Ron Avery Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I thought I heard on the UK TV that there is a proposal that all cars in the UK whether on the road or not will have to be insured, the same as in theory happens in France. If that is the case one wonders how this will be checked, will all SORN'd cars have to show insurance to stay SORN'd? It could also mean that there is a rash of French registrations of UK cars as all those SORN'd cars already here suddenly get exported to France and insured.[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Ron, I haven't lived in UK for many, many years so don't know what SORN'd means, but I suspect it is similar to what happens to SORNoff shotguns. Please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Statutory Off Road Notification http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022058All cars have to have continuous road tax in the UK unless they are covered by a SORN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 You were not dreaming - it is a nightmare.The civil servant explaining it on R4 was as clear as mud about it.He seemed bothered about uninsured cars - how will this stop that?It is just a heavier handed stealth tax an upgraded SORN and an attempt to make insurance companies increased profits.He did mention it was based at the super new dept. at Milton Keynes I guess this is where the computerised system that check insurance/tax operates from. No doubt costing more to operate than offering cheap insurance to those not well off.When they upgraded/set up the new data base must have been when they got rid of what they think are dormant vehicles thus stealing some number plates from me.When will they realise that everyone depends on road transport and drop the road tax. Adding insurance to the price of fuel would stop the rogues. After the banks insurance companies are rip-off merchants.Usually they make loopholes so whip the wheels of your Aston or get the wheels off the ground and it will not be a car - but I forget - even a motorcycle frame can be deemed a vehicle. Makes you want to go and live in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Thank you, Ron.Is there any reason why a vehicle that is off the road should not be insured in some way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 News article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote user="woolybanana"]Thank you, Ron.Is there any reason why a vehicle that is off the road should not be insured in some way?[/quote]I had a trials motorbike that was never ridden on road, only off road in competition. That wasn't insured but has a SORN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 There are lot of reasons.WB Unlike in France where as you probably know but Dog may not, you have to have insurance even if a vehicle is not in use, in the UK as mentioned there are off road vehicles that do not go on the public road, plus many vehicles in preservation and or restoration.What I find intriging is how those who have UK plated cars on the road in France, maybe even insured and CT'd but SORN'd in the UK to avoid paying road tax, are going to get out of this one. Could this see the end of those old UK registered and blank windscreened holiday cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 They will be sorely missed.But is this another example of a government trying every trick in the book to squeeze more tax from the existing system by bending the rules or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 This is a step to far and I too fail to see how it will stop uninsured drivers taking to the road.There can be several legitimate reasons for a car to be uninsured.Say you are going on holiday for a month or 2 or 3 or whatever, and your insurance runs out just at the same time as you are due to leave. If the tax remained valid then it would not even need SORN'ing so why should you have to pay for that dead period when you won't even be in the country let alone driving the car. Say the car suffers a major breakdown or is accident damaged and the insurance expires whilst it is in dock being repaired. If the MOT happened to run out too under current procedures you wouldn't be able to re-insure even if you wanted to.I could probably think of more but it's bo****ks and actually has made me quite angry [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 So a SORN'd vehicle will need to be insured, may as well insist it has an MOT as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote user="ErnieY"]This is a step to far and I too fail to see how it will stop uninsured drivers taking to the road.Calm down dear!!! If all cars not SORN'd have to be insured then none can be uninsured, this gets at those who park up off road on private land and so avoid getting done for no insurance unless caught on the road.There can be several legitimate reasons for a car to be uninsured. Yes of course there are and as many illegal ones.Say you are going on holiday for a month or 2 or 3 or whatever, and your insurance runs out just at the same time as you are due to leave. If the tax remained valid then it would not even need SORN'ing so why should you have to pay for that dead period when you won't even be in the country let alone driving the car. This argument does really not stack up, if you insure your car and go abroad on holiday not taking it with you cannot suspend whilst its not being used, The only people that this scenario would affect is anyone who makes a career out of timing their insurance renewal to coincide with their holiday abroad just to save a few pennies. Say the car suffers a major breakdown or is accident damaged and the insurance expires whilst it is in dock being repaired. If the MOT happened to run out too under current procedures you wouldn't be able to re-insure even if you wanted to.Under these proposalsd the car can be SORN'd and exempt from the proposals. I could probably think of more but it's bo****ks and actually has made me quite angry [:@][/quote]And the bit you took out. "I actually have a car SORN'ed in UK which is not going to see the road for the forseesable future so what possible reason can there be for me to have to insure it which incidentally, as a non UK resident, I couldn't do anyway, and if I don't are they going to break into the garage where it is stored and steal and crush it. Now I have seen the article (Thanks for the link Gary, bit surprised that you are reading that paper Socialist Worker sold out?? [:D], it really does not affect many in France who have SORN'd cars as they are exempt mores the pity!! "The new offence of keeping an uninsured car will not apply to any motorist who has filled out a form - known as a Statutory Off Road Notification - confirming that the vehicle is not being driven". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What are you all getting your knickers in a twist for?The new offence of keeping an uninsured car will not apply to any motorist who has filled out a form - known as a Statutory Off Road Notification - confirming that the vehicle is not being driven. - or at least not in England [:-))]Or was that report contrary to some other reporting?Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant!EdittedI didnt see that Ron had highlighted this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If you have a car that is being used on the road, then you need the full monty - tax, MOT and insurance.If you have a car that is not being used on the road, then you declare SORN and the full monty is no longer required.What could be simpler than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Agreed, and I have no problem with SORN in principal, but to have to declare it for a month or 2 because of the sort of circumstances I mentioned is ludicrous and a complete waste of time and effort and all it will do is unfairly penalise innocent people who either forget to SORN or are otherwise unable to do so say through major illness or being unexpectedly called away from home. Or what if you got stuck for 2 weeks in a foreign airport, remember Thailand not so long ago, there are any number of possibilities.Furthermore there are already enough horror stories of the DVLA denying receiving SORN's and apparently their stance is that it's up to you to make confirm they have received it which means posting by Recorded or Special Delivery which comes at a cost. Cynics may see 'lost' SORNS as just another way of raking in money from the captive and defenceless motorist.I can just see them in Swansea now, 'one for the register, one for the bin' kerrrrching, another £80 with no arguments entertained, thank you very much [:'(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You can actually do it in another couple of provable ways Ernie, take the form to your post office, I did this last year but the details are fuzzy, I think they sent it off, they definitely and gave me a franked receipt, I'm fairly sure that I also got another acknowledgement in the post. Actually he reciept was probably my after UK neighbour forging my signature and sending it off for me.And I'm failrly certain that you can also declare SORN on line.I do agree that it is really just a money making scheme to occupy gratte papiers, it also makes it far too much hassle for people to start front or back garden collections of scrap cars, there wont be many more discoveries of hoards of classics stashed away in barns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote user="Sunday Driver"]If you have a car that is being used on the road, then you need the full monty - tax, MOT and insurance.If you have a car that is not being used on the road, then you declare SORN and the full monty is no longer required.What could be simpler than that? [/quote]You do not need the full monty if you are the police, the army, navy, airforce or the Queen.If you tarmac drives, fit plastic soffits and hare course for a hobby you do not need even a full monty.It would also seem that if your car is registered in Poland monty is not needed.What could be simpler than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote user="Ron Avery"]There are lot of reasons.WB Unlike in France where as you probably know but Dog may not, you have to have insurance even if a vehicle is not in use, in the UK as mentioned there are off road vehicles that do not go on the public road, plus many vehicles in preservation and or restoration.What I find intriging is how those who have UK plated cars on the road in France, maybe even insured and CT'd but SORN'd in the UK to avoid paying road tax, are going to get out of this one. Could this see the end of those old UK registered and blank windscreened holiday cars?[/quote] I did not realise that laid up vehicles are required to have insurance in France. Tell more and why?My insurance man has not told me about this and I would have thought it's in his interest to do so. In fact he told me motorcyclists often buy six month insurance just for the summer months.There are moto-cross bikes using public roads in my area with no number plates it doesn't seem to worry them and in the forests on route rurals I come across old boys in rotting vans belching out diesel fumes, that just seem to travel from their hamlet into the woods. There is no way these vehicles have insurance or CTs.One of my neighbours is currently building a van for the woods as he calls it out of an old van and engine gearbox from a car.Greatful for more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 VEHICULE TERRESTRE A MOTEUR : Tout véhicule terrestre à moteur est soumis à l'obligation d'assurance. Il est donc essentiel d'en connaître la définition: il s'agit de "tout engin destiné au transport de personnes ou de choses circulant sur le sol mû par une force motrice quelconque". Vous noterez que la notion d'immatriculation est sans incidence sur cette obligation ATTENTION donc car la jurisprudence considère comme véhicule terrestre à moteur (donc soumis à l'obligation d'assurance R.C): une tondeuse à gazon auto porteuse (!), un modèle réduit mû par une batterie sur lequel monte les enfants. Vérifiez donc que votre contrat habitation prévoit ce type d'assurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote user="BJSLIV"]VEHICULE TERRESTRE A MOTEUR : Tout véhicule terrestre à moteur est soumis à l'obligation d'assurance. Il est donc essentiel d'en connaître la définition: il s'agit de "tout engin destiné au transport de personnes ou de choses circulant sur le sol mû par une force motrice quelconque". Vous noterez que la notion d'immatriculation est sans incidence sur cette obligation ATTENTION donc car la jurisprudence considère comme véhicule terrestre à moteur (donc soumis à l'obligation d'assurance R.C): une tondeuse à gazon auto porteuse (!), un modèle réduit mû par une batterie sur lequel monte les enfants. Vérifiez donc que votre contrat habitation prévoit ce type d'assurance.[/quote]So I take it house insurance should cover unused vehicles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil & Pat Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote user="Dog"][quote user="BJSLIV"]VEHICULE TERRESTRE A MOTEUR : Tout véhicule terrestre à moteur est soumis à l'obligation d'assurance. Il est donc essentiel d'en connaître la définition: il s'agit de "tout engin destiné au transport de personnes ou de choses circulant sur le sol mû par une force motrice quelconque". Vous noterez que la notion d'immatriculation est sans incidence sur cette obligation ATTENTION donc car la jurisprudence considère comme véhicule terrestre à moteur (donc soumis à l'obligation d'assurance R.C): une tondeuse à gazon auto porteuse (!), un modèle réduit mû par une batterie sur lequel monte les enfants. Vérifiez donc que votre contrat habitation prévoit ce type d'assurance.[/quote]So I take it house insurance should cover unused vehicles?[/quote]Not quite, they are suggesting you check that it does (if you need it to) cover ride on lawnmowers, powered toy cars and the like. No mention of normal road vehicles on a contrat habitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The MAFF habitation policy specifically excludes vehicles but makes an exception for mowers, mini-tractors & toy cars etc with a maximum speed of 9Kphhttp://www.maaf.fr/assurances/fr/c_5835/mon-habitation-assurance-habitation-garanties-completesI assume that other similar policies would have similar conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I wonder if this alleged requirement to have assurance for a motor vehicle in France, even if it is off the road, stored in a garage etc is an urban myth.I cannot actually find any piece of legislation that says a motor vehicle must always be insured even if off the road. Perhaps it has arisen because the French assurance coys make it difficult to cancel an assurance contract If you have not sold the car or scapped the car then you have to wait until the contract is coming up for renewal and then 2 months before the renewal date you write a letter to cancel .The assurance coy will then just cancel the assurance.Any pointers toward legislation that says a motor vehicle must be insured at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote user="Boiling a frog"] is an urban myth. If you have not sold the car or scapped the car then you have to wait until the contract is coming up for renewal and then 2 months before the renewal date you write a letter to canc [/quote]You've just perpetuated an urban myth. Try Googling Loi Chattel.Sorry, I can't help with your query. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote user="ErnieY"].Furthermore there are already enough horror stories of the DVLA denying receiving SORN's ...[/quote]Do it on-line. Instant confirmation.Craig, with 5 bikes currently SORNed in the UK and looking for a garage to rent in/near Montpellier ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now