londoneye Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Hi everyoneAbout 6 months ago OH (let's call him Mr Stupid!) decided not to bother stopping at a white line, as there was no traffic coming and continued on his merry way. We were stopped by gendarmes and given a fine, which we paid the next day.There were no points indicated on the contravention.Today, same gendarmes just came to our house and told us that OH has to present himself at Gendarmerie tomorrow with his UK licence and proof that he is French resident. He then has to change to a French licence. Oh, and for good measure I have to change as well, according to them.They showed me a piece of paper which looked like it had been typed out by one of their children, it was so shoddy, which (with lots of finger pointing at the last point on the big list) confidently declared that the law has changed (he couldn't tell when it changed) and now all non-French residents have to change to a French driving licence after one year. I asked him twice if it was because of the contravention and he said no, it was for everyone (hence he then quickly decided that I had to change my licence as well).So, is it true, Sunday Driver are you still around, I know you will know?If not true, anyone have a link to how I can dispute this at the lovely meeting at the gendamerie tomorrow.Just don't need this right now !!!!thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman II Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Suggest the attached two links which show no change in the law :http://www.permisdeconduire.gouv.fr/rubriques-transversales/conduite-a-linternational/conduire-en-france/http://www.permisdeconduire.gouv.fr/rubriques-transversales/conduite-a-linternational/echanger-son-permis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Sorry - I think one part of that was not clear- all french residents who are effectively foreigners and do not have a French driving licence - have to change to a French licence after one year of residency is what I meant.Sorry for confusion ....Grrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman II Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Sorry I read what you meant not what you wrote. Mr reading of the above is provided you hold a valid EEC license you can only only be forced to change to a French license if you incur French points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 thanks AntonI had a look at the links, and there is definitely a section which says if you have a non-european driving licence then you must change after a year. OH has a UK licence and I am wondering (being really nasty here!) if gendarme realises UK is in europe (!) the points thing I was aware of, but there were no points marked on the form and we never received anything regarding points, which I assume would have been required after the even.Besides which you can't get points by association (or I hope not!) so no reason for him to decide that I also must change.Off to see our neighbours now and show them the links also (they are very uppity ex Parisians) and will come with us to gendarmerie tomorrow and fight our cause.Thanks for response - I am fairly sure they have got wrong end of stick here, but hopefully we can sort out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 [quote user="londoneye"]There were no points indicated on the contravention. [/quote]It is the opposite way round in France ie you start with 12 points and you lose them if you misbehave.So, on your contravention, there would a small box which would say **perte de point(s)** and if you were to lose point(s) there would be a tick in the box. If you did not notice then this could be the reason why you have now had a visit from the police. Not stopping at a stop line carries a fine and the loss of 4 points (I think, SD will know for sure). As the plod cannot remove points from a UK licence this is why you have to change to a French one, after which the points can be taken off. You are given a certain amount of time to make the change; if you don't then they realise this and come knocking at your door to encourage you to change.I have no idea why the plod should think you have to change your licence too; only your OH. Who is the car registered to?Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Car is registered to me.But my French may not be great but it's good enough to know that he was saying quite clearly the law had changed and that everyone had to change licence.Of course you are right about the points, its probably me being not very articulate right now (a bit wound up about it tbh!) and I did realise that points were added in france rather than deducted.On the Avis de contravention there are two boxesone which says obligation to change licence which has been left empty and the otherretrait de points du permis de conduire which has a line through it - suppose it could be a tick but doesn't look like it.Are you saying therefore (and sorry belated thanks for your response) that because the car is registered to me I would get the points also ?Doesn't seem quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 [quote user="londoneye"]Car is registered to me.[/quote]Aahh! Then, in that case, unless you replied to the contravention saying that your husband was driving, not you, on that eventful occasion then you will lose the points as you are the registered keeper/owner. You cannot - IMVHO - both lose points for the same misdemeanour as that would be plain daft. As an aside I have heard that some police in remote areas are not very clued up about the UK being part of Europe and believing that you have to change your UK licence for a French one purely on the grounds your licence is in English.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Oh if that is the case he is anyway a 'Dead Man Walking'....Tbh we showed them his licence at the time and the carte gris so it all seems a bit strange. I guess tomorrow will sort it out one way or another but boy am I going to be mad if they make me change licence and not him !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Good luck ... and please let us know what happens. Just our luck that we live in a very touristy area and our police are very clued up !Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 [quote user="londoneye"]Tbh we showed them his licence at the time and the carte gris so it all seems a bit strange. [/quote]Not really for some rural plods, as they seem to be incapable of believing that women can own and drive cars. They automatically assume that any car belongs to the male.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 It's not so bad having a french license - at least you have it until death, not like UK where you have to keep renewing it every so often. It's easy enough to change.Similar story with us btw, London Eye.But I'm not sure about the new law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 LondoneyeContrary to what you were told by the gendarme, there has been no change to the code de la route concerning the recognition and validity in France of driving licences issued by another EU member state, so as you have not committed an offence resulting in a points penalty, there is no requirement for you to exchange your UK licence. On that basis, there is no call for you to attend the gendarmerie tomorrow. Of course, you can always go in tomorrow with a printout of the official Legifrance version of the relevant section and ask the officer in charge to explain why his man was trying to enforce a non-existant regulation.....Permis de conduire - Reconnaisances et équivalences Article R221-1As regards Sue's point about the registered owner not replying to a contravention, this only applies in the case of automatic radars where the identity of the driver is not known and doesn't result in any loss of points for the carte grise holder - only the fine. In your case, the PV was issued in your husband's name and handed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 [quote user="Sunday Driver"]As regards Sue's point about the registered owner not replying to a contravention, this only applies in the case of automatic radars where the identity of the driver is not known and doesn't result in any loss of points for the carte grise holder - only the fine. In your case, the PV was issued in your husband's name and handed to him. [/quote]See, I said we needed SD to pop up and make everything crystal clear ... at least I got this bit right !!Sue [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 thank you Sunday Driver - hate to sound sycophantic (not sure I can even spell it - several glasses of wine required tonight !) but I knew that you would know.I will print the link and go with Mr Stupid (OH) tomorrow and the neighbours in case my French is not up to the case and see what happens. I honestly didn't believe that, after 5 years here, I could have missed something like the law changing but you never know.thanks again, I will update tomorrow after the fateful event !K xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Suein57 -thanks also - the point about these forums is that you try to help people .. and you did, so thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Poor Londoneye, Good Luck for tomorrow!There is a bit of a silver lining though, I guess your OH will be on his best behaviour from now on......at least until it's all died down.In the meantime, cheers! Mine's a whisky and just ice cubes this evening....[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 thanks Sweet - actually he is no longer very contrite because it happened so long ago (I thought 6 months but when I checked paperwork actually it was last March - over a year ago!).Well, visit to gendarmes completed.We pointed out the fact that the box requiring licence to be exchanged was not ticked and also that there was no requirement for EU driving licence holders to change their licence after a year. Mr Plod was slightly embarrassed and admitted that they had had a meeting last night and taken on advice to clarify the situation (presumably prior to us turning up today).Yes, he agreed we were correct on both counts, there is no requrement for me to change my licence and they never knew (les flics) that they had to tick the box. Now they are going to tick the box everytime it's a foreigner (probably for tourists as well - that should be fun!!)Anyway we can apparently appeal to a tribunal if we so wish regarding the box not being ticked and therefore OH not being aware that he had to change his licence.But we are to attend the Mairie and change his licence to a French one anyway. I will search old posts on this issue as I am sure there is plenty of advice on here !!So, suppose it could have been worse.Sad that they just can't get it right though isn't it?Never mind. Thanks all and good weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 How very odd.They agree you are right in that the licence does not have to be changed but they are going to tick the licence change box anyway - bizarre or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Why can't they get it right? You would expect they should at least know the law! It's the hassle and worry that goes with things like this, it's never straight forward.We are also thinking of changing our licences as they will expire next year and at least the French licence is for life. There is a recent discussion HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 K, a word of fore-warning! My prefecture wanted an obscure piece of paper from my tax office (I forget its name off the top of my head) confirming that I had paid all my impots up to date. This is not a national requirement but it did mean an extra trip both to my tax office and then to my prefecture. So do make sure there aren't any bizarre rules like that where you are. The change takes a while (three months in my case because August fell just after my application went in) and you only have a piece of paper to prove you have a license while they are doing this which is not valid outside France, so do time things carefully.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 And take a photocopy of the license so that you at least have something to show someone.....Better still, if you are taking the paperwork in to the prefecture, get the clerk person to stamp the photocopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoneye Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 Hi Coops - ok ?Finally seen your piccie on facebook - not that I ever really go on there .... never seem to have the time - goodness knows why - just been sitting outside with stereo on number 45 (of 50) wondering why we want to leave - hey ho, swings and roundabouts.Err actually Mr Stupid has two UK licences (best not go there) so I suppose it's not the end of the world if he has to give one up and wait a while - meanwhile I can (although I hate it) do the driving if necessary. Thanks for the heads up though - really could do without this but am seriously considering now appealing at Tribunal (hopefully will get some advice from Sunday Driver at some point) if only to delay the process long enough for us to leave.Doesn't seem right after 13 months to be hauled in to change DL, when it was never indicated and the point regarding points (no pun intended) was somewhat obscure. Even herr flic today couldn't actually confirm whether he had given us points on the licence or not (he peered quite extensively at the inexplicable squiggle in the box).Ah well - the ability to play loud music (right now), the friends and neighbours (off to dinner with them in 10 minutes) I will miss, the bureaucracy (sp?) I will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 [quote user="londoneye"]Err actually Mr Stupid has two UK licences (best not go there)[/quote]Err, no he doesn't.Your OH's most recently issued UK licence automatically cancelled any and all previous ones rendering them utterly worthless.If he fraudulently offers up an old cancelled licence for exchange then in due course the Prefecture will return it to DVLA when the deceit will be revealed and he will be in far more serious trouble than a mere speeding fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 AO - there are other possible scenarios. Don't ask!Not our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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