French and American Contrasts

[Monergist]

Hi,

I'm doing a project on the French school system and I hoped someone from France could relate some of the differences between our school systems.

I'm looking particularly for interesting facts. For instance, in America, basketball, football, and baseball are a big deal from first grade to high school, and high school and college competition is also huge. Is it the same in France? Perhaps with different sports?

We generally eat artificial food at lunch (soggy fries, pizza, funny tasting burgers, etc). Is it the same in French College (secondary school)?

I already read a topic concerning prom (an end of the year formal dance for seniors) and it basically said there was no such thing in most French schools. Does that still hold true?

What about homecoming, and homecoming king and queen?

Do high schoolers drive to school?

Is there high school superlatives (cutest couple, most atractive, etc.) for seniors and yearbooks?

Is private schooling and homeschooling prevelant?

Any other interesting facts will be much appreciated, thanks.

[Val_2]

From what I remember with my two when they were at collège and Lycée (16 years upwards)

Sport at collège at least twice per week plus wednesday afternoons at their own choice and then handball or basketball visiting other schools etc - all free.Their collège had the big sports hall nearby so it was easy for the pupils to partake but running, football, basketball and sailing (at primary school) were the main sports along with swimming.

Food at collège was good and then went bad due to budgets being slashed and outside catering - same rubbish food as yours.

Lycée was worse, most went and looked and then bought a sandwich in town or the local supermarket and it was dished up again next day too!

Prom - nothing of the sort. Only events organised by parents like moules frites and other public meals to raise money. King and Queen homecoming, no idea what this is.

Driving only at Lycée when they are 18 and have passed their test which you cannot take here until 18. School transport is far cheaper than running a car to Lycée.

Yearbooks? - Lycée there were photos and collège too of the year class.

Don't know anyone who has taught kids at home, frowned upon in France normally.

School teachers in France are fonctionnaires that is 9-5 only, no extra and very militant too! USA system seems friendlier and not so regimental by your list.

[Frenchie]

Val , I am one of those " fonctionnaires", and in lyçée , classes start at 8.00 and finish at 5.45 ..

I do extras . Many teachers do .

In my lyçée, we have a  " end of the year " party, not exactly a prom night but lots of fun, according to the students .

There's also a " semaine de la danse" , dance shows at lunch time , ( tha dancers  being from the lyçée dance club ) .

There's a Christmas party. And a Christmas lunch .

And a costumed day . All teachers and sstudents come to school in their best costume [:)] , at lunch time there's a défilé , and a vote, for the funniest costume, the most original one, etc..

There's a sports day, a race organized, we bet on participants, and the money that is collected goes to Action contre la faim .

We are part of a Comenius project, we welcome students from Sicily, Germany, Norway, Wales, etc.. and we send our students there too. ( for 3 or 6 months to a whole school year .)

etc..

My lyçée is not exceptional .

[Val_2]

Yes, different regions and different Lycées/Collèges I suppose. I just quoted our experience of this region in 29. The Lycée both mine attended started at 08.00 and finished 17.30 with one hour for lunch. Nothing special for xmas and no outside stuff and the teachers I am afraid,would not do anything extra outside those hours. Collège previous to that was from 08.30 - 17.00.

[allanb]

A small detail, but in France it is a lycée, not a lyçée.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="allanb"]A small detail, but in France it is a lycée, not a lyçée.
[/quote]

Is that because it, the "c", comes immediately before a weak vowel?

Would that, the use of the cedilla, only be necessary if it came immediately before a strong vowel and the "s" sound was required?

[pachapapa]

Please forgive the manifest error in my post above; I was having a senior moment and inadvertently reproducing some spanish grammar learnt nearly 50 years ago.

Silly me! Of course the french spell barcelona...barçelone.[;-)]

[mint]

Yes, of course, Pacha.  No problem before "e" and before "i" but, if it's a "hard vowel" like "u" or "o", then you need the cedille if you want a soft "c"

EG, garçon

 

[pachapapa]

mille fois merci!    I do believe I've got it.[;-)]

[pachapapa]

Curiously the cedilla is used frequently by football supporters when they shorten the word barcelona.

Barça!

[audio]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Silly me! Of course the french spell barcelona...barçelone.[;-)]

[/quote]

No they don’t. Out of courtesy and correctly they use a capital B

[Frenchie]

Sorry about the cédille in my post. Silly summer moment !

 

[Monergist]

I posted a reply back on the 21st thanking Val for the response and saying I was on my way to do my presentation, but it's gone for some odd reason..

Anyway, WOW!! I can't believe school is almost 10 hours over there..LOL.  I wish I could've relayed that information to my classmates.  High school is generally 6 hours over here.  Mine went from 8-2:30.

Homecoming is a big event, with a parade through the city to welcome back alumni.  There's usually an accompanying football game, and 2 students are voted king and queen of the homecoming event, based on popularity.  There's also a homecoming dance that night to celebrate the football team's triumph over the away team, but our football team always lost their homecoming game..haha

Speaking of militant fonctionnaires, are there any military programs in college or lycee (sorry, haven't looked up how to do accents yet).  We were required to do JROTC (Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps) our freshman year of high school.  I hated it.  My school had an Air Force ROTC program, and they forced us to wear military uniforms on Tuesdays.  The program was geared toward men and women who knew they were going to the military immediately after high school, but the school board had decided it would be good disciplinary incentive for all students entering high school..

Driving to school over here is just a status symbol, and an ostentatious one at that.  I started driving to school when I was 16, even though the school was a 5 minute walk from my house.  Some of the bad kids who stole cars, were even driving to school at 14 and 15 (one of my friends drove a brand new (stolen) Benz to school at 15).

The only video I could find on youtube of a french high school was of le lycee Henri quatre.  It looked interesting. 

It was interesting also to see Val and Frenchie's contrasting regions.  I'm assuming, Frenchie, that in your region, the religious paraphernalia laws aren't as binding?  Seeing that your school has a Christmas party and a Christmas lunch.

Marching band is also a huge thing here.  Some universities even attract more spectators to football games to see the marching band rather than the football team.

We take a lot of field trips to various museums and theme parks.

We also had a senior trip at the end of senior year.  From the time a class enters into high school, the classes sponsor (usually a teacher but sometimes a administrator) puts on a bunch of events (cook outs, dances, car washes, etc) in order to save money for a trip for that class.  Our senior trip was a cruise to the Bahamas.

Junior high and high school was fun, but it could be frustrating sometimes.  It's a big fashion show, and the kids are so evil.  Too much emphasis on clothing; especially shoes.  I'm sure France doesn't deal with that.  My french professor kept emphasizing to us about how money, clothes, and cars doesn't impress people from France.   

 

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="audio"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Silly me! Of course the french spell barcelona...barçelone.[;-)]

[/quote]

No they don’t. Out of courtesy and correctly they use a capital B

[/quote]

Teeny jump from irony back to oxymora.[:)]

[audio]

[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="audio"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Silly me! Of course the french spell barcelona...barçelone.[;-)]

[/quote]

No they don’t. Out of courtesy and correctly they use a capital B

[/quote]

Teeny jump from irony back to oxymora.[:)]

[/quote]

 

Hmm! That must mean a multiplicative inverse x 0.[:D]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="audio"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="audio"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Silly me! Of course the french spell barcelona...barçelone.[;-)]

[/quote]

No they don’t. Out of courtesy and correctly they use a capital B

[/quote]

Teeny jump from irony back to oxymora.[:)]

[/quote]

 

Hmm! That must mean a multiplicative inverse x 0.[:D]

[/quote]

So not in fact a lexical disambiguation.[:P]

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Another difference is that in France you only go to school 4 days a week I think. They have Wednesday's off.

I don't think any country in the world could compare to sports at school in the US. I think you get more crowds at college games than most professional sports in Europe.

And another interesting difference is that in the US and most other countries, the grading system starts at grade 1 and finshes at grade 15 (or 14, can't remember). In France, it goes the opposite way round, your last year is grade 1.

[Val_2]

Not in Brittany they don't. Collège is until 11.30am and Lycée is all day on wednesdays. They used to go on saturday mornings here in Bretagne, but that was voted out when we moved here because families could not have weekends away or go to weddings etc.

The difference between education in France and the USA is enormous, so much outside extra-curricular activity compared to here. I'm afraid some of the words like alumii and freshmen are alien to us in Europe and we don't know quite what they are.

[Val_2]

I forgot to mention too, having both children obtain degrees here in french university that there is no diploma presentation where they wear gowns etc, you don't even get your certificate unless you go in person to the secretary of the fac with ID to proove its you. My daughter got her degree four years ago and only collected it last April when she was home, the same applies to Lycée etc, certificates have to be collected from the office and no ceremonies whatsoever which really is a shame when the kids have studied so hard and long.

[mint]

It IS a shame, that.  What, no photo of yourself with the gown and mortar board for your parents to display in pride of place on the mantlepiece?

How'd people know you had a degree then?....(no emoticon for SMIRK!)

[Val_2]

My neices and nephews all have photos of themselves in mortar boards and gowns and even my brother too, my kids just have another white certificate for the collection and they are mentioned on their CV's. The certificates are not even very nice either, like something printed off a computer programme and there is no difference in style between the Brevet,BAC and Licence.

[Sara]

.  Quote......." My french professor kept emphasizing to us about how money, clothes, and cars doesn't impress people from France."   

 The next time you see your french professor tell him unfortunately his experience of french living is out of date,,,, Since we have lived here the last 10 years it has changed. France has become another victim of capitilism and my experience the french are very materialistic . If they had more income they would be just the same as in the UK, Shop till they drop... no difference. The problem is in general the jobs are not paid as well and they have to pay more tax.. They build cheap houses (pavillions) but then spend thousands on expensive cars, where we live everyone it seems must be seen with a new car. Our local town is full of Audi 's or BMW's people do not eat out as much and the shops and market  in the local small town are suffering with trade, people now shop mainly in the super markets . Also the 'old 'wonderful family run bistro's are becoming very hard to find they are nearly all taken over by pizza or crepe restaurants (Probably because they are easy to make and more profit for them to buy a new car )

Years ago my experience of France was the complete opposite, I loved to see people drive around in old characterful cars the Citroen 2 CV (?) or the Renault 4, they looked like they had life sussed out ,life meant  family ,good quality food and eat out at restaurants often....After working in London for 16 years it was a breath of fresh air..... We could n't wait to live a new experience, we were Franchophiles.... we loved everything about France and travelled every corner of France...... We love the countryside and the architecture.

But it has changed... and for the worst... Is it since Sarcozy...?  (Similar to the years of Thatcher)...  I don't know, but the truth is here( in Normandy and must be else where)  one french friend said France is having a nervous breakdown. The majority of people here are obsessed by money and have a massive chip on their shoulder for not having more..... That's my take on it.....

[mint]

[quote user="Val_2"]My neices and nephews all have photos of themselves in mortar boards and gowns and even my brother too, my kids just have another white certificate for the collection and they are mentioned on their CV's. The certificates are not even very nice either, like something printed off a computer programme and there is no difference in style between the Brevet,BAC and Licence.[/quote]

Oh, Val, that does disappoint me!

I didn't know any of this stuff and certainly next to nothing about the educational system here in France.  Not had the need to know, I suppose.

And I thought that educational achievement was so important here as everyone has to have formal qualifications to do even quite lowly-paid jobs!

 

[Monergist]

[quote]And another interesting difference is that in the US and most other countries, the grading system starts at grade 1 and finshes at grade 15 (or 14, can't remember). In France, it goes the opposite way round, your last year is grade 1.[/quote]

Someone asked me about this after my presentation and we wondered if the french said things like, "I'm in first grade," (during their last year of lycée) which wouldn't be funny, of course, unless you were American, and ethnocentric..haha.

[quote]I'm afraid some of the words like alumii and freshmen are alien to us in Europe and we don't know quite what they are.[/quote]

Sorry about that.  High school here starts at grade 9, and ends at grade 12.  So a 9th grader is called a freshman; 10th grader - sophomore; 11th grader - junior; 12th grader - senior.  It's the same in the university, also.  Your first year at a university is your freshman year; second year - sophomore, etc.  Also, at the university your status (freshman, sophomore, etc) depends more on how many classes you've completed, rather than the amount of time you've been at the school.  So if you've been at the school for 3 years, but only pass 2 classes, you're still technically a freshman, not a junior.

And alumni are the people who've already graduated.  Wealthy alumni usually donate money to the school they graduate from, so that's the reason events like homecoming take place in their honor.

[quote]there is no diploma presentation where they wear gowns etc,[/quote]

No cap and gown or graduation!? Wow.. You would think that after all that testing, some type of award ceremony would be in order. There are elementary schools (primary school would be your equivalent) here that have a graduation ceremony for each grade.  My nieces 5th grade graduation was a few months ago.  Next will be her 6th, and so on. 

Graduation over here is like a rite of passage.  A symbol that you are moving up in the ranks of society.  But again, the most surprising thing about no graduation in France is the fact that the education process is a lot more intense than America's. 

What about a Valedictorian or a Salutatorian?  If you do not know what these are; the valedictorian is the person who was academically number 1 in their class, and the salutatorian was number 2.  They basically look at your grades and all your activities and achievements through high school to determine if you were the "smartest."  The valedictorian is usually a straight 'A' student (they use letter grades there, right?) who maintained a 4.0 grade point average, and they also have a better chance of getting into a prestigious university.  The valedictorian also wears a different color gown or sash from the other students, so that they stand out.  And they have to make a speech.  Our graduation was in a huge basketball stadium, so a speech in front of so many people can be intimidating. 

[quote]I don't know, but the truth is here( in Normandy and must be else where)

 one french friend said France is having a nervous breakdown. The

majority of people here are obsessed by money and have a massive chip on

their shoulder for not having more..... That's my take on it.....[/quote]

I'll be sure to update my professor.  We (students) were put under the impression that we need to be more intellectual to get a french person's attention, rather than have money and material possessions.  I wonder if since the bistros are becoming less prevalent, if the french are becoming more open to inviting people to their homes?  We were taught that the french are more discrete and rarely invite people over for dinner, etc, since most homes are small and the french like their privacy.  Of course, here in America we want to show off our houses and apartments, big or small, so we hold a lot of gatherings, and don't mind if people bring friends we don't know..  It seems that if the french are becoming more materialistic, and big on cars, then the next step will be becoming more open to guests, and holding parties, etc.

 

   

[Rob Roy]

[quote user="Sara"]

.  Quote......." My french professor kept emphasizing to us about how money, clothes, and cars doesn't impress people from France."     The next time you see your french professor tell him unfortunately his experience of french living is out of date,,,, Since we have lived here the last 10 years it has changed. France has become another victim of capitilism and my experience the french are very materialistic . If they had more income they would be just the same as in the UK, Shop till they drop... no difference. The problem is in general the jobs are not paid as well and they have to pay more tax.. They build cheap houses (pavillions) but then spend thousands on expensive cars, where we live everyone it seems must be seen with a new car. Our local town is full of Audi 's or BMW's people do not eat out as much and the shops and market  in the local small town are suffering with trade, people now shop mainly in the super markets . Also the 'old 'wonderful family run bistro's are becoming very hard to find they are nearly all taken over by pizza or crepe restaurants (Probably because they are easy to make and more profit for them to buy a new car )

Years ago my experience of France was the complete opposite, I loved to see people drive around in old characterful cars the Citroen 2 CV (?) or the Renault 4, they looked like they had life sussed out ,life meant  family ,good quality food and eat out at restaurants often....After working in London for 16 years it was a breath of fresh air..... We could n't wait to live a new experience, we were Franchophiles.... we loved everything about France and travelled every corner of France...... We love the countryside and the architecture.

But it has changed... and for the worst... Is it since Sarcozy...?  (Similar to the years of Thatcher)...  I don't know, but the truth is here( in Normandy and must be else where)  one french friend said France is having a nervous breakdown. The majority of people here are obsessed by money and have a massive chip on their shoulder for not having more..... That's my take on it.....

[/quote]

I can't say that your experience is the same as ours in this area. Markets are still thriving, you can visit one every day of the week in a different town if you really want to and there are plenty of small bar/restaurants (although not all are open in the evenings). There certainly aren't an excess of expensive cars around either - unless you include 4x4's, which do abound and there are even 2 Citroen 2CV's that go pass frequently![:)] Maybe it's because we live in "La France Profonde" that the more traditional aspects have survived.