Taken to court!!!

[Quillan]

[quote]I am sorry I would have to disgree that there is confusion. Does any one actually know how long "the first few months of grace" lasts?!!! I can't see that phrase being acceptable to either English or ...[/quote]

From what I read here it depends on your insurance company.

My French insurance company AGF and my friends AXA gave us both 3 months from the time we took/take out our French policy to get our car registration moved to French plates. Having had a friend read through the policy, in very fine print, it does say that after that time your policy, if you have not registered your car in France, drops to absolute basic cover (AXA) or in my case (AGF) becomes void. My translator said this is well hidden in the policy along with the fact you get no rebate.

Technically after you have lived in France for 3 months you are resident here not in the UK therefore aCcording to the DVLC you have to register your car in your new country as the registered keeper is no longer resident withing the UK (hope you can understand that).

Reality is you can keep it on UK plates as long as you can get away with it. I personally use my old UK address with post forwarding to France. In February my car is 4 years old and requires a MOT. I can't be arsed to drive from the south of France all the way back to the UK for a MOT so I am already prepairing to register my car in France. Having read some peoples experiences here on the forum and some of my friends here in France have done it and it's not that hard, plus I won't have to pay roadfund licence any more.

Thinking about my last sentance I wonder if the original poster miss heard what somebody told her. There is no car tax in France for French registered cars but that does not mean you can drive a UK registered car in France with no UK car tax, it's illegal as we all know.

A a seperate but connected issue AFG does not accept (well they don't down here) the no claims discount on my renewal notice document from my UK insurance company. This is because you can protect your bonus in the UK so you could have actually had an accident the month before your policy expired. They (AGF) want proof that I have had no accidents in the time period I am claiming, not proof of no claims, if that makes sense.

[Moulin Neuf]

I am stunned that so many people in France feel that they can run around in UK registered cars when they are indeed living in France.  You are fiscally resident here after a reasonably short period and so if resident why not deal with the car.

You cannot run a French car in UK for a year - why do we think we can do it in France?

It is the same with taxes, medical and TV licences.  I do not believe that the majority of people are living in ignorance.  There are so many publications stating the rules.  The adverts are on UK TV re licencing cars - come on everyone - get real. I personally am delighted that the rules are being enforced.  I would never 'shop' anyone but I am tired of my neighbours who have been here for five, eight, twelve ..... years and are still running cars without control techniques.  Also their french insurance is not valid if they have an accident.  They all have enough French when they reap the advantages of living here.

[juxtapose]

[quote]From what I read here it depends on your insurance company. My French insurance company AGF and my friends AXA gave us both 3 months from the time we took/take out our French policy to get our car re...[/quote]

quote "it's illegal as we all know"

Sorry, but I did NOT miss hear what I was told about the UK road tax and also did'nt know that I was driving illegally!!!!!!!

Just setting the record straight! 

[juxtapose]

[quote]quote "it's illegal as we all know" Sorry, but I did NOT miss hear what I was told about the UK road tax and also did'nt know that I was driving illegally!!!!!!! Just setting the record straight![/quote]

Oops!!

Speaking of records.......Hope I'm not going to get one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quillan]

"You cannot run a French car in UK for a year - why do we think we can do it in France?"

It must be only French cars then as there are plenty of cars from other nationalities driving around on non UK plates in the UK. I believe in the case of the UK you are allowed a year before you must put your car on UK plates.

With regards to people driving around in France for 8 to 12 years with UK plates. I totally agree, it's stupid. I'ts highly unlikely that many of them have valid MOT's either so they will be totally illegal. In defence of myself, I know I am technically legal as I had an accident in France 6 months after arriving here and there were no problems with either the French law or the UK insurance company. However I don't want to push my luck and that is why I shall be registering my car in Feb. In a way I am lucky because the system now is much simpler to register than when I arrived, my UK logbook has a export notification form attached and for my car I don't need a conformaty document any more. 

[opas]

If you don`t need the cert of conformity Quillan, you are practically home and dry as far as re-reg. Went to Hotel d`Impots to do the impert ?tax bit, Got our cert of conformity (at a cost...Ford, they do nowt, for nowt!) CT without having to change the lights and yesterday went to the prefecture with all the relevant paperwork at 9.45 and at 10.40 walked out of there with our carte gris...minus a wedge from the visa card! just need the plates now....went to our local garage yesterday and he didn`t have some of the letters/numbers. So go tomorrow to get them.  All this took about 4 weeks on and off but probably could have completed the process in 10 days.  Oh and off to groupama tomorrow to give new reg no. Mrs O

Good luck to the original poster.

[Will]

"I believe in the case of the UK you are allowed a year before you must put your car on UK plates"

Another common misapprehension, I'm afraid. DVLA is quite clear on this - "A vehicle which is permanently imported for use in Great Britain must be registered and licensed as soon as possible after it arrives in this country. The vehicle should not be used or kept on public roads until the licensing and registration formalities have been completed."

As in France, a vehicle imported into UK has to be type approved (as shown by a certificate of conformity) or has to undergo a single-vehicle aproval process, has to go through an MoT test if more than the regulation age, and needs a certificate to say that any applicable VAT has been paid before it can be registered.

I'm not saying foreigners don't drive around on foreign plates in GB, just like a lot of British do in France. But they may be doing so illegally, again like many Brits in France. In fact whenever I go back to our UK house it's plain that I'm seldom in the only non-GB registered car, for example there's always a German-registered one outside the flats in the same development. But maybe that, like our cars, goes back home frequently so is able to count as a 'temporary import from another country', about which DVLA says: "There are International agreements which provide for the temporary use of a vehicle in a foreign country for a limited time, usually 6 months in a 12 month period. A visitor to the UK may use a vehicle displaying foreign plates, provided that all taxes (including vehicle excise duty) are paid in their country of origin."

Note that these are not specific UK rules, they are based on international agreements so the legal position is the same for foreign-registered vehicles in France. We say this time and time again on the forum but many people are very reluctant to accept this.

I agree though that in this instance the original poster seems to have been badly treated by DVLA, so good luck from me too.

[juxtapose]

[quote]If you don`t need the cert of conformity Quillan, you are practically home and dry as far as re-reg. Went to Hotel d`Impots to do the impert ?tax bit, Got our cert of conformity (at a cost...Ford, the...[/quote]

 Wow!!!!

You, could have done this in 10 DAYS!!!!!!!

I sent off for my cert of conformity, also with Ford, (in France) 5 weeks ago, and still have'nt got it back!

Also, had to get new headlights, amazes me that some people pass with stickers, or just get passed!!! Must be the garage I suppose!

Well done, to you , anyway!

P.S

Following other peoples advice, I got back to Dvla, after they originally told me I had to deal with the court, as there had already been a hearing, and SORN admit they do have details of my taking the vehicle to France, and did,nt reply!

They have asked me to fax over all the details!

fingers and everything CROSSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks everyone for all the info, great Forum

[Anton Redman]

Also, had to get new headlights, amazes me that some people pass with stickers, or just get passed!!! Must be the garage I suppose!

For the record CT stations in France are seperate from garages. For the last 18 months in Haute Vienne they have been giving owners who have previously been had a CT with stickers a new CT but telling them to come back within two months with neuf or nouvelle headlamps which dip to the right.

[Ron Avery]

You must contact the Court's Clerk to the Justices as soon as possible; the address/phone will be on the summons.  Ask for the case to be adjourned whilst you seek UK legal advice.  They may request a fax confirming this.  They will not insist that you attend court for the adjournment hearing. 

If the case goes ahead, rather than attend court, you may be able to send them a statement of events in your defence.  See what they say.  From what you have posted here they may not proceed with the prosecution, but seek UK advice on this, as it appears that you can prove that your vehicle was not on UK roads for the period for which you are being prosecuted.  You do not have to have UK road tax if your vehicle is off the UK's roads and all you have failed to do is complete an official SORN statement to this affect, although you did notify the DVLA that your car would be off the UK roads for a year.

The DVLA should have advised you that this was not possible, as you would have to either continue to pay UK road tax or export the vehicle and register it in France.

Make it clear to the Court that you are resident in France (I hope you can show that) and that to attend court would entail significant hardship and costs with flights and accommodation etc

Good Luck

[Babnik]

When I did my CT, they said the headlamps had to be changed, but they suggested 'borrowing' a pair for the test then changing back. Where would you borrow a pair of headlamps anyway? (now there's a business idea!!) In their defence they did warn us if we did that and we then had an accident, and someone decided to check the headlamps we might be in a little trouble. Needless to say we have new headlamps!

Another suggestion was we have a small  'accident' and claim them on the insurance ('oops I put the car into first instead of reverse in the garage!'). They were very 'helpful'!!!

Steve

[Dreamers]

Much has been said about this posting, but it all depends on what you are actually being summonsed for,if the summons is worded 'using a vehicle on a road without a valid road fund licence' etc, then you have no case to answer as you are not using the vehicle on a road ( French roads do not come in the equation for UK law). So it really depends on the wording of the summons.

[Quillan]

This bit about changing lights over, using beam deflecters etc, my comments are general and not aimed at any one person.

The beam deflecters don't deflect they just blot out that part of the light that would dazzle people driving towards you when you are on dipped beam and in doing so reduces the amount oif road that illuminated. To be honest I changed my lights and it's much better than either not changing and not/and using deflectors. If you don't swap the lights you are loosing part of the beam where you need it the most, down the right hand side, where either the curb or the ditch is. I have to say that I find that having changed my lights over it is really a lot better driving at night. So if you are registering your car in France why do people persist in trying to find a way round something that is so obvious, in this case swapping over your headlights. Is it that you can't afford it? Don't say because you go back to the UK because your car if now French registered so you don't obviously go back that often.

[Ron Avery]

[quote]When I did my CT, they said the headlamps had to be changed, but they suggested 'borrowing' a pair for the test then changing back. Where would you borrow a pair of headlamps anyway? (now there's a bu...[/quote]

Surely the object of having "correct" headlights is that you have the best visibility on French roads and do not blind drivers coming in the opposite direction by having reverse dip, ie pointing towards the left.  As one who used beam deflectors for a while and paid the penalty one night in poor visibility, I would not recommend extended use of either tape or beam deflectors,  in fact as others have said, many CT stations will not pass a car with such items

[opas]

I am sorry but I am not prepared to pay 160 euro EACH for a headlamp plus fitting from Ford...our main one near Perpignan would not sell us just the bloc opaques(lenses) .We are on the search from the various scrapyards or will try in Figures(spain) on our next trip . If the car had failed on the lights we would not have  had any alternative at the time. Mrs O

[kwp5000]

Well it cost us about £20 for new lights for our defender, ordered and sent from a uk dealer where we bought the vehicle, fitted ourselves and vehicle successfully re-registered in about 10 days! Tee hee! Mind you it had taken us a few months to get around to doing it......

Now, here's a nice little conundrum to get you all buzzing.... We also brought over an old banger, insured for 18 months now with french insurers, has ct, were going to do it all properly so exported the vehicule but (!) then found that the cost would be disproportionate (the defender cost us about 400e) and the said old banger is worth about 50 quid. SO... how do we scrap it as it's registration has been floating about over the channel for the last year?????!!!!!!

[opas]

kwp5000,new lights or new glass or from the breakers yard....£20 quid for new lights ,surely not! but good luck to you,some you win some you lose....we won by not needing the lights to pass the CT but may lose in the next one down on the list of things to do!! Mrs O    Hey speaking of lights, as I type the men are here to put up our village christmas decorations, 1st of December tomorrow, that will do for me...better than mid oct in UK

[kwp5000]

Opas, we got new lights sent from our dealer in the UK, he actually send a whole load of gear over for the Land Rover, even so, postage was only 30 quid for a huge box. They about 12 pounds per unit I think,and I fitted them so it worked out well. Parts for Land Rovers are pretty cheap though. Lights going up at chez nous too!   

[Ron Avery]

[quote]I am sorry but I am not prepared to pay 160 euro EACH for a headlamp plus fitting from Ford...our main one near Perpignan would not sell us just the bloc opaques(lenses) .We are on the search from the...[/quote]

I do not know where you live in France and maybe you live in a lit up town and do not have the unlit roads, tight bends and frightening drops down hillsides that we have in the Aveyron, but if you use tape or deflectors you are putting your life and that of others at risk every time you use your car.

Before you go anywhere, have a run round the villages (in daylight) and look at the garages.  In rural France you will find a graveyard of old cars at evey one and you should be able to find one that has a pair of lights for a Ford, they are pretty common in France.

But, even if do you end up paying €350 , isn't your life worth more than that?  I did not know that deflectors restricted the area lit by the headlights, the blurb gave a very different view, but I nearly paid for this false economy one dark rainy night with my life and that of my wife, daughter and friend. we were lucky that we only hit a tree.

[Hereford]

Kwp500 - re scrapping a car.

You can take it to a scrap car dealer but they charge!  However:

My Dad brought over an old car, with it's export certificate but after a short time it started giving having problems so he decided to change the car and scrap the old one.  He took it to a small garage (i.e. village one) and said they could have it free for scrap. They were delighted, no money changed hands, Dad just gave them all the car paperwork and left car with them.

Mrs H

[Tom]

You'll be glad to know that there's a parallel universe discussing  voiture francaise en angleterre

http://biotoile.ujf-grenoble.fr/Forum/tm.asp?m=169&p=1

[I1]

And now to get political in a tread that has nothing to do with politics:

This government needs all the revenue it can get as, with an election approaching it needs to spend money to help itself get re-elected. Things like this are often to generate revenue rather than ensure that people are driving safe vehicles with MOTs and insurance. If it were motivated by safety you would e.g. get a warning giving you e.g. 2 weeks to get a licence and requiring you to attend a police station with your documents. The amount of the fine is at the “we want your money” level.

[Ron Avery]

Comment??? what has the above to do with a road tax prosecution???

[Dick Smith]

[quote]And now to get political in a tread that has nothing to do with politics:This government needs all the revenue it can get as, with an election approaching it needs to spend money to help itself get re...[/quote]

First of all, why do this? And secondly, if you imagine that a political party can grab the money raised by fines you are inhabiting an alternative universe.

I despair at this level of cynicism and lack of critical judgement, quite honestly. If you have evidence, put it up. If not, you probably know the alternative.

[I1]

My surprise was in relation to the amount of the fine. Had you taken the trouble to read what I had written you will have seen I said “government” and not “political party”. There is a big difference. I consider the level of fine somewhat high in relation to the offence, particularly where there are (as I pointed out) alternatives to ensure that safety, etc. is not being compromised.

There is a general opinion that the positioning of large number of the speed cameras in the UK have little to do with road safety but are instead to generate revenue from fines. (Even a government watchdog has commented on this fact). My comment (phrased cynically) was that this appeared along the same lines.

If you don’t like my comments then ignore then. I’m finished here.