wooden fencing

[Le_Jars]

Hello all, does anyone know where I can get a particular type of wooden

fencing? It's made up of what looks like small trees sliced down the

middle, so that one side is flat, the other curved as if it were a bare

trunk (without the bark). They are usually laid in two rows alternately

fixed above and below onto each vertical post. Does that make sense?

Many thanks!

[Wozza]

Le Jars,

I think that your best bet is to go to your local scierie and ask. Around here (16) fencing as you described is normally chestnut (chatenier) and is readily available from most scieries. Haven't a clue what its called in French, though!

Warren

[cooperlola]

If you are describing the kind of chestnut fence where the small pieces of wood are attached top and bottom by pieces of wire then the technical term for this in English is chestnut paling fence, which according to my dictionary is translated as "palis" in french.

If not, and what you are talking about is "post and rail" then the posts are "piquets" and the rails are "barres" or "lices"

I bought mine from

www.renault-equestre.com

, expensive but extremely high quality.

This page from their catalogue

http://www.renault-equestre.com/catalogue/clotures.html

should at least show you what you need to ask for locally.

[Chancer]

I used to buy all types of agricultural, horsie and rural fencing from Jacksons Fencing in Kent.

I am sure that the last time I saw a catalogue they had opened a branch in France, probably for the horsie types.

Try a google search.

[Chris Head]

I have about 1000 metres of fencing to replace in the next year or so. It's important to me how it looks and I need to keep costs as low as possible. In a past life I've done many thousands of metres of field fencing.

I'll be doing it all from coppice Sweet Chestnut and will source and take down the material myself. The real beauty of Sweet Chestnut as opposed to Oak for fencing is the very small amount of sapwood that Chestnut has which won't affect the long term structural integrity of a buried post, there are other things one can do to prolong the longevity of the post but that would be giving my trade secrets away!!!!

The rails will be 8-10cm and the posts about 15-18 cm.

Instead of nailing I'm going to use a tenon cutter and auger, it's an easy to use tool but the aesthetic results will be just wow.

http://www.bosworthtools.com/page/page/1818773.htm

I guess there are many of you out there who have rural properties and are worried about ruining your boundaries with naff fencing.

If I can help with a sort of step by step then please don't hesitate to contact me.

[Rodie]

Wow that tenon cutter looks cool ! i just bought 3rolls of 800mm stockfence to do ours(300m)  and was going to get the posts in france but Chris your fence is going to look kool  ps this is my first post ,we have just bought a barn(12x5) in the dordogne on 2 acres

[Chris Head]

Welcome aboard Rodie! Congratulations on your purchase.

All my timber will be sourced locally, it'll take you a bit of time to ferret out the local suppliers/farmers who'll help you out with timber but it's worth the effort of trying to get into the local swing of things, it'll open up all sorts of doors for you!

The tennon cutter can be used for all sorts, not just fencing.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Anyone for Cricket?]

Hi Chris

We want to do the same thing, I love the look of this type of fencing and whilst we probably won't end up with horses I still like the horsey look!  My question, we will have 20 acres of woodland, much of it sweet chesnut, have you or anyone else had experience of sourcing wood in you own garden and then having this cut to size, is this commonly done in France?

 

 

[cooperlola]

Chris no doubt knows more about this but in the UK where I was, there was a lot of chestnut woodland and the owners used to get it coppiced, and let the guys who did it have any wood they took out, in exchange for however many chestnut posts they themselves wanted.  A bit of mutual back-scratching.  Does this go on here?

[Chris Head]

Firstly, if I had 20 acres of woodland you'd never see me!

Your question raises lot's of questions of my own!

If it's your own woodland then play away jpe!

With that amount of acreage of woodland at your disposal you should easily be able to be self sufficient for a while to come. Obviously I don't know the maturity of the tree growth or how much fencing you propose to install but I'd be suprised if you weren't able to supply all of your fencing needs. Has the Sweet Chestnut been coppiced before? 

Do you have the inclination to do the work yourself?

Is the woodland accessible with 'rides' or tracks going through it?

Bear in mind that the moisture content of the trees is falling at the moment with the onset of winter and if possible you need to be planning ahead for next spring/summer during this winter, winter felled trees will 'move' alot less than spring/summer felled trees, and if firewood is the intended end use of the timber then winter felled stock takes less drying time....although it may well be that there's enough deadwood and windblow to keep you well supplied.

If you have projects planned where you could cut your costs by using your own timber then that again has to be thought of this winter, if access is OK the trees could be felled and sawn on site with a mobile sawmill...I do this quite often...(I have my own kiln)

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/chrishead/DSC00412.jpg[/IMG]

Am I jealous? Well, perhaps just the teeniest bit!

Hope that helps, fire away if you want any more info.

Good luck!

 

 

[Chris Head]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Chris no doubt knows more about this but in the UK where I was, there was a lot of chestnut woodland and the owners used to get it coppiced, and let the guys who did it have any wood they took out, in exchange for however many chestnut posts they themselves wanted.  A bit of mutual back-scratching.  Does this go on here?[/quote]

Oh crikey yes Cooperlola! Most common practice is 2/3 - 1/3...you fell and split and keep 2/3 and the owner keeps 1/3. It's an excellent way of sourcing timber for sawing for very little time and effort. I'm going to look at 7 hectare of Oak next week, it's not a clear fell but should yield plenty of timber for conversion. One just has to patient and ask around a little! My happiest times are spent in deep woodland crashing trees down and cooking over a fire!

[David]

Chris,

I may have this wrong, but I understood from French neighbours that around here the split is 1/3 to the visiting helper, and 2/3 to the tree owner, in all circumstances.

The particular circumstances of of my question to my French neighbours on this were that the tree owner (me) would himself be working at the felling, splitting, etc, he would supply the equipment, he will pay for an expert tree feller, hire a tractor, buy a 9 tonne log splitter (many euros), and provide the necessary victuals (perhaps curry and beer or pastis with lots of red wine).  The visitors, or neighbours, would come along to help, and to take away some wood for themselves.  One particular French neighbour is our salvation in all matters, he will probably do most of the work but he does not want any wood, just friendship.  We help him where we can so that is no problem.  He will probably be in charge of the operation, and he suggested 2/3 of the wood to me, and 1/3 to the other helpers.

I can see that a 1/3 to the tree owner, and 2/3 to the visitor would be fair if the tree owner took no part at all in the cutting process, but would you agree that the usual custom where the tree owner was working hard would be 2/3 to the tree owner?

Or would a 50/50 split be appropriate?

I just want to understand and get the local customs correct before we go ahead with our felling and splitting.  I will not be able to help much, but I will be around on my electric mobility scooter, and I may be able to work the log splitter.  My wife would be busy cutting and loading light branches to the trailer of my ride on lawnmower, so that I can haul them to the bonfire for my wife to unload.

Thanks,

David

[Dave&Olive]

hi

          chris

                         bit more of my equipment best €450 i`ve ever spent

            

                dave

               even the wife can use it

[Chris Head]

 Morning David,

You must be talking about a a fair amount of standing timber for your neighbours to want to go to all that trouble and expense!

I have to say my instinct is that your neighbours seem to be driving quite a hard bargain, clearly they're not equipped or able to carry out the task themselves and need to spend a fair amount to get the job done. Naturally they want to recoup a fair amount of the timber given their expense but I don't think you're coming out of this well. Unless you had previously been prepared to pay to have the work done, in which case you get the work done for nothing and get to keep some of the timber as well....only you know what is fair.

The 2/3 - 1/3 basis is set in stone here and it doesn't vary, although I often trade for chainsaw carving.

I think that you should proceed with caution, I'm not suggesting your neighbours are trying it on, but the country folk where I am are a canny lot. Go with your instinct and don't be coerced into something that neither you nor your wife feel comfortable with.

The best of luck!

Dave, they do save alot of work! My farmer neighbour has a great 18 tonne splitter that we use.

 

[Anyone for Cricket?]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the info, unfortunately we will not take ownership of the property until Feb so can't see the current owner allowing us to head on in and start felling!  There is quite a lot of wood around the place that has already been cut for use as firewood although I expect a great deal of that may walk off site before we get the final acte signed. 

As to whether it has been coppiced, that I do not know mainly because I have no idea what the term covers, there are lots of trees and some have been felled aside from that it's just a private piece of woodland attached to a small area of grassland where we will be renovating a small house on the edge of a 1 hectare lake.  There are tracks through the woods and one wideish track does come directly from the small road that runs aglongside the wood so it is accessable and as there is also a paddock area at the end of the track the type of sizeable equipment that you have could easily be accomodated.  I like the idea of doing it all onsite that would be perfect.

Do you do this kind of work for a living,  (alongside something more arty, just reread some old posts that you are 'an artiste' of the wood arts)?

[Patf]

We are in the Gers and for fencing most use the pseudo-acacia which grows like a weed around here. The parent tree sends out underground shoots and soon a new tree has sprouted up. They are quite pretty but very invasive. Interested to know the views of you experts on its durability etc. Husband has just bought 50 piquets, some whole and some split. Pat

[Chris Head]

No not really jpe, I wish I had the time, my background is forestry and tree surgery.

Seriously, I don't know what your knowledge or experience of chainsaws are, but if you've got that amount of woodland then it would be an excellent investment to learn the basics of felling a tree, crosscutting and maintaining a chainsaw. With a few basic skills you'd be maximising the resources available to you and minimising the outlay on professional services....I guess it's like that saying 'Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day...'

Pat, Acacia has excellent durability....a good idea before putting the posts into the ground is to burn the bottom of the posts,  burning removes the bark and sapwood that will host woodboring insects and increases the posts longevity.

[Anyone for Cricket?]

Hmm, my knowledge of chainsaws is limited to say the least, having spent years in IT and being a mere woman have not set me up well for such things.  OH is a little more handy with a power tool or two but great advice, I'll send him off for some training!

[mattjazz]

Sorry Cooperlola ,but the correct term for described fencing is chestnut "spiling" .Paling is just a general term for the act of applying pales.

[Chris Head]

Right matt...got that. I'm gonna beat it into meself tommorrow morning with a bit of chestnut!

[David]

Evening Chris,

Many thanks for your reply.  Sorry but I think my rambling post has caused some confusion, and I am not sure what you mean in your reply.

In short I understood that you originally said that for example when you go to cut someone elses timber, and they do not help, you keep 2/3 of the timber and they keep 1/3.  Is that correct?  That seems fair to me, and I can understand it being set in stone.

But I wonder if this case might be different to your professional approach?  In my case I own the timber, I will be spending all the money, I will be supplying the victuals, I will be helping as much as I can, and the neighbours are coming to help me because I cannot physically do the work myself.  They will not be spending any money, and only one will bring his own chain saw.  A sort of comunal effort.  In that case I thought that your percentage, of me only keeping 1/3 and the visitors taking 2/3, if that was the local custom here, would be unfair to me.

I have to spend the money even though we are only talking about three trees.  One fell recently, and the other two have now been declared unsafe.  When the biggest is felled, it will block the access to the house, so must be cleared quickly.  When we have all this help, it would only be sensible to clear the other two trees at the same time.

My close neighbours say that I should keep 2/3 and give my helpers 1/3, that being the local custom for a communal effort.  I have not yet discussed this with the people who are coming to help, but I do not want to upset the neighbours, who have all been very good to me.

I feel that, even if it the local custom is for me to keep 2/3, rather than for me to keep your suggested 1/3, this might be thought a bit harsh on the visiting assistance, some of whom are British and may not understand the local customs.

Thus I am caught between the local customs, and my best neighbour and friend (he is French), who wants me to keep 2/3, and the visiting assistants who may think the local custom is 2/3 to them.  Thus I wondered about 50/50.

I would very much appreciate your advice.

Thanks

David

 

[Chris Head]

David,

You're in a a position where you need remedial works to sort out your perception of a problem. The very fact that you're able to trade the works in return for the timber puts you 'quids' in. If you can get professional work done for nothing than I wouldn't even quibble at the terms. Just say yes and be thankful that you're not having to pay for the work!

[mattjazz]

Surely Birch is better for beating !

[cooperlola]

[quote user="mattjazz"]Sorry Cooperlola ,but the correct term for described fencing is chestnut "spiling" .Paling is just a general term for the act of applying pales.[/quote]

Sorry.  Perhaps it would have been better to have said "the thing to ask for is 'paling'?  I cannot find a French translation for "spilling" fencing in my dictionary, I'm afraid.

Interestingly, it is referred to as "cleft" fencing here

http://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pages/products/timber_prod_range.aspx?tc1=AR

at any rate, as mentioned above, the Jacksons site is very good for comparing the different types of fencing available.  But I reckon, looking at it again, that the original poster (way back when!) was actually referring to post and rail.