Living in town or city

[dang65]

Hello.  First post here and not sure if this has been covered before, so sorry if it has.

We're just starting out on investigating options to move to France in maybe a year, maybe two.  We'll be taking our time and reading plenty and visiting various areas etc etc, but one question occurs to me straight away...

It seems that "nearly all" Brits moving to France head into the countryside, either completely rural or in little villages.  I understand that this is probably the dream for many people, either for retirement or for those who can work from home somehow, but I'll need to get regular employment and I imagine that really means living in a large town or city - as it would in the UK.

Do many posters here live in urban areas, and are there huge differences in prices, cost of living and size of accomodation between the towns and the countryside?  I've read that one reason why Brits are welcomed in France in many cases, is because they are helping to keep small villages and remote properties alive and active while the French themselves tend to gravitate to the urban areas and abandon the countryside.

Any comments on this subject would be of interest.

Cheers.

[SaligoBay]

I've just written a whole lot of stuff about urban/rural and deleted it again (hooray, I hear you all cry!).

The shortened version is...

If you need a job, find one first, and THEN worry about where you can afford to live.  Yes, you'll almost certainly have a smaller and more expensive property in a town/city than those smug people with their 75 hectares for 30 euros.

But if you're young and vibrant and still interested in life, the city's the place to find it, there's no doubt about that.

Good luck with the job hunt!    

 

 

 

 

[dang65]

I certainly intend to get a job first, but I only want to move the family to France if it's going to improve our standard of living.  If we're not going to be able to get a bigger property than we have in the UK, and better schools and a lower cost of living, then there's not really much point in moving, beyond having a bit of an adventure which is probably not the best priority really.

[Missy]

[quote]Hello. First post here and not sure if this has been covered before, so sorry if it has. We're just starting out on investigating options to move to France in maybe a year, maybe two. We'll be taki...[/quote]

Town or Country?...

For my money Town

My reasons :

- First and foremost : I do not want to run a car once I have moved back home. The savings I'll make!!

- Every day commerces are just round the corner.

- More jobs around than rural areas.

- Good public transport.

- Cinemas, libraries, cultural events, museums, sports venues, gyms, swimming pools all in town for most.

- Hospitals, dentists, train station all in town.

- Cafés, restaurants/places to meet your friends.

Living in UK at the moment in a very rural area of Wales and all of that is only accessible at the end of a car journey from a loaf of bread to going to see a film or going to the doctor...

Spontaneity is none existant as you have to think a day in advance for anything!

I can't say : 'Oh! I fancy some ice-cream now but got none in freezer so let's go to the corner shop for some! at the same time pop in to see so and so or see this latest film! ...

My nearest food shop 4 miles, nearest cinema is 20 miles away!...

My doctor is 12 miles, nearest hospital/casualty department 20 miles....

So it really depends on what you want out of your new life which will decide where you go... Town? Country?...

Best of luck!

[Mpprh]

Hi

I've tried both. Both have their pros & cons. Our last 7 houses have been rural, less than 10 kms to a small town and less than 50 kms to a city.

If your rural village location has a Boulangerie, that may be the perfect solution.

The best of both worlds ?

Current location : about 30 kms from 2 cities, with a shop http://tlp.netfirms.com/ribansolette.htm

Peter

 

 

[SaligoBay]

[quote]I certainly intend to get a job first, but I only want to move the family to France if it's going to improve our standard of living. If we're not going to be able to get a bigger property than we hav...[/quote]

Maybe if you could say where you're thinking of looking, someone might be able to give you more information about the area?   Bordeaux might be cheaper than Montpellier, for example.  Or it might not, I've never been to Bordeaux!

Have you looked at any estate agents online to see the prices?

We're partly urban, I suppose, getting more so every year, but just no comparison with something the same price in the south of England (i.e. the spacious 3-bed Southampton semi, fully dg, GCH, off-road parking for 3 cars, garden, etc etc).   Here we have no dg, no ch, and we can't get the car into the 1-space offroad parking, all for the same price, but I can't imagine going back.

Unless someone offered me a proper JOB, of course! 

[Chrissie]

Unless you're planning on moving to one of the huge towns here, it should be possible to live in a reasonably rural area within a short commuting distance - if that is what you want.  Of course Paris, Toulouse, Lyons, Marseilles ---- that's a different question altogether.

I believe that rural life is fine for people who are "into" country living, (sorry, appreciate that seems like stating the bleedin' obvious), but for those who want to develop a social life and need for whatever reason to be near chemists, grocers, schools, physiotherapists....pick a town or a nice suburb.  Even keen gardeners can get a perfectly decent-sized plot of land without taking the 4x4 into the hinterland....

As someone else said - find your job and then see what houses you can find within your comfortable travelling time.

Good luck

Chrissie (81)

 

[Llantony]

[quote]I certainly intend to get a job first, but I only want to move the family to France if it's going to improve our standard of living. If we're not going to be able to get a bigger property than we hav...[/quote]

You won't get a lower cost of living, most people think it's about the same, electricity and water being more expensive.

Do you love France?  Do you speak fluent French?  Otherwise unlikely to get a job, and many jobs are lower paid than in the UK.  Even with French, chances of getting a job in the countryside are low, unemployment high.  Perhaps a small town? 

Good luck if you decide to try, but remember if UK house prices take another leap you might not be able to afford to move back.

[letrangere]

Bordeaux might be cheaper than Montpellier, for example.  Or it might not, I've never been to Bordeaux!

SB, you must go to Bor-deaux, it's beautiful.  Best French friend has an appartment in the city centre, bought it 7 years ago pour les enfants when they were at uni there.  Now valued at around Euros 500,000, ie almost Paris prices.  Although the city appears to be booming, both her children had to move to the capital to find employment after graduating. 

Full marks to the poster for such a realistic approach.  Am personally very interested in this town v country debate and often wonder why so many retirees opt for the middle of nowhere.

M

[Dick Smith]

Margaret - to answer your question from our experience, Julie and I bought our place (holiday/retirement) when we were both incredibly stressed by our work and general lives, so the peaceful calm of the countryside was like cool water to a thirsting couple. And it still is, but we have now started to hanker for a place near boulangerie and bar, where we don't have to drive for everything and we have more than 2 neighbours (hard to integrate in those circumstances, too). It is also less vital now that we are near the channel ports, so somewhere a bit warmer than Normandy. Maybe we'll move when we get a bit older and crumblier, perhaps an apartment or small house in a small town...

[letrangere]

Thank you Dick, useful insight.  Interesting to note when, for example, looking for a rambling house with land en Perigord that a modern apartment with balcony on the Cote d'Azur with distant glimpse of the Mediterranean can be picked up for around the same price today.  Different experience, admittedly, for there won't be the peace and quiet of country life, nor the slow pace.  But neither will you have to wade through mud when going out to the car in winter or have to nip out and chop wood on freezing cold nights to keep warm. I know Nice isn't exactly tropical in mid-winter but has anyone ever been anywhere in France colder or damper in mid-Feb than Nontron?  I shiver still at the memory...  M 

[Fritz]

For what it's worth, here's my pitch.

Four years ago we bought in the country; big garden etc which needs lots of work plus constant maintenance with old house. All very nice plus a smallish pretty town 10 miles away. But as early retraitees it's beginning to get a bit dull, in spite of G & T's around the pool, etc, etc. Nice folk, neighbours around but always the same. Local restaurants too tend to serve up exactly the same menus every year, bars shut often, and early, and the shops haven't changed for 30 years, it seems.

So, a bit of a financial gamble we've bought a sea-view, Aquitaine property, spitting distance of elegant beach and busy town. And it's fantastic, especially in the Spring (and hopefully the same in the autumn). Loads to do, French improving faster, more resturants than one could ever shake a stick at. It's rented peak holiday times (a bit too busy for us), so pays it way.

Big downside though. It was twice as expensive to buy than the house.

 

[dang65]

Thanks for all the replies.

We're a youngish family with 3 young children + 1 older son who will have left school and will probably stay at college or uni in England.  I think the fact is that we would almost certainly move to a large town if we went to France.  We're going for a stay near Poitiers next week as part of our research.  I like the Dordogne too, of course, but not sure if it would be practical for us.

I like the idea of living close to a town so we can have a garden and parking etc but still have facilities near by.  I cycle to work here in the UK (about 10 miles through countryside between home and work) so that sort of range would be fine.  I really don't want to have to rely on the car all the time, though we do have one for famly use of course.  We lived in the middle of nowhere in the Isle of Man for a couple of years and basically had to drive everywhere.  Lovely place, but feeling of total isolation which can do your head in after a while.

My French is conversational, but needs plenty of work to get anywhere near fluent, but I work in IT as a programmer, which is a fairly universal language and doesn't require the sort of verbal interaction as you might find in many other jobs.  I understand that Poitiers, with Futuroscope nearby, has set itself up as the IT capital of France, but I need to check local job ads etc when we're over there.  No doubt I'll post plenty more questions as time goes by.

[Tourangelle]

Really you want a town and not a city, take it from one who works and lives in a city! It is very expensive here (Lyon) and to be honest I don't think I have a better quality of life than I would if I were in Britain. It doesn't help that I am in a particularly polluted part of France, the wind blowing up the Rhone valley brings all the nasty stuff that is pumped out of the factories and the refinaries and the motorway going through the city centre doesn't help either. I would never have kids here, especially young ones at exhaust pipe level. The other thing is that if you want to have a house you have to live way out in the suburbs, because there aren't any otherwise (unless you are super rich). So a car is essential, paradoxically. I'd go for a medium sized town if I were you.

[Evianers]

Being city born and bred, we decided not to go for the rural retreat and so opted for Evian [er..... natch]. This has the best of hundreds of different worlds: wonderful view of Lac Leman, superb views of the mountains behind, Geneva with its international airport 37 kms away, Lausanne 35 minutes by boat, heaps to do, see, cultural activities, multinational community. But, the downside is the cost: the Haute Savoie is simply fantastic but is one of the fastest rising in price, especially for property. However, if one has sold in the UK for a phenomenal price, then almost any house in France is cheaper.

[Evianers]

Being city born and bred, we decided not to go for the rural retreat and so opted for Evian [er..... natch]. This has the best of hundreds of different worlds: wonderful view of Lac Leman, superb views of the mountains behind, Geneva with its international airport 37 kms away, Lausanne 35 minutes by boat, heaps to do, see, cultural activities, multinational community. But, the downside is the cost: the Haute Savoie is simply fantastic but is one of the fastest rising in price, especially for property. However, if one has sold in the UK for a phenomenal price, then almost any house in France is cheaper.

[sikhim]

Hi, I also live in Lyon and agree that it is very expensive. The price of properties is getting quite exhorbitant and I think very bad value for what you get.  We are renting a new appartment and I am amazed at how bad some of the workmanship and insulation is. I just cannot believe it's up to French standards, but apparently, it is.

We moved to Lyon because there is a good school for our son's education (he's 14) and it would not have necessarily been a first choice otherwise.

Having said that, I love Lyon. We had also considered Bourges, near my brother, and a town we used to visit regularly and enjoy, but now when I go back, I find it rather small. As we say in French "on en a vite fait le tour".

Whilst I agree with Touragelle, I find Lyon an improvement on our life in Dublin where the quality of life has deteriorated considerably since the advent of the Celtic Tiger. At least, in Lyon there is a decent public transport system.

Despite this, I am not sure that we will stay here once/if our son goes to higher education somewhere else. We may move to a smaller place or more south.  Reading the post about Evian, I must say it sounds very attractive except for the price of property, which is obviously a big 'except'.

Best of luck in your move

Dominique

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cat]

Another thing to consider is the excellent train service available in parts of France. I don't drive, and so when I moved to France one of the primary considerations was to be in a small town (village really by English standards) with all amenities within walking distance,  but also near enough to a railway station to allow easy access to the larger towns/cities if need be.

We have 3 boulangeries, a butcher, a pharmacy, doctor, twice weekly market, shoe shop, clothes shop, 3 bars, 1 restaurant, flower/furniture shop, small independent supermarket, school and college, open air swimming pool all within 5 minutes walk of the house. And a railway station 15 minutes away running direct trains to Cahors/Toulouse/Brieve/Paris. The open countryside is literally a stone's throw from my doorstep, so I feel I get the best of both worlds.

If quality of life is one of the main reasons for your move then the city life here may not be way to go for you, and could be no better than the equivalent in the UK. On the other hand I know quite a few people here who opted for the imagined tranquility of total rural isolation, but who, after a couple of years found the inconvenience of maintaining acres of land, and the necessity to use the car for even the shortest journey a compelling reason to search for something in a large village/small town.

Accessabilty to ports/airports may be another consideration, I chose to be within reasonable distance of 4 airports, partly because of the uncertain future of some of Ryaniar's subsidised airports in France. To rely totally on just one "Ryanair only" airport is possibly courting disaster.

Like you I worked in software development in the Uk.  Although I am not working (or indeed currently looking for work) at the moment, it is true that English/American is the universal language for software development (and I should know, as I used to work for a French software company where the primary spoken language, even for the French developers in the Paris office, was English). The opportunities for tele-working are far greater in your field, so you have a better chance of finding work without the necessity to live in a city.

Good luck with whatever you eventually decide on.

 

 

[C & J]

Hi there,

You'll find that many Brits who are currently living in the countryside in France have poor ressources in terms of revenue (retirement funds, revenue from selling a home in the UK etc..). For this specific reason, they end up living in the places that the Frenchies have already deserted due to the lack of jobs and prospects.

Personnally, I would recommend working in a big town where you can enjoy the night-life/the shops/the restaurants etc... and living in the surrounding areas where properties are gonna be affordable. You can also look into commuting to work as the French railway network is absolutely brilliant (when they are not on strike that is...)

Where you should look really depends on the type of job that you are looking for as well as the industry/sector. I have recently found a good job for myself in Paris and it only took me 3 months in total to get through the CV/Interview process. Let me know which type of job and sector you are looking for and I'll give you a few suggestions.

Good luck!

C&J

[Alexis]

When we moved out of Chateau Despair whilst the septic tank was put in, we fully intended to move back...we went to my town house.

Perhaps big village house is more accurate.

I, I mean we, have decided to stop there.  Flog here.

The country is brilliant in summer and I am a keen gardener so I appreciate the amount of land we have but as everyone says, you need the car for everything.  Winters can be very, very, long and lonely.

I like walking to the shops and I especially like going to a restaurant and actually DRINKING........

 

[sophie.b]

I moved here a couple of years ago and after living and working in London, I decided that moving to the heart of the countryside was probably going to be too much of a culture shock and so bought in a small town in the Limousin.

It's been really nice living in a pretty part of the countryside with rolling hills two minutes away but still having shops for the essentials (boulangerie, bar, pharmacy) around the corner and a supermarket as well.  The only slight hassle with "popping to the shops" is that unlike the UK, even in a town they close early - like 7/7:30pm.

That said, although my town is more lively than living in the heart of the countryside, social life is still pretty quiet with many of the locals being aged about 157!  So, I'm now looking to move to Poitiers and have been looking for a house.  Despite having a TGV link to Paris, properties there don't seem to be a lot more expensive than where I'm living now which has been an eye-opener for me and much cheaper than buying in a city in the UK.  And, being a university town, there are loads of young people and lots going on.

 

[Tourangelle]

Your comment on the shops made me laugh because a French friend only recently was complaining about shop opening times in Britain. Her argument was,ok, you can buy food all the time, but if you want to get clothes or buy a present after work, you have to wait til Thursdays!

[Missy]

[quote]Your comment on the shops made me laugh because a French friend only recently was complaining about shop opening times in Britain. Her argument was,ok, you can buy food all the time, but if you want ...[/quote]

Why wait till Thursday?... I'd have a job where I live (Wales) because the shopkeepers in this little town, are still trading under this ancient custom of 1/2 day closing! and Thursday is the day!

An excellent funny book called in English 'England closes at 5' (L'Angleterre ferme à 5 heures)

Unfortunately all in French and I have forgotten the details for it. Will look it up when I go home this evening and if any of you have a fair knowledge of French, there is another good read for your long summer evenings...

[Russethouse]

Late night opening here on Thursdays !

[Deimos]

Quote: “My French is conversational, but needs plenty of work to get anywhere near fluent, but I work in IT as a programmer, which is a fairly universal language and doesn't require the sort of verbal interaction as you might find in many other jobs. I understand that Poitiers, with Futuroscope nearby, has set itself up as the IT capital of France, but I need to check local job ads etc when we're over there.”

I think any employer will expect you to be fluent in French, even if you work in IT. Unemployment in France is very high at the moment and there is a lot of competition for jobs. Not being fluent will put you at quite a disadvantage whatever your skills.

To my mind there is no answer to the town or country debate. Different people like different things (fortunately). Also, it is not “black & white” in that you can live rurally and stil be within walking distance of supermarkets, shops, etc. (I am).

With regard to the cost of living, my own opinion is that many British people moving to France also have a significant change of lifestyle when they move which is where the lower cost of living comes in. Certainly some things are cheaper and others more expensive. Certainly in my case I spend a lot less living in France than I did living in the UK. However, I am living very differently so my current lifestyle in the UK would also be cheaper.