have you not been moving between non-permanent homes? I think the honeymoon period only applies if you think you are in a permanent home rather than a temporary one - and I do mean permanent as "until death do us part".

[letrangere]

Apologies for poster, don't wish to hijack very interesting thread, but not always, Pucette.  France was supposed to be forever.  Next time.  M

[Mishtoon]

Hi ClareS,

I've been in France only a short time - two months - but my children, 3 and 5, attend the Ecole Maternelle.  They have been readily accepted and the teachers very open and friendly and genuinely kind and warm towards the children.  However, there are two other english children in the school and, I am told, have been several Dutch children, in the past.  So it sounds like if the school has already had experience of 'foreign' children coming in, they are more open to the challenges of helping the non-french speaking child to integrate.  It sounds like there are no english-speaking children in your school, is that correct?  That's bound to make it difficult.

When I have continually voiced my concerns about the children feeling settled quickly, I have had so many people say to me, 'Oh don't worry, you see, they'll be speaking it in 3 months, 6 months, 12 months.'  That still doesn't stop you worrying about whether this is the right decision for your children.  Your children are going to say that they prefer to be in England, after all, they are surrounded by non-english speaking people.  But keep at it, it will get better and you'll look back, hopefully!, and realise that your decision to move here was the best one for them for all sorts of reasons, not least because they can speak more than one language and will have experienced another culture which should hopefully make them more 'worldly'.

Good luck,

Mel

[Brumble]

I am moving to Brittany in 2 weeks time. I have 3 children age 10,7 and 3 and a half.  Glad to hear your youngsters are coping well i hope mine do too.  I imagine they will eventually as children are fairly adaptable little people.  I do hear that in maternelle the children have to sleep in the afternoon?  My youngest is not going to like that she hasn't slept during the day for 2 years!! Anyway upwards and onwards, at least there are already english children in the school mine will attend.  Out of curiosity where abouts are you in France ClareS and Mel?  Be interesting to know if you are anywhere near where we are.

Cary

 

[Battypuss]

Both of my children, now 10 and 11 went to Maternelle. Well, actually they went to three differenct ones, but that's another story. It is more of a suggestion that the kids sleep after lunch, if they patently aren't going to, they can normally do something quiet instead, like drawing.

[opas]

When our two girls have a moan at something that has gone wrong in their day(usually the piles of homework.....) we say to them that if ever they are that unhappy we will upsticks and go back to the UK, they look horrified and get on with life!

As far as the homework issue, I do agree there is a lot.As for revising those full page poems/texts, well I suppose there must be a method in the madness..now those are the bain of our lives, but,they get on with it and try their best. Last evening our 7 year old(CE1) had, 3 pages of maths problems, dictee(about 6 lines) Lecture (a full A4 sheet) and 15 spellings to be learned for friday, all this took up about 1 hour and a 1/4 , like TU I am lucky that I don`t have to go to work so have the time and energy at the end of the day to do this.....and thats in between helping our 11 year old!

Do not read me wrong , I am not complaining, they have done more work here than I ever saw being produced from their respective schools in the uk, and I am learning more to boot! Mrs O

[Battypuss]

Funny thing is, schools before College are not meant to give homework!!! Not that we have ever noticed, have piles every night and arguments every other night...

[Mistral]

They're allowed to give homework, just not written homework. So the consigne is "check you know how to write.... "or " prepare to be able to write...." Crafty

[Donnabroadhurst]

I have two children 8 and 4, both started thier french state schools in september, the teachers at both schools couldn't be more helpful, my 8 year old has a one on one french lesson every morning and joins in with the rest of the class in the afternoon his teacher insisted he would be speaking french by christmas, he wont be fluent but he has made great progress, my yougest i have been told "thinks in french" and understands most of what is said to him, half his conversation is in French and the other half in English.

 

Both of them enjoy school, and it is true that the little ones have a little nap in the afternoons: i found this out when my 4 year old refused to go to sleep and was up running around at 10:30pm " i'm not tired mummy i had asleep at school!" thankfully this has only happened once. They have half an hour quiet time where they lay down on cushions some sleep some don't.

[Joannaall the best, Joanna]

As you can see by the smileys, we are as yet not quite sure what we think.....with 2 children at college....aged 12 and 13, who have been en france since novembre, the jury is still very much out. On the one hand, the behaviour and attitude of the children is 100% better than the Uk, BUT...and it is a big BUT......the comments  about French teachers not being able to deal with kids who are in any way DIFFERENT is only appearing too true....mine try really hard in French, but after such a short time aRE still way off being able to keep up...and tha attitude seems to be that they should be able to.....most (tho not all) teachers seem to have the attitude that when you can speak French well help you, but not til then.....we didnt expect babying, it was our choice to come, but we hop[ed for a sympathetic attitude...12 and 13 is still very young, anfd their life is diificult enough....has anyone any advice? there are no other English speaking kids at the school....must be a rareity these days!!Please do email replies.....Jo

 

 

[Ormx]

Joanna, all I can offer is to say that they will get there in the end. Mine are 4 and 2 so it's completely different. One thing which has helped the 4 year old is that she was invited to a birthday party and it gave her more confidence (not enough to speak yet but she does enjoy school) and is going to another soon. If you could find out which kids are good friend-material for your two, you could try inviting two or three of them around for gouter/video games/whatever 12 year olds do. If they feel they have other kids on their side, they may gain confidence. Courage!!

[Teamedup]

Joanna, the nitty gritty is that your children's marks are based on their written french work. The poorer that is the more likelyhood that they will resit a year and another year and sometimes another year. No account is taken that they are foreign, the work should be up to scratch for the level. It means that they can be 20 and just doing their BAC if they get that far, it is by no means uncommon at all.

Learning the language as in speaking and writing it are two quite different things. And anyone saying that their child's french is coming along nicely or some such thing, I rightly or wrongly assume means that they are starting to speak it well. The writing bit is quite different and some kids will be very good and others will struggle as it is not easy. And the strugglers will resit, as will any child who struggles.

And that help that teachers promise. A very easy promise to make by some. Some consider repeating what they have just said as helping, only as the child hasn't understood in the first place, repeating does not work. And there are those who will deride the pupil who asks and perhaps then do help in their own way, only the child doesn't ask another time. There is the odd helpful prof who uses their intelligence to give assistance, but many are content to make false promises or make little effort. In my opinion too many who are like this. So I hope you fall on those rare gems that are the good ones.

[Izz.]

dear Teamedup,

What you have said is very true and all i can say is: don't come to France with secondary school aged children if the only option is to enroll them at a college. my son Ben spent two years at a college in Pouzauges not learning much because of the language barrier. Teachers and headteachers make promises they don't keep and the whole thing is chaotic.Ben had been withdrawn from English lessons as found "disruptive" by his teacher who couldn't really speak English!Anyway we were promised that Ben would  use this time to study on his own on some naff program but spent most of his time looking for a teacher in order to access the program, and consequently did not use the time for studying. He was so disheartened that he decided to go back to the U.K were he is now preparing for "A Levels exams and living with his father.All these problems could have been avoided if the College had taken his education seriously but they did not care, and that is the difference between GB education and Fr.education.All this left me very depressed and we have felt that we had been let down.I know it is not the case everywhere but  many College don't take care of foreign students, even the language teachers don't want to understand the problem. this is why i will be starting a sec. school following the GB National curriculum to allow the necessary time to learn French and succeed in their studies.Izz

[Battypuss]

I think it also depends on the chold; in my experience, a gregarious child will integrate faster than a shy one. My eldest two dinf't/don't have problems, apart frpm laziness (!= but the smallest is a pain in the neck, being as stubborn as a mule! She's the same at home, incidentally.

Her teacher told me she was worried about the standard of her French being insufficient...well, she corrects both sisters and myself and is normally utterly correct to do so. At school she daydreams and can't be bothered; not she CAN't do the work, just can't be bothered. Oddly her 'bad' marks are the same as 2/3rds of the class, and they are all French. The kids all speak French to each other.

[cary]

We have  3 children age 10, 7 and 3 and a half.  Been here for 7 weeks now and they are all doing fine in school.  All in ecole publique, all made lots of french friends, although not that many to make as the school is so small.  My eldest gets on the bus and goes to a different village, he has 14 children in his whole school.  My youngest doesn't stay all day yet and finishes at 12 as the teachers feel it will be too much for her at the moment.  The teachers speak very good english which surprised me as we are in a tiny village also.  Would the children rather go back to england,  big NO from the 2 eldest but my youngest (daughter) reckons when she is big she's going to live with her nanny in the UK.  So i've booked her on the first flight back to her nan when she's 14!!!!!!  Be interested to know where abouts you all live as we don't have that many english families around us.

Cary