buying one tyre

[tonyv]

Having today ripped the sidewall on one of the (new last August) tyres on my UK registered Audi, I set off to buy a replacement. Three tyre depots told me they could not source Goodyears, as fitted, but they could get another make, but would have to fit two by law. This despite my insisting that I only wanted one for the spare wheel.

I finally found a depot which was quite happy to source a single Goodyear, albeit at the amazing price of 240€, for a tyre which cost £80 in UK. The unit price, of whatever make, was similar everywhere. They had to order it, due on Wednesday, fingers crossed, but I had no desire to drive the 800 miles to the UK without a spare, so so I coughed up.

So, what about this "law"? I got the feeling that they were trying to fleece an ignorant Englishman, but am open to being corrected. So many things surprise me about French rules.

[Anton Redman II]

This subject comes up frequently on both English language forums about France and French motoring forums. I believe the requirement is that tyres are of the same construction, same manufacturer same specefication and tread pattern and furthermore that there is no more than 5 mm difference in tread depth. Given most modern car tyres have no more than 6mm when new the requirement to replace both is a fiction banged out by the shoddier end of the motor trade.  Best option is turn up with the wheel in another car and say car cannot be moved without a new tyre.

If it was the case how would the businesses which supply and fit second hand tyres survive or trade legally ? These days I have a pair of spare alloys for the Peugeot to which I have new tyres fitted when local Citreon garages have a good offer on Michelins - obviously not an option if you are touring in France.

Short answer you are not being singled out because you are British they try it on with the French as well . My worst ever drive back to the UK was in an early Mk II 16V Golf GTI on the space saver because there were no tyres of the right size in France at that time. Lease company tries to surcharge me for the space saver which was near bald and expensive to replace after very slow drive back from the Med.

 

 

[PaulT]

Different tyre treads will give different amounts of grip so a safety hazard - potential for the car to slew especially under hard braking.

Same tread pattern but marked diffence in tread depth again different grip especially in the wet, once again a safety hazard.

Totally agree with the French tyre dealers - same tread patern and similar tread depth on an axle.

Paul

[Chancer]

I second what Anton says, you are probably not being singled out but it is likely that you or another troublesome Anglais are the only person ever to question them on it, they are lying quite simply or more probably unwittingly passing on a lie told to them bythe tyre companies.

There is a guy in my dive club, he is a motor mechanic and a real know it all, loves the sound of his own voice and is always lecturing the others with a wagging finger about what they should and shouldnt do, how their insurers will not pay out to a third party for various spurious reasons including the matching tyres one and how you will be sent to prison.

I think most of the others realise he is a con and just humour him but I have a different personality and also I have forgotten more about motor vehicles than he will ever know so I challenge him on his more outrageous claims and he rally does not know how to deal with it, he certainy is never able to back up his claims other than I should know, I am the professional, its my metier etc, the others find it entertaining and have been started to use what they call my catch phrase "do you really believe that?"

All the tyre shops in my area sing from the same hymn sheet and would rather lose a sale than lose face, not that it even involves that when I walk in with the wheel under my arm, the one exception is the breakers yard who surprise surprise rarely have matched pairs of part worn tyres, I discussed the cartel with them and that all the garages insist it is the law, he said there was some requirement in the CT so I checked with my test station which is run by the same family, the requirement was for the rolling diameters measured on the brake rollers to be within IIRC 7%, I did some calculations later and on common wheel sizes and tread depth it was impossible for two tryes with legal tead depths to be beyond this figure, perhaps hypothetically a 10" mimi rim with winter tyes could.

I never managed to buy just one tyre so now use part worn sellers in France if I have no other choice or preferebly those in the UK.

 

[Anton Redman II]

[quote user="PaulT"]

Different tyre treads will give different amounts of grip so a safety hazard - potential for the car to slew especially under hard braking.

Same tread pattern but marked diffence in tread depth again different grip especially in the wet, once again a safety hazard.

Totally agree with the French tyre dealers - same tread patern and similar tread depth on an axle.

Paul

[/quote]

You are missing the point. Pair of new tyres at 340,000 kilometres,  nail in side wall at 340,250 of one tyre why do you need two new tyres ?

 

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="PaulT"]Different tyre treads will give different

amounts of grip so a safety hazard - potential for the car to slew

especially under hard braking.

Same tread pattern but marked difference in tread depth again different grip especially in the wet, once again a safety hazard.[/quote]A sound enough argument which is rather negated when you consider the situation with directional tyres as commonly fitted to a great many cars nowadays. How different will be the grip and handling properties of having one tyre rotating in the opposite direction to that it is designed for be. Obviously in the case of a puncture you have a 50% chance of this occurring.

The law in France (by EU directive actually) states much as Anton has said in relation to construction, manufacturer, and specification although it does not actually mention tread pattern or depth.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1992L0023:20060101:en:PDF

In brief:

Annex II (P16)

REQUIREMENTS FOR TYRES

1.DEFINITIONS

2. For the purposes of this Directive:

2.1. ‘type of tyre’ means a category of tyres which do not differ in such

essential respects as:

2.1.1. manufacturer's name or trademark;

2.1.2. tyre-size designation;

2.1.3. category of use:

Not all tyre outlets are as strict and and I had a similar experience to the OP, a front tyre (Continental) was ruined by broken glass in the road and a local ttyre outfit replaced it with an odd Firestone, the only one of the correct size they had in stock, without commet.

[Jonzjob]

I had a tracking problem on our Citroen C8 which took out one of the fronts and I went into a tyre place recomended to me here in Carcassonne. He asked if I had a spare, which I did, and he said that instead of having 2 new tyres, which I had asked for because of this law, he would fit the spare and a new tyre and the best front would then go for the spare.

So please note that there are exceptions. They may be few and far apart, but they are there.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Anton Redman II"][quote user="PaulT"]

Different tyre treads will give different amounts of grip so a safety hazard - potential for the car to slew especially under hard braking.

Same tread pattern but marked diffence in tread depth again different grip especially in the wet, once again a safety hazard.

Totally agree with the French tyre dealers - same tread patern and similar tread depth on an axle.

Paul

[/quote]

You are missing the point. Pair of new tyres at 340,000 kilometres,  nail in side wall at 340,250 of one tyre why do you need two new tyres ?

 

 

[/quote]

To my mind you do not - provided that the tyre replacing the punctured one has the same tread pattern otherwise two new tyres

[tonyv]

Thanks everyone for the responses, even the more pedantic ones. We're not talking F1, for heavens' sake!

Anyway, it looks like I was fortunate to eventually find a depot who was willing and able to sell me a single tyre, albeit at a gross price.

[Chancer]

I know where you are coming from Tony, after lots of reasoning, travelling around to try and achieve what is after all only your right, one ends up feeling very satisfied to get ripped of only €240 for a £80 tyre.

[Lehaut]

Why not just order one from someone like allo pneu, have it delivered to one of their fitters and turn up with the wheel?

[tonyv]

[quote user="Lehaut"]Why not just order one from someone like allo pneu, have it delivered to one of their fitters and turn up with the wheel?[/quote]

Well, that would have been a good idea, if I'd known about them. However, they don't list my 255/40x17 goodyear Eagles, but more to the point, I'm intending to drive the 800 miles back to UK this weekend, and I have no faith in being able to get them in time.

Thanks for the suggestion, anyway; I've bookmarked them.

[Lehaut]

I have actually used them, for my motor bike tyres and was pleased with the result and the service.

If this is the right tyre

EAGLE F1 GS-D3 255/40 R17 94Y VSB BSW,

123pneus.com have them for 171 euros

[tonyv]

Thanks again, Lehaut, yes that's the right one. Unfortunately I've now got one on order (for 240€) from a local tyre depot, who've promised it for Wednesday.

Certainly, the on-line suppliers seem to offer a much better deal, but maybe not when it's urgent.

[dave21478]

[quote user="Lehaut"]Why not just order one from someone like allo pneu, have it delivered to one of their fitters and turn up with the wheel?[/quote]

Because they are a bunch of clowns with a complete disregard for any form of customer service, even by French standards. If all goes well, you will be fine, but if there is a problem with the order....... well, good luck to you.

There is a thread elsewhere on here documenting my recent 8 week saga to order two basic tyres, which is STILL not completely resolved.

[tonyv]

here we go...

The designated day, Wednesday, has come, so we phone 'em up: "has my tyre arrived?". "Désolé, M'sieur, il est bloqué par la neige!" Try again tomorrow!

Amazing how anything gets done out here!

[allanb]

This subject has come up many times and I think it's still highly confusing.

[quote user="AnOther"]The law in France (by EU directive actually) states much as Anton has said in relation to construction, manufacturer, and specification although it does not actually mention tread pattern or depth.

REQUIREMENTS FOR TYRES

1.DEFINITIONS

2. For the purposes of this Directive:

2.1. ‘type of tyre’ means a category of tyres which do not differ in such

essential respects as:

2.1.1. manufacturer's name or trademark;

2.1.2. tyre-size designation;

2.1.3. category of use:

[/quote]

I agree that there is an EU directive that says that.  I'm not sure you're right in referring to French law, though.  The Code de la Route (in Article 314, stating what is prohibited rather than what is required) says that you must not have  

- pneumatiques de catégories

d'utilisation différentes sur un même essieu (pneumatique normal,

pneumatique à usage spécial, "pneu neige");

- pneumatiques de structures différentes sur un même essieu (radial, diagonal, bias-belted).

No mention of manufacturer, unless it's stated in some other part of the Code.

The EU directive that was quoted is dated 1992, so there's been plenty of time to incorporate it in French law, if that was the intention.  How are car owners (or even the Contrôle Technique people) supposed to know what's what?

By the way, the Code de la Route also says specifically that you may have a difference of up to 5 mm in the tread depth of two tyres on the same axle, which is surprising, to say the least.

[Chancer]

New tyres usually have 8mm of tread depth although many manufacturers are beginning to cheat us to make greater profits, the minimum tread depth in Europe is 1.6mm.

If your tyres are only parially worn and have 3mm remaining, practically twice the legal limit before you have a puncture then the unused spare tyre will have 5mm more of tread so in those terms the Code de la route does not surprise me.

Tyres only give their maximum grip on dry roads as they approach the legal limit, wet grip which most are more concerned with is the opposite see here http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=85.

The initial 3 mm of tread depth wears away much faster than the remaining 3mm due to the flexing action of the tread blocks, I only now buy part worn tyres but am choosy about what I select, I get far more miles out of the tread remaining on my tyres  than the first owner who replaced them early.

[allanb]

[quote user="Chancer"]If your tyres are only partially worn and have 3mm remaining, practically twice the legal limit before you have a puncture then the unused spare tyre will have 5mm more of tread so in those terms the Code de la route does not surprise me.[/quote]

That makes sense.  I suppose I found it surprising because intuitively it seemed more important than some of the other differences.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Tyres only give their maximum grip on dry roads as they approach the legal limit, wet grip which most are more concerned with is the opposite see here http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=85.

[/quote]

And with the right compound, grip far better when totally bald, JRC: which was why we used slicks.

I managed to get caught out during the Burkett Trophy (6 Hour Relay) at Thruxton on slicks as the weather changed to slight drizzle: and eventually increasing rain. I was however, determined to finish my spell.

Negotiating Church and then Brooklands (The straightish bit and the fastest section of the circuit) at 120 MPH plus was to say the least, fun............

All of which minds me to recall a very amusing little tale.

I used to buy just scrubbed Firestone YB11 F3 (Front) slicks from Bob Howlings in Liverpool: and these were sent down by the first fast overnight courier service started by Securicor, which was not cheap!

After a few visits, the van driver, who had always looked most puzzled when he came into the showroom said, "Scuse me, Guv: do you mind if I asks you a question?"

"Not at all." I responded.

"Well, why are you spending such large amounts of cash having bald tyres sent down from Liverpool?"

[:D]