Property Prices 2004

[Quillan]

Been gathering some interesting facts and figures from different sources which may be of interest to some.

In 2003 11% of the property sold in France was to UK citizens, this dropped to 6% in 2004. The percentage of Internation buyers has increased especially in new property because of incentives given to 'buy to let' schemes. 40% of properties bought by International buyers were UK citizens in 2004.

The effect or house price rises in the UK has spread over in to some areas in France. Acording to the French INSEE prices, excluding new builds, have risen 70% in the period 1998 to 2004, some areas have risen more than other.

The same French organization along with FNIAM have stated that the overall increase in house prices during 2004 has been on average 11.3% with the exception of.:

Languesdoc Rousillon - 28.4%, Bourgogne - 16.7%, Aquitaine - 15.4%, ille De France - 14.5%, Midi Pyrenées - 13.0%, Provence Alpes Cote d'Azur - 11.4%, Limousin - 9.3%, Auvergne - 7.5%, Poitou Charente - 7.3%, Haute Normandie - 7.1%, Franche Comté - 3.1%. (Source Barclay Finance, INSEE and FNIAM)

The average price increase predicted for 2005 is 5 -6%. (FNIAM)

Although inflation in non house prices is low as an average there are some areas where inflation is higher than others, Haute Normandie for instance has an inflation rate of 9.3% above the national average where as Provence has a +13.8% (source INSEE).

The cheapest place to buy in France in 2004 was Limousin at 992€ per sq meter and the most expensive was Provence at 2,616€.

Where to buy next if you want to make money. Well people like Abbey and Barclays Internation and even FNIAM strongle belive that it airports that count and the amount of flights going there so if they are right look at the new routes being opened in 2005 and that should be were the greates increases should arise.

Are the English pushing up prices, in general no. The main reason for the overal increase is the low cost of morgages available to French buyers.

The Gite business came in for a bit of a knocking with increase costs and tax's and over supply. There are lot's of horror stories in 2004 of people going out of business. Both Barclays and Abbey International will be giving more thought to lending money for Gites in 2005 and they expect to lend much less of what they did in 2004 for Gites.

The French are buying new houses more and more as reasonably priced older houses are just not available. The French romance with second homes has also take a dive. The French typically used to buy close to their place of work (making good use of their 2hr lunch) but there is a bigger trend now to buy away from the work area and to commute up to an hour each way. This has put pressure on roads which are deteriating quicker than normal although the companies who own and/or run Autoroutes are laughing as they have seen good profits last year.

A lot of international buyers (other than those who invest) have bought in France around it's borders like the Swiss, Germans and Italians who then cross border commute.

Sources - FNIAM, INSEE (National Institute for  Statistics and Economic Studies - France), Barclays International, Abbey International, The Connexion (news paper) and one or two other agencies.

[Logan]

Thanks be to Quillian for a very constructive and useful post.

I can now quote from authority the next time my French friends blame the English for house price inflation.

[zeb]

Thanks for that Chris.

I'm interested in the statement that 11% of all property sold in France in 2003 was to UK buyers. This seems incredible. Can you state the source (website?) of this please - I'd be interested in reading the report.

regards......helen

[Quillan]

[quote]Thanks for that Chris. I'm interested in the statement that 11% of all property sold in France in 2003 was to UK buyers. This seems incredible. Can you state the source (website?) of this please - I'...[/quote]

The figure of 11% was from the INSEE (National Institute for  Statistics and Economic Studies - France), although FBIAM state 11.3%. This was from an artical written in a financial magazine I read in the doctors dated Dec 2004 and I copies the figures from that.

Logan - I often quote to people who say the English push the prices up that it's not the English who set the prices it's the French. I'ts just that in the past the English (and other EU nationalities) have more disposable incomes than the French. Wages in France are low compaired to the rest of the EU and there is higher than average unemployment, perhaps thats another reason why the French do not own so many second homes as they once did.

[Val_2]

I blame estate agents for high prices here. A prime piece of building land near us was up for sale for 120,000FF (2240m²) four years ago as I went and got the printed details from the notaire. Today I saw the piece still for sale with a large well known agent in a nearby town at 25200,00FF and with our local notaire at 180,000FF. Talk about being bl***y greedy. By the way I hate euros,can't relate to their value so always talk in Francs like my fellow villagers do.

[Teamedup]

Val did they really talk in francs before the euro.  For me it is  nightmare at the moment. All my french friends are still talking in anciens francs. Which they still have to convert into modern francs for me and then I convert that into euros for them. Add to that I have an english friend who has started converting everything to £'s since the euro arrived.

Land is obviously still cheap in Brittany, on average it is £100 a m² here these days.

[Logan]

I have a beautiful plot of land for sale with full CU. 2500 sq. meters nice views. Located in rural 24. Price is 15000 euros.

I hope this will not be classed as advertising dear monitors. I am making the point that if you buy privately or through a notary you will save money. Estate Agents are really an unnecessary cost and do almost nothing.

[Val_2]

Logan you have just illustrated my point with land near enough the same size and price and with CU etc.We are coastal which also adds a bit more onto the cost.

TU - Francs, yes we still speak in them on council even when we have our three hour finance meeting every March with the local Perceptor and the old folk still talk in ancient francs as well which I then translate to modern ones. Wish the euro would go away I really hate it.

[Teamedup]

I have never got away with ancien francs. Even I was a mere child when they were finished. It isn't just the old folks around here either that talk in them, young folks do to.

What do the minutes of the council meetings say, euros or francs.

And really the land sounds cheap to me, in spite of the increases. We paid around £13500 for around 950m² in 1982 and that was a good deal then. Most land here is  £100 a m² and there are plots for far more than that. 

[Jongleurs]

Oh dear Logan you've obviously not been as fortunate with estate agents as we have.  I agree their costs are exhorbitant - especially compared to what one would pay in the UK - but the Agents we have used here have been very very helpful and useful and done far more than any UK agent ever would.

It will be interesting to see how the housing market goes this year - especially with the talk in a reduction of UK lending interest rate ... Can't be doing with all this talk in Francs either - got over the Franc:£ound conversion about a year after moving here and it took a few months to get into the Franc/Euro conversion but now don't think in any other denomination but Euros. Time for all to move on methinks?

[cathyb]

we also have had a very good experience with our estate agent who continues to help arrange things - deliveries, phone line, TV aerials, getting people in to give us quotes - or any other sort of advice we email him about and that is nearly 6 months after the sale.

[Teamedup]

Our friends used one of the big and  they consider very good french estate agents in 2004. They are also expensive. All they 'did' for them was show them the house twice and contact the notaire with the details.

AND that is all they did. At my suggestion they did ask for a little help with some of the utitily things, but they were very very politely told, non, that was not their function.

Hand holding is just a bonus, isn't it.

[Annee]

After 18 months 'research' daily on the internet, and over a dozen visits, we have finally found our location......An area of real France in the Var.

I have watched the same properties just sit there, with no sale, asking for £200,000 for something not much larger than my garden shed, with half an acre of trees or restanques.Then move on to another agent, and increase the price!

The other day I went onto an Agents site, and noticed that the French version was one price and the English version was 14,000.euros more, for the same property! I mailed the company, asking for an explanation, but have been ignored. However, I know 3 other companies that have it on their books, all different prices I may add....one that works out of the UK, so I am on the case.

I asked the English agent about the 'trend' at the moment. She was really honest, and said the market is flooded, full of hopefulls at inflated prices, sitting on their goldmine. The French are quite happy to wait.

We are over in early March to view, and possibly buy, and I know the demand and hype, have pushed prices beyond belief. The French are not big on maintenance, and to get properties up to scratch takes a heafty investment.

Which brings me to my burning question to many out there that have purchased in France........HOW MANY OF YOU MADE AN OFFER?

I have read so often that the French are 'insulted' by offers, but with the euro and financial climate as it is, the South is nearly as expensive as Surrey.

I await your views.............Annee.

[Quillan]

I think the French pretend to be insulted. I made a stupid offer on the house we now live in pointing out what would have to be done, not to make it in to a business but just a family home, new kitchen, bathroom, decorating throughout etc and of course got an absoloute no. I then went back with an offer, after a couple of days (let them sweat), of what I really wanted to pay which saved my 20,000€ but that was back in 2002. Since then the value of the house has risen by just over double in just over 2 years, partly due to the redecoration (still haven't changed the kitchen on the oven and hob) and new bathrooms for the B&B but mainly from house prices here going through the roof. Mind you it only counts if you want to sell but as we are not concidering moving is of no interest to us what the house is worth.

[Jongleurs]

Yes I would agree.  We have bought several properties here and have made offers on all of them - usually bidding off by about 10%.  We may have been fortunate but we have never had to pay the full asking price and that's been over the past 5 years.  Good luck.

[SaligoBay]

Here are some land prices to conjure with.

There is now a fine new lotissement between us and the village.   18 months ago the land was 120 euros per sq metre.   The latest plots have just sold for 190 euros per sq metre.   Skwyt scary.

[Miki]

As you rightly say SB, quite scary (well that's what I think you wrote )

But does anyone else feel the way I do ? Although the French house pricing structure stands a little low in certain areas against a lot of European prices, it's wages match approximately, or did once, the house prices, so how the hell can the French afford the soaring house prices ?

Many folks we know are self employed and doing so-so, others we know are on good old smic rates, well tell me, what can one afford on that ? Certainly not the rising prices we are hearing more and more about every day.

So sticking my neck out a little, I really cannot see the prices marching on as they are at the present and can see them dropping sometime soon as the French surely will have to say "Non" to prices they simply cannot afford.

One of our French friends has an immo quite near to us and he really does not believe Les Anglais influence have put on hardly anything on the overall prices in France. As he said "sure we sell to many English but we sell far far more to the French" and he is adamant that prices are based on French buying, not Brits although as he said further, many parts of France will see an influx of Brits, so of course certain areas will see some French folk put on a bit for the sale hoping to cop an unwary Brit in to buying at an inflated price, well a price that a French person would simply walk away from.

Time will tell I guess.

 

 

[Alexis]

The French around here can't afford the high prices.  That is why they are moaning.  Noboby could call this corner expensive compared to some areas but the wages are smic or slightly higher so what do the French do?  Well, with the uncertainty of the work situation with contracts not being re-newed, they rent or they buy, if they can, properties to renovate.

They also take out loans for 25 years which was unheard of a few years ago.  The usual loan span then was seven or ten years.

Bricolage is the most popular hobby now after fishing and something else!  It is very popular with ladies.

Needs must!

[Crevette]

Great research!

Todays metro has stats and facts about the housing market in Paris region. I noted a few stats ;

14.8 % rise in Hautes-de-Seine

17.5 % rise in Seine-Saint-Denis and Val-de-Marne

"Departements de la grande couronene" ("other regions near Paris") 5.7% a 6.7%

There is a guide for square metre price per arrondisement as well.

I wonder what impact the (expected) housing market decline in the UK will have (probably very little if the UK?

I am looking to buy (first time buyer) in Ile de France region within the next 1-5 years so I am hoping prices will drop in France at some time.

The metro also has quotes from a "notaire" (no vested interests at all I'm sure!) who says "we won't have a reduction but we will have a stabilisation"

Regards,

-Rob-

 

[Val_2]

Well we voted recently to prevent holiday homes from being built using cheap "lotissement" land here. In future only permanent residents will be allowed to buy plots on them to keep the birth rate up,the schools open and general economic growth that locals can afford to pay for against the wages of this region.

[timc17]

We had mixed experiences when house-hunting two years ago.The first agent (who i had booked an appointment with) showed us one house in the middle of nowhere and when we said we did'nt like it got the huff jumped in his car and drove off !!

However the next two were very helpful (one even gave up her lunchtime to show us a house) even though we didn't end buying through them.

Finally, after seeing eight houses in a day and a half we found what we were looking for and still can't believe we paid less than half what we're now about to pay for a small terraced house in Norfolk.

With regard to house prices there is still the assumption in France that the brits have loads of money and will buy any old property regardless of condition.Some french friends of ours have a huge house with tons of land for sale.The house needs total renovation and in parts dates back to the 14th century - the price 1,200,000 euros!!

We have been looking for a small house near La Rochelle for a friend and have noticed recently that houses are now taking longer to sell (a bit like the state of the UK market) and perhaps this will lead to more sensible pricing.

 

timc17