Gypsies

[Immokalee]

We have looked at a barn for sale. Everything looks perfect except for one thing.... there is a small gypsy site not far from the barn. I am informed that this should not be an issue like it is in the UK. I would appreciate any comments as I am completely in the dark with this.

[ali-cat]

Is your concern that you are wary about living so close to Gypsies?  If so - you may always feel uncomfortable with them there & spend your time expecting trouble or looking out for problems. 

If it's legal issue - i.e. regarding ownership of land - I'm afraid I don't know about Gypsies rights, except that they are treated the same as UK/Irish Gypsies under European Law - so if it is an issue in the UK, it may be an issue in France.  If it's the Immo or the seller telling you it won't be a problem - try to do a little investigating yourself.  There should be something on Google under European Gypsie Rights etc.

[cooperlola]

When we bought our last house in the UK (nearly 30 years ago now) the field next door belonged to a traveller and his wife.  They had settled down after long years of roaming and planted their caravan in this field, and had planning permission for it during his lifetime.  Our house had a couple of acres of land (seperated from our property by this gentleman's field) and was semi-detached, but because of the perceived notions of this chap, was very reasonably priced.

We bought it.  For over ten years we lived in perfect peace and harmony - looking out for one another's dogs when we were away, taking in deliveries etc - in other words, like any other couple of neighbours.  During this period, his daughter and grand-daughter also moved in onto the field, with another 'van.

Eventually, he sold the field as he had become too ill to look after the land, and sold it to a lady who lived in a large house, the far side of our semi. She put her horses in it.  Eventually, she persuaded the farmer to sell her the field directly behind the house as well.  Then she put an 8 foot high fence all around our property and prevented us from accessing our own paddock, in the way we had done for years with the previous owner, and blocking out completely, the beautiful view which we had had from our garden for years.

I'd have swapped the traveller for her, any day of the week!

[ali-cat]

Unfortunately, I have friends who's experience wasn't at all good - but I know where you're coming from.  You never really know if you'll end up with good neighbours or the neighbours from Hell. [6]

[Iceni]

[quote user="Immokalee"]... am informed that this should not be an issue like it is in the UK. ....[/quote]

"Should not" does not equal "will not" and whoever told you this is not taking any risk if wrong. I would not touch it with the proverbial pole but it's your money, your choice, your decision.

My father was cursed by a ****y and died within 30 years or so - I may be biased.

John

not

[Panda]

Hi

We were warned off of buying something that had a small travellers camp down the road.  The french immobilier, who I trust completely,said that it was not a good investment as the French consider it much as we would in the UK and that does effect the property value potential ongoing whether there are any issues with the people who live there or not. 

Panda

[Mikew]

Are they travelling or static gypsies on a permanant site, are they 'forains', market traders or fair people ? Our neighbours appear several times a year to sell things from white vans in markets, and they keep everything very tidy, The plot is mown regularly and trees have been planted. Very pleasant neighbours.

[Gemini_man]

[quote user="Immokalee"] there is a small gypsy site not far from the barn. I am informed that this should not be an issue.[/quote]

would this by any chance be the estate agent who informed you? or the seller?

you don't say where in France the barn is but be aware that a site can swell overnight when there is work in the area or even during holiday time and if you are not resident all year round would you consider your property to be safe?

I'm not anti gitanes but I would not be happy living near an encampment - and of course the other thing to consider is when you wanted to sell the house on, how would it impact on the sale prospect?

[Immokalee]

Thank you all for the feedback. To fill you in further the site looks to be a small static site but I take the comment that this could swell.

The barn is in the Loire region and the site is approx 2kms from the barn but there are no immediate neighbours to gauge the subject. It is the owner who has told us. Having said that he does not live there and has relied on another local who lives 1km from the site.  That siad again its third hand resay. 

[Loiseau]

I expect this is one of the sites that I believe all communes over a certain size has to provide, by law, for travellers.  Whenever I have seen such sites, they have (unsurprisingly) always been associated in the least desirable bits of the commune: alongside the railway line, next to the sewage farm, beside the town's by-pass etc.  So even if the gypsies themselves were not a problem, there might be other aspects of the environment that might be considered off-putting...  Or plans that might be in the pipeline for any of the aforesaid.

Personally, I wouldn't buy, but it's your decision...

Angela

[Blanche Neige]

"........ and of course the other thing to consider is when you wanted to sell the house on, how would it impact on the sale prospect?"

Gemini man has made an extremely valid point.

 

Location, location, location.

[WJT]

2 kilometres is a long way though. Would it really be a concern at that distance?

[Immokalee]

As I am new to this forum I'd like to say a big thank you for your comments. I know 2kms isn't that near and there are nearer neighbours to the site - it's very difficult to know what to do for best but you've all given us food for thought.  

[Panda]

Hi

I agree with WJT, 2km is a fair distance, I thought we were talking in the next field... Still not sure what I would do but the impact is surely limited at that distance?

[Immokalee]

I keep reminding myself that you have no guarantees what your neighbours will be like where ever you buy property.  You could have the grandest home in the town and a neighbour from hell (don't know if I'm trying to convince myself here!)  I think I will contact the local Town Hall and make some enquiries.

Ali-cat, can I ask what your friends experience was, was it concerning gypsies?

[Gemini_man]

2km isn't really that close to be honest - I expect many of us have a few gitanes withing a few kilometers truth be known

however, 2 questions which may be relevant:

how large is the site - 2 or 3 caravans or more?

how isolated is your barn and would you be living there permanently?

[MrCanary]

My house is in Indre et Loire and overlooks a gentle valley. On the far side, there is a 'stopping-off' site where gypsies can park up for a few days from time-to-time. It has always bothered me because my house is often unoccupied for two months at a time. But I have to say, we have never had a problem (touch wood). In fact, apart from seeing their caravan lights and getting whiffs of wood smoke, we don't really notice them. But I often wonder if our 'lack of bother' is that they know the retired local policeman lives next door to us...

However, in our nearby town of Loches, there is a permanent site for gypsies which is always occupied. My wife and I shop in Leclerc, just across the road from them and our experiences there have been somewhat different. We have witnessed their kids stealing and regularly pouring loose sweets out of their display unit onto the floor in the store. When we were there recently, in a brand new UK registered hire van, I popped into the store leaving my wife sitting in the vehicle. I came out to find the van surrounded by these people trying to persuade my somewhat nervous wife to sell it to them. Fortunately she had locked herself in and was relieved to see me returning. I joked with them (again, their kids were the worst) and I eventually climbed in, locked the doors and drove off waving to them. I got the feeling the stuff the kids were shouting at me was less than friendly...

Summing up my experiences, given the choice, I would not want the gypsy site near my house, but it is there and I have to live with it.

So, you pays your money etc., etc...

 

[ali-cat]

[quote user="Immokalee"]Ali-cat, can I ask what your friends experience was, was it concerning gypsies?[/quote]

The problems were with gypsies in Northern Ireland - where unfortunately "travellers" are a big problem.  For many years now gypsies have been responsible for a lot of trouble in NI & although I really do hate to tar people with the same brush - the amount of damage & destruction caused by them has given me a very bad opinion of gypsies.

My bother-in-law worked about 1km from a "camp" & had his car damaged, would arrive into work to see kids climbing through office windows & when they were eventually moved on, the council had to bring in a crew to remove the human excrement & waste that had been left. 

Around the same time at another "camp" there were about a dozen break-ins, in the local town - but they were gone the next day & nothing could be proved.

I would not imagine that you would face the same problems, especially is it's only one van & seems to be very settled - but I know that I would never buy something close to a gypsie site & would therefore worry about any future re-sale you may have.

[Immokalee]

OK, the site looked to be maybe 6 - 8 caravans.  Its a small concreted hardstanding area complete with washing on the line!  It did look tidy and we didn;t see rubbish around.  To answer the questions - there is an elderly couple just 20 mts away in a house this is the only other property and no we will not be living there so will go for periods being empty as we want a lock and leave .

Ali-Cat your frineds story sounds horrendous and pinpoints the difficulty we have - if the same were refelected in France then it would be a firm no....... all I have to do now is find out if it is.

[P]

If when the time comes to sell potential buyers are having the same thoughts as yourself then it will be hard to sell - plus the camp might have grown.

Personally, I think if you do buy this property you will always be worried - even more so if you will only be there occassionally. You will be sitting at home in the UK wondering and worrying if something has happened.

They may be perfectly ok and you have nothing to worry about but.........

Paul

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Immokalee"]

 if the same were refelected in France then it would be a firm no....... all I have to do now is find out if it is.

[/quote]

But how are you going to find out?

I may have missed your response but when Gemini_man asked who had told you everything was O K, but you didn't appear to answer. If you're going to ask the same people again and go by what they repeat then you've wasted your time in asking the question on here. [:P]

Your heart is telling you one thing and most people on here are telling you the opposite. Leave it alone. Back off!!!!!!!!!

[Beryl]

Immokalee

It may be your dream property, but unless your are after something really specific, and that ticks all the boxes (which it doesn't seem to hence this post) I would keep looking.

This is a lovely big country and I am sure you will find your dream property again and again if you need to.

[Framboise]

Our place has a small encampment opposite owned by another neighbour whose extended family live on site.   We have had no problems, indeed they have all, without exception, been courteous and kind to we "incomers", ie the daft b*****s who bought that wreck over the road!.  We don't anticipate any future worries on that score either.   There were originally about 5 caravans on site (growing to about ten over Christmas when more family visit of course), but over the past year two vans have gone to be replaced by the wooden chalets with enormous wooden front doors on them which is the natural progression of the  Romany way of life. The caravan-to chalet-to-bungalow is traditional, the latter being effectively caravans without wheels!

I guess the difference is that you have the Romany people and yer actual "do-as-yer-likeys", the former being the neighbours we have and the latter being the ASBO nightmares other correspondents have found.   You can usually tell what you have got by the state of the site itself because the Romany way keeps everything impeccably clean and tidy, fastidious to the point of fanaticism actually, and the others well you can but recoil in disgust at the thought.   Romany children are rarely the monsters described because family takes precedence and respect is something that has to be shown as done, otherwise Dad goes on the warpath Big Time!   Take it from me because I am a little more able to cast opinion on this subject..   My Grandad was a Romany of French descent.  He  bought the piece of land then started with the wooden chalet thing and built the bungalow my parents live in to this day, but even with his heritage he absolutely loathed what he called "That Lot" who gave the travelling community a bad name.   You will find no love lost between the two communities either.

Last week when driving through Caen up to the port we noticed several encampments that have suddenly sprung up, one group of perhaps five vans on the front yard of a bungalow beside the patisserie on the main road into Caen, and another massive site close to Intermarche.  Going by my own criteria on a fleeting glance as we passed I'd say these were Romany, chiefly because they were clean and set out in regimented rows, the kids playing happily outside on the grass.   I just wondered if there was a reason for the sudden influx into Caen, a big wedding perhaps or a festival?

    

[MrCanary]

[quote user="moya"]

Romany children are rarely the monsters described because family takes precedence and respect is something that has to be shown as done, otherwise Dad goes on the warpath Big Time!         [/quote]

Moya, whilst I obviously respect your viewpoint, I can assure you I have nothing to gain by describing the gypsy children in Loches the way I have done. They are rude, persistent and very cheeky - and my remarks are based on my personal observations. I do accept though, I cannot be sure they are genuine Romany children, but I am very sure about their behaviour.

[Framboise]

I quite understand.  After all, theres good and bad in all communities, in fact there are some children local to me here in leafy Surrey who are allegedly "posh" yet behave like alleycats as soon as Mummy & Daddy are out of sight.

Believe me, here in my neck of the woods we have illuminii from Chelsea Football Club abounding, we also have huge problems with the do-as-yer-likey variety and it makes ME angry!   I wouldn't trust them as far as I could chuck 'em with a pitchfork to be honest, (or the CFC bunch from previous experience!) but that saying there are equally sleazy types wherever you go or in whatever community.  

Speaking personally,  my hubby and I are happy with our escape route from wonderful Surrey and have some lovely new neighbours who keep watch over our house for us whilst we are away.    We have no worries on that score but perhaps we are the lucky ones?