French insurance for a UK car

[SteveB]

I would be grateful for informed opinions on the question below. I know the general area has been touched on many times, but I cannot find a clear answer!

I am NOT a resident of France – we live in the UK

(have a house and receive my pension there etc etc), but we do have a

"maison secondaire" in the Var, which we and the family use for

breaks and holidays, probably in total around 3-4 months each year. We have an

(old) English registered car which we use in France for around 9-10

months each year, bringing it back to the UK for 2-3 months in the winter for

MOT etc. For most of the time in France it is parked in an airport car park

between our visits. The car is taxed and MOT'd in the UK, but insured in France

(through an agency in Beaune with AXA France) – which, being a policy from an

EU country, also gives me (minimum) cover for when I bring it back to the UK.

 

The agency tells me that, from the insurance point of view,

there is no need to register the car in France, that I can continue this for as

many years as I wish, and indeed they have renewed the policy year-on-year

quite happily.

 

My question is: Is this "legal"? – or am I liable

to problems in France if either the police or other authorities stop me, or

from the insurance point of view if I have an accident there?

[BJSLIV]

I am surprised that you are able to retax the car in the UK, as it will show up on the Swansea database as being uninsured.

[Bob T]

Why do you think that your French insurance company would make sure that you comply with French law? They are there to make money, and the police enforce the law.

French law says that if the car is in France over a certain amount of time then it must be imported and registered. If you read past threads this has been covered many times.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="SteveB"]

My question is: Is this "legal"? – or am I liable to problems in France if either the police or other authorities stop me, or from the insurance point of view if I have an accident there

[/quote]

In a word, no. For the following reasons, (there may be others);

A vehicle must be registered, if it is in the country for more than 6 months out of 12.

Your car must be legal in it's country of registration. A UK car must be insured with a UK company, to be legal in the UK.

Your car must be legal to make the insurance valid - AXA are notorious for issuing polices on illegal vehicles.

You cannot get UK tax with French insurance. Read the info on the DVLA website.

etc etc

 

[Sunday Driver]

The simple solution to making the car legal for leaving in France is to register it here.  Take the initial cost hit, which will then be offset by the ongoing savings on not taking the car back to the UK every winter.

That way, your French insurance will remain valid, you'll only require a French CT every two years, and you won't have to shell out annually for road tax.

No brainer, really.....[;-)]

 

 

 

 

[Cat]

Taken from the MIB (Motor Insurers' Bureau)

UK Registered Vehicle – Foreign Insurance

General Position

• The insurance may have been obtained and provided in good faith but it does not

comply with Section 145 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 unless the insurer complies

with the following criteria:

- Cover on a UK vehicle should only be given by an authorised insurer who

is approved under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and who is

a member of MIB - Section 145(5) of the Road Traffic Act refers.

 

- If the insurance company is not a member of MIB the third party liability

insurance does not comply the law here.

 

You can check if your car is insured through an MIB member here http://www.askmid.com/ownvehicle/

 

[PaulT]

[quote user="SteveB"]

The agency tells me that, from the insurance point of view, there is no need to register the car in France, that I can continue this for as many years as I wish, and indeed they have renewed the policy year-on-year quite happily.

[/quote]

CRAAAAASH

Non Monsieur you are mistaken, we never told you that because you do need to register the car in France so unfortunately the insurance company will not pay out - and we will not be pritting from your insurance premiums, but thanks very much for the past years.

[mint]

On the other hand, if you'd like to buy my Hyundai 1.6 Lantra Estate, RHD, Auto gear box, Ct'd and registered on French plates and only about 35000 miles on the clock, PM me![:D]

No future worries for you and you can keep it here in France for the times when you are over here..........Sorted!

[Pickles]

[quote user="sweet 17"]On the other hand, if you'd like to buy my Hyundai 1.6 Lantra Estate, RHD, Auto gear box, Ct'd and registered on French plates and only about 35000 miles on the clock, PM me![:D]

No future worries for you and you can keep it here in France for the times when you are over here..........Sorted![/quote]

Just remember that if you do re-register your car in France or take up Sweet's no-doubt generous offer you will be able to drive it anywhere in Europe EXCEPT the UK ....

If you want to be able to use the car to go back to the UK, the car has to be UK-registered and compliant, and so you must ensure that the car does not spend more than six months at a stretch in France.

Regards

Pickles

[baypond]

"Just remember that if you do re-register your car in France or take up

Sweet's no-doubt generous offer you will be able to drive it anywhere

in Europe EXCEPT the UK ...."

That can't be right? really?

If it is legal, insured, C/T'd and registered in France, then it is legal to be driven in the UK, surely...

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="baypond"]"Just remember that if you do re-register your car in France or take up Sweet's no-doubt generous offer you will be able to drive it anywhere in Europe EXCEPT the UK ...."

That can't be right? really?
If it is legal, insured, C/T'd and registered in France, then it is legal to be driven in the UK, surely...
[/quote]

How many times?

It is illegal to drive a foreign-registered car in your country of residence. Thats how!!

 

[bigears]

hi

whose law is being broken if a foreign reg car stays for example in france for more than 6 months.  Do motorhomes not stay out of the uk for that sort of time?  As long as they are legal in their country of registration, is that not sufficient.

[AnOther]

French, the country where the car is obviously, but it's an EU based initiative so effectively applies to all EU states including UK.

The point about motorhomes is taken but as they say, the law is an ass (donkey) and it seems it has yet to catch up with the 20th century let alone the 21st [:)]

[bigears]

ernie, retirement is fantastic as long as you have loads of interesting things to do.  Does the car/motorhome have to go back to the country of registration or just move on to another country after 6 months is up. 

[SteveB]

This gets more complicated than the rules of golf!!

Just to

clarify - as a resident of UK, does that mean I cannot drive ANY

foreign registered car in the UK, or just a foreign registered car that

I own??

Thanks for all your help.

[AnOther]

[quote user="bigears"]ernie, retirement is fantastic as long as you

have loads of interesting things to do[/quote]And having to still work is a pi55er for the same reason [:'(]

Once you've reached your 6 months I see no reason why you could just move to another country for the next 6 months, then another, and another, ad nauseum - always ensuring of course that the vehicle is kept legal in it's home country.

Of course within the Schengen countries there is no specific record of cross border movement so who is to say where you have been and for how long although if requited to account for yourself the prove it the onus would always be on you to prove what you claimed.

[quote user="SteveB"]Just to

clarify - as a resident of UK, does that mean I cannot drive ANY

foreign registered car in the UK, or just a foreign registered car that

I own??[/quote]Neither. UK resident are not permitted to drive foreign registered cars - period.

The is an exception which is that you may drive a foreign vehicle belonging to a friend or relative AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN THE CAR WITH YOU.

Noel Edmunds is also an exception but that's because he's rich [:P]

[allanb]

[quote user="Nick Trollope"]How many times?

It is illegal to drive a foreign-registered car in your country of residence. Thats how!![/quote]For me this is still an unanswered question.  The prohibition exists, but here is what the EU says about it (helpfully quoted by BaF in an earlier thread):

Here again, however, the prohibition has to be interpreted reasonably.

One cannot prohibit a holder of this exemption from carrying out the

routine tasks of daily life or responding to duly substantiated exceptional

circumstances. For instance, the Commission considers that the

prohibition on lending such a car does not apply when the holder is on

board but the car is being driven by a resident of the Member State of

temporary "importation". Neither can one treat as prohibited lending a

situation where a resident of one Member State, temporarily visiting his

family or friends in another Member State, allows a member of the

family or a friend to make occasional use of the car.

Extracted from

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/com_en.pdf

(page 16)

The "exemption" referred to is exemption from taxation on a vehicle temporarily imported. 

It would be interesting to know whether this would be recognized and respected by the DVLA or the police in the UK.

[bigears]

hi

does that mean as a uk resident I can drive my wifes french registered car in the uk if she is sitting next to me, but she cannot.  We have vehicles registered and based in both france and the uk.  Nowadays we try to fly back and forwards, just ocassionally when we need to transport something big, we take the transit to the uk and back.  Ultimately you can find situations where you are acting illegally (?) when it seems a reasonable thing to do. 

[baypond]

baypond wrote:

"Just remember that if you do re-register your car in France or take up Sweet's no-doubt generous offer you will be able to drive it anywhere in Europe EXCEPT the UK ...." That can't be right? really? If it is legal, insured, C/T'd and registered in France, then it is legal to be driven in the UK, surely...

Nick Trollope wrote:

How many times?

It is illegal to drive a foreign-registered car in your country of residence. Thats how!!

Maybe I have missed the point somewhere.

I am UK resident with a maison secondaire. I took a UK renault clio to use in France, and changed it to fully comply with all regs in France i.e CT, insurance , carte gris etc.

It stays at the house in France permenently, but are you saying that now I have done this, I can't drive the same car to the UK for the weekend and return a few days later if I needed to?

[bigears]

hi baypond, I think its a farce, see my earlier post.  In practice I cannot believe you would ever be taken to task for it.

[BJSLIV]

From the DVLA website.

If you permanently import a vehicle into the UK, by law you must register and tax it at the nearest DVLA local office as soon as it arrives in this country. It is against the law for a British resident to drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates in the UK.

Regular readers will recall that our lorry driver friend found out recently, if you are stopped, and they consider that are a UK resident driving a foreign car, steps will be taken.

There is no six month temporary importation period if you are a UK resident. Subtle excuses such as it's my wife's car won't wash. If the car belongs to a french resident that would be different. If you are in the situation where the wife lives in France but the husband is still working in the UK, then I would make sure that you have plenty of evidence on board!

 

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="baypond"]Maybe I have missed the point somewhere.

I am UK resident with a maison secondaire. I took a UK renault clio to use in France, and changed it to fully comply with all regs in France i.e CT, insurance , carte gris etc.

It stays at the house in France permenently, but are you saying that now I have done this, I can't drive the same car to the UK for the weekend and return a few days later if I needed to?[/quote]Technically no you cannot.

[suein56]

[quote user="ErnieY"]Technically no you cannot.[/quote]

Some friends of ours moved back to the UK taking their French registered car with them. They were intending to keep the car until the new car they had ordered arrived. After being in the UK a few weeks they were told be a policeman that they had 2 options: register the car in the UK or sell it, either to be done asap. They were left in no doubt that they would face prosecution if they did not comply.

Sue

[allanb]

There are many possible scenarios.  The reason I'm interested is that when I take my French-registered car to the UK and (among other things) visit my son, who lives there, it is occasionally useful for both of us if he can borrow the car.

This situation exactly matches the last bit of the EU directive already quoted, i.e. -

a situation where a resident of one Member State, temporarily visiting his

family or friends in another Member State, allows a member of the

family or a friend to make occasional use of the car.

I think I'll put the question directly to the DVLA, including the quotation.  I really would like to know, and if the answer is that it is permissible, I'd like to have something in writing, just in case I meet a policeman who isn't familiar with every EU directive - and I wouldn't blame him for that.

[John L]

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="baypond"]Maybe I have missed the point somewhere.

I am UK resident with a maison secondaire. I took a UK renault clio to use in France, and changed it to fully comply with all regs in France i.e CT, insurance , carte gris etc.

It stays at the house in France permenently, but are you saying that now I have done this, I can't drive the same car to the UK for the weekend and return a few days later if I needed to?[/quote]Technically no you cannot.[/quote]

You should never have a problem if you are NOT abusing the system and your vehicle is registered properly in its country of residence/registration.

Always remember that your vehicle and its plates are noted by the authorities on both sides of the channel whenever you make the crossing. So if you are stopped by the police in the UK with a perfectly legal RHD French plated vehicle, it wont be that difficult for them to find out if you are abusing the system.

I lived in France for five years with a properly imported RHD vehicle and visited the UK with the vehicle about five times during that period and I was never stopped. When I finally returned to the UK I simply went to DVLA with the French Carte Gris and was given my original registration number with a new V5.