Brits driving completely illigal cars

[Diana]

Why do the gendarmes in our part of France seem to turn a blind eye to an increasing number of local Brits who drive the most clapped out RHD cars. These cars have no tax, and by the state of them no MOT or insurance, either French or British.  Do the gendarmes really not know about the UK tax disk etc, etc.  I can't beleive that these cars are never pulled over so what do the owners say to get away with it.

Diana

[Alexis]

Have you thought that perhaps the gendarmes don't stop them because they can't speak English?  Think how stupid the flic would look!

Here it is white vans.  Mostly H reg for some reason

If the car is being driven in France it doesn't need a UK tax disc.  They only have to say that they live here and never go back to the UK.

[Diana]

Alexis

But surely they need one of those little (green?) sticker things on the windscrene. And does this not lead into the control technique etc.

Diana

[Teamedup]

So how come british folks are exempt from french law. Surely as residents then they are obliged in some way to follow the codes and law of France and french people are obliged to reregister their vehicules within a short time frame of moving house.

And why should the gendarmes be bothered if they can't speak english. All they need say is, 'Papiers'! and if the people they pulled over don't have them, which, we all should have on us anyway, then they should be given a  note to go to the gendarmerie and produce them. If they aren't legal, well, then I'm sure that a gendarmerie can sort all that out. Brits being ignorant of the language should not affect this in anyway. And wouldn't residents look 'stupid' not being able to parlez-vous?

[Diana]

Teamedup

I agree 100% with your comments.

Diana

[Leschenauds]

Most 'british' cars which have run out of road tax are still insured, either in the UK or here and, if the latter will have a little green sticker also a CT sticker but not all CT places will CT a british car. The french authorities are not tax collectors for the british government! British cars do not have the monopoly of looking the worse for wear, many french cars are well past a normal sell by date. Fortunately, the french do not seem to be so status conscious as the brits and don't get an inferiority complex about driving older vehicles.

[Baz]

"Why do the gendarmes in our part of France seem to turn a blind eye to an increasing number of local Brits who drive the most clapped out RHD cars"

Diane,

An interesting question, but what makes you think that the Gendarmes never stop them?

Baz

[Diana]

That was part of my original question, 'what do the Brits say to get away with it'.

It never crossed my mind to assume the french should be tax collectors for the British govt, and ensure these vehicles conform to UK law, more the gendarmes might be inclined to to enforce French law to everyone residing in France.

I'm not to sure how keeping a car legal in France works but would imagine if your UK tax has run out and you have been living in France for a year or so you are expected to have up to date French papers, whatever they may be.

Diana

[Athene]

[quote]That was part of my original question, 'what do the Brits say to get away with it'. It never crossed my mind to assume the french should be tax collectors for the British govt, and ensure these vehi...[/quote]

Now after all the posts here, I do not like asking this question but I am going to steel myself and ask away.

We have an old but totally reliable Nissan that is at the moment taxed, MOTed and comprehensively insured in the UK, (I use her for work!). We wondered whether we could bring her down to SW France and leave her in the barn for when our family descend on us and want a runabout. We are domiciled in the UK at the moment but we wondered whether, as the car would be in France all the time, we could insure her in France or does one have to be a full-time resident to do this?

The other question is spares! We have not seen many Nissans in France, has anybody else? I would welcome your comments on this please.

[Russethouse]

>>.Most 'british' cars which have run out of road tax are still insured, either in the UK or here <<<

I thought not having valid road tax invalidated your insurance ?

[Richard-R]

[quote]Now after all the posts here, I do not like asking this question but I am going to steel myself and ask away. We have an old but totally reliable Nissan that is at the moment taxed, MOTed and compr...[/quote]

Lots of Nissan Patrol's and Micra's around and no you do not need to be a French resident to insure a car here.

\

[Redcap]

[quote]>>.Most 'british' cars which have run out of road tax are still insured, either in the UK or here <<

Hi From Redcap!

Gay, you would be surprised at how much one can 'get away with' with insurance. Did you know that provided you had a full driving licence when you took out your insurance, you could still be covered if you drove without a full licence subsequently?

Also, road tax has no bearing on insurance, you may find MOT has, IF the condition of the car contributed to the cause of the accident.  A UK car in France should have an MOT,either French or UK, but if resident and UK MOT has expired then it surely must be Controle Technique.  Remember, that not all Gendarmes are traffic(orientated) cops, same as UK, some officers like to deal with traffic, others prefer to deal with real criminals!  However, it has to be said that the average criminal does not bother with keeping their car legal, so stopping illegally driven cars often leads to what we in the trade call 'good arrests! The test will be when one of these Brit cars becomes involved in a crash, then see what their insurance company does!

Regards,

Bob

[Mpprh]

"Why do the gendarmes in our part of France seem to turn a blind eye to an increasing number of local Brits who drive the most clapped out RHD cars. These cars have no tax, and by the state of them no MOT or insurance, either French or British. Do the gendarmes really not know about the UK tax disk etc, etc. I can't beleive that these cars are never pulled over so what do the owners say to get away with it."

Hi

Firstly I own a clapped out white van......... and I've never been stopped, despite it being registered in France and being road legal.

Secondly, British RFL is only of interest to the British tax man.

Thirdly, it is estimated that there are 2m French registered cars on the roads without CT, insurance or valid registration.

I have many local contacts driving RHD vehicles on British plates. One has been using his for 12+ years.

So how illegal is it ?

Well, if you have French insurance, and a French CT, you are left with failing to notify change of address (there is case law on this). As there is no TVA or import duty to pay, this is a pretty minor amount of fine to pay. It may well be cheaper than sourcing conformity papers for an older car.

And providing you have not had an accident, etc driving without a current CT is a minor offence (reminds me I must take the van in for its CT !). In the event of an accident, you may have to prove that the vehicle met the legal requirements despite not having a CT.

Here is an amusing story. I worked with a Belgian colleague who was resident in Sweden for tax purposes. He was responsible for Benelux, so spent most of his time at his Belgian house where his wife lived. He was entitled to 2 company cars (as was I). He had one registered in Sweden, one in Belgium. Where do you think he kept the cars ? Obviously, the Belgian registered car was in Sweden, and the Swedish registered car was in Belgium. No parking or speeding tickets, etc.

So, the answer to why gendarmes don't investigate RHD cars on UK plates is ............ why bother ?

Providing you sort out valid insurance cover, it is no big deal ?

Peter

[Val_2]

I don't care whether the french,british,germans or martians have got a CT on their vehicles or not,that only confirms whether the vehicle is roadworthy and look how many with CT's aren't six months after they are passed, but what I do feel strongly about is that they should ALL have valid and sufficient insurance. If someone hits me or mine through no fault of our own,I want to be sure the perpetrator is covered and all damage is paid for. Why should I pay out each year and other people not bother and get away with it.We've lost hundreds of euros over the years where people have hit us and we are liable for the TVA payment on works vehicles. The penalties if found out are severe and I just wish my neighbour would get caught, he hasn't had any insurance for nearly three years and a CT for four years and still drives about in a complete wreck that would fold up if he hit something.

[Alexis]

I have read the messages and I don't think that anyone has mentioned that we do not pay road tax in France.  They stopped it in 2000 I think.  Too dark to look at car!

I still don't understand the insurance here.  Fortunately only been in one accident when a tractor attacked me but as they found my paint on his forks, it was his fault.  Well, it was his fault anyway!  Because I swerved to avoid him and went into a tree writing off the van, if I hadn't left paint on his forks, it would have been my fault.  He had pushed me into the poor tree.

I believe someone said that the British brake to avoid an accident and the French put their foot down to get past. 

The same if someone cuts you up or brakes suddenly....if you go into them it is your fault even thought they were driving badly.

Don't even mention priorite à droite!

[letrangere]

I think there are a surprisingly large number of British people who sincerely believe that foreign laws either don't apply to them or else aren't worth bothering about.  And some of the most previously respectable and law abiding citizens openly turn a blind eye to what they now regard as trivial issues such as purchasing a TV licence or registering a car abroad, even paying tax.  This could be ignorance or arrogance but I doubt they worry too much about it.  And they probably worry even less as they know that it's far wider spread outside Britain and overlooking such matters is common place and not something only those on the margins of society or criminals engage in.  M

[Stocky]

Being a bear with little brain I am now completely confused.  Having followed many similar topics I am not sure the route to take.

We are hoping to move permanently to France in the 1st half of 2005 annd I am looking at buying a new Renault laguna.  In the UK I can get a 27% discount but cannot get a LHD, in France I can only get a 10% discount from the local dealer who would do our maintenance. 

Do I buy the cheaper British car and insure in the UK or do I pay more and have a French registration vehicle.  RFL doesn't come into he equation as my wife gets the free disability license.

I want to drive legaly in France and the UK, where we will return to visit family, however living on pensions and dependant upon exchange rates variations I have to considerate the financial options.

Advice and recommendations Please

[Bobdude]

Absolutely Gay. The car must be ROAD LEGAL in the UK - i.e. MOT'd and taxed, for the insurance to be valid. If any of these drivers are involved in a road traffic accident they are in for a shock! (If they survive the crash, that is)

[Russethouse]

Well Redcap was a policeman, so he may have a point, but I have always believed that after 14 days your insurance was invalidated without it and have acted accordingly. I wouldn't want to argue the point with any insurance company if I had a claim.

[jrhartley]

[quote]Absolutely Gay. The car must be ROAD LEGAL in the UK - i.e. MOT'd and taxed, for the insurance to be valid. If any of these drivers are involved in a road traffic accident they are in for a shock! (If...[/quote]

Well - that's assuming its insured in the UK.  If you've insured your car in France then you don't need to worry about paying for UK RFT.  Why would anyone choose to pay UK RFT if they are living in France and never taking their car to the UK?

[Will]

I think you find that when you insure your UK-registered vehicle in France, you will be told that it should be registered in France within a certain time. If this condition is not complied with, I can imagine that most insurance companies may be happy to continue taking your money but may be less interested in paying out if you make a claim. As long as you can show that you are going through what can be the lengthy process of obtaining certificates of conformity etc then you should satisfy your insurer, but if you just haven't got round to it that might be a different story.

I know some people will say that they have got away with it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's OK in all cases.

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that there is an EU ruling that says vehicles have to be registered and insured in the country in which they are normally kept - but then people, especially the French, can be very selective about which EU rules they follow.

[Diana]

If you've insured your car in France then you don't need to worry about paying for UK RFT.  Why would anyone choose to pay UK RFT if they are living in France and never taking their car to the UK?

But surely even if the car started of life as RHD and UK registered but now is registered, insured and 100% legal in France you can return with it to the UK for a visit. In just the same way as a french person can arrive in the UK for a visit. I think the point is it has to be legal 'somewhere'.

Diana

[Russethouse]

There seemed to be an assumtion earlier in the thread that cars that 'live' full time in France could have UK insurance but not have UK road fund.

I suspect that unless your insurers are 100% aware of your situation you would have a fight on your hands in the event of a claim. Of course if the insurance company said you were not covered you may then find you had fallen foul of French law, so you need to be VERY sure. ie. Do not rely on a telephone conversation, get it in writing.

Of course there may be tailor made policies for this situation but I am not aware of them.

Diane, I think you are correct. As long as you are legal in France you can 'visit' the UK.

[jrhartley]

Sure, but my point is that if, like me, you've got a UK registered car, are going through the motions of getting french immatriculation, and have insured with a french insurer (which allows me to drive for 30 days overseas each year) there would be no reason to continue paying the UK RFT.  It does get complicated when you're in this transition period trying to take the car into the UK - not helped by the ineptitude of the DVLA who I have contacted more times than I care to remember about obtaining an export certificate.  They sent me one - unfortunately it didn't have my name on it, nor my car.  Quality, eh - now some bloke in Reading is waiting for the export cerficate for his Triumph Stag (well, he's probably not, as I posted it to the correct address).

I think a lot of the reason so many people don't bother jumping through the hoops that they are supposed to jump through is that most of the civil servants and bureaucrats that you need to deal with on these matters are so thick and incompetent at their jobs that it actually saps your lifeblood trying to complete the process.  I'm not saying that makes it right that there are so many vehicles in a state of limbo, but I think its a significant contributing factor.

Moreover - why is it that its still impossible to find a Europe-wide insurance policy (i.e. one which allows you to drive for more than 30 or 60 days in a country other than which the car is registered in).  Freedom of movement of people & capital, and all that.  I'd have thought that this would have been one of the first things to be enacted.  I suspect its because the likes of AXA charge Brits a fortune for their car insurance, and if there were Europe-wide policies, people would shop around and eliminate some of this profit through market segmentation.

 

[Russethouse]

I think the DVLA have tightened up quite a bit - we recently had to have our car MOT'd but it couldn't be fitted in until after the tax ran out.

My husband emailed the DVLA and told them we had taken it off the road and got a very snotty reply to the effect of 'we remind you of the law' etc