crossy67 Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I am thinking of changing the boiler in our soon to be French house. At the moment it has an old looking oil fired boiler feeding about 7 rads. I am thinking of changing it to an old Rayburn type solid fuel heater that can heat the rads too. My thinking is it could be left lit 24/7, could heat the radiators and possible the hot water so we wouldn't need the immersion heater or use it just as a back up and for summer use. We could also use it for keeping water hot for drinks and cooking big pans of soups etc. I want to reduce my electricity usage as much as possible and I don't fancy the 75 cent/litre for oil. Any one have any idea how much oil the average central heating boiler would use? I was thinking 15 litres a day minimum but I may well be wrong. The house is a big 3 story 5 bedroomed house with little insulation (yet) in the south Charente.Thanks for any thoughts or advice.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Difficult to make a good comparison but I would have said that once insukated 15l/day would be very excessive. Our small well insulated barn uses about 3.5l/day but also uses electric for the hot water. Regarding your ideas of a rayburn type heater, I assume that this would be wood fuel since coal or coke seems to be difficult to find generally and almost impossible here. Wood is hard work*, and even though the brochures say other wise can be difficult to keep in overnight - in our experience at least. That does to some extent depend on the quality of the wood and also the location of the house, since the wind can act as a venturi and suck air through the fire, causing it to burn hotter and faster. * Even if you don't have to cut it or split it, you will need to stack it, keep it dry, make sure it is seasoned etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I just wanted to second Andy's observation about what hard work solid fuel can be. Having spent 20 years with the kind of system which you are thinking about in the UK, it is so nice to have electric c/h here which just turns itself on when the temperature drops to a pre-set level. We light the woodburner when we wish and listen to the rads switching off round the house as it warms up. I'd never have solid fuel c/h again and the older I get, the more I feel this way - especially now since my accident as I just cannot physically deal with the stuff and my o/h has to do all the stuff with the logs. Worth bearing in mind before you jetison the old system, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 How sensible you are, as always, Coops.We, too, are moving to a modern house with electric heating. What decided me to move is the sight of my poor OH looking cold in pyjamas and dressing gown, cleaning out the fires and lighting them of a cold winter's morning.OK, we could put in central heating, I suppose, but I just wanted less land and generally something easily manageable so that we can have more time in which to enjoy ourselves doing the things we want to do and not the things we have to do.PM in a mo for you, Coops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 The first comment I would make is the OP's statement that the solid fuel system he/she is considering employing is "Old".Thus inefficient.Next, I would suggest a search of this topic area: since this one has come up time and again.For hot water think Ballon: running on Heures Creuse.For CH: immediate choices are Oil, Gas, Electricity: wood; yes, however only if one is using a Gasification Boiler and a Thermal Store.And, finally, to abuse Conrad Hilton's famous statement: The most critical three aspects for planning central heating (Indeed, any sort of heating!) are:Insulation, Insulation and finally, Insulation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Sorry to "steal" the main thread but.....I am considering installing electric (matting) heating but surely this would mean up-rating considerably the KW. supplied to the house.......with the considerable increase in abonnement ( standing charge ) this would entail!Power consumption seems to be 100-150 watts per sq. metre of matting. On my , small (110 sq. m ), house this would mean11-16.5 KW.Add on 2.5 kw for the ballon, then all other electrical appliances, etc.Apart from the fact that not all the matting would be on full power all the time, am I missing something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossy67 Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 As I understand it you would struggle to get more than 9kwh on single phase. You could always get the mats to switch on at different times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broy Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 I'm setting up an all solid fuel setup. But if I already had an oil boiler theres no way I'd get rid of it. Think how usefull it would be on these winter mornings when you're ill or hungover and got no energy for lighting fires. Even if it is a bit uneffiicent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Trunk Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 crossy67, have you thought of a wood-pellet stove? We have one that drives 8 rads and radiates 2.5kw from its glass door. You load the hopper once a day and it's all computer controlled - and you get to see the flames burning. The French call them poeles à granulés de bois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Out of interest, ET, how much are you having to pay this year for pellets?And what is the gross output stated for your chaudiere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossy67 Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Are the pellets hard to get and how do they compare price wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 ET, could you expand on your post, ie what is the total heat output, pellet cost / kw, burn rate etc, it would be of considerable interest. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Trunk Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 The output is 24kw. Our living space is 160 sq metres. Press a button to start the stove, pellets are loaded from the hopper into the combustion chamber, a glo-plug ignites them and a fan increases the flames. The stove burns at the level you set; it has 5 levels, at the moment we are on level 1. You stop it by pressing the same button. You can buy pellets en vrac; we buy them in 15kg bags. The more you order the cheaper they are. I pay 4.30 a bag; you can buy them at bricos, but they're more expensive. The pellets are compressed sawdust, they create very little ash. It's more work than a gas or oil system, but it's greener. As with normal wood-burning stoves, you get back the tax you pay on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poolguy Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 As a recommendation, which I submit is valid for nearly any multifuel system, an accumulator tank is a tremendous addition, as it smoothes the heat cycles and gives the most out of your heat generation source. It also makes it plausible to add solar if you want DHW or even something more- free energy. Such Accumulators can be 300lt up to 5000lt or more and will over their life time which is virtually indefinite, give a lot to any heating system in control and efficiency.An Accumulator is a 'modern idea' it seems to many but that's not true, Accumulators have been used effectively for millennia particularly in Northern Europe. It’s just that nowadays house design has been minimalized without the thought of provision for these types of needs. Past generations have caused a great many buildings to be built with provision only for instantaneous heaters, which as catastrophic for energy use and therefore cost - but that wasn't a consideration when they were installed. So now, adapting a building for efficient energy use can sometimes be hard or even expensive but it is nevertheless worthwhile. Naturally it should always start with Insulation, and draft proofing.But for the choice of active heating system, no can refuse the obvious that our heating preferences have to change enmass. Oil burning systems are 'on the nose' in more ways that one, that is; continuing to install them from new is social unacceptable if there is an alternative and there certainly are many good alternatives. Anyone driven to analyse just the costs of these alternative will certainly see that 'whole of life cost' of a oil system is unsustainable - unless that is, one is mathematically challenged. Morally and practically there surely can be no arguments.Bu t to refocus, an accumulator makes sense which every system you employ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossy67 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Thanks for that, so on a typical mid winter week how long does 15kg of pellets last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Poolguy, past threads have fully supported your accumulator recommendation. It is certainly the way that I will be going. Mine will be "super-insulated" even though they come with their own built in insulation.The possibility of having solar input in addition to other heat inputs is a definite plus.The only question at this moment is 'what primary heat source?' I must admit to being quite keen on the pellet system, preferably with a pellet boiler, a tanker filled bulk hopper and an auto feed to the boiler hopper. I only need the dosh to do it!!!!!The log burning stove in the sitting room will remain for 'point-source' and effect.My CH calculations indicate a heat input of approx 14kw is required for the well insulated 180 m sqr property, plus DHW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossy67 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Oh, and how much would a pellet set up like this cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Finding definitive prices for pellet boilers is a bit difficult but I have estimated about 12k Euro but I may be wildly out on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I cant find the figures at the moment but a delivered bulk cost of E235 / tonne sticks in my mind, this would correlate with the 28.6 c / kg of the 15kg bags, being a bit cheaper in bulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Accumulators are more usually referred to these days as a "Thermal Store".Since this is precisely what they do.Biomass boilers are generally designed for "Short Burst: Very High Temperature" operation. This way they ensure all the fuel matter is consumed; and a majority of the gaseous by-product.That's why they are considered green.However, short bursts of heat energy don't cut it when dealing with a living space which demands ongoing heating, trickled out to combat ventilation losses, ingress and egress losses and heat loss from fabric. The last is obviously mitigated excellent thermal insulation.A constant level of heat energy is required, however, to maintain the living space ambient temperature at the desired optimal level.A thermal store in an essential component for "Short Burst" heat generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossy67 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 [quote user="powerdesal"]Finding definitive prices for pellet boilers is a bit difficult but I have estimated about 12k Euro but I may be wildly out on that[/quote]Holy s**t, that's one heck of a lot of insulation there and a big box of candles then lol.Just as a side note. If dry walling what would people recommend as a minimum thickness of insulation (Celotex for example)? One of the big problems we have is the loft space is also living space with two lovely bedrooms so no access to get insulation into. I am thinking of removing the roof tiles and batons, giving the roof a make over before it starts to go (there are a couple of areas that need slight attention) and installing the insulation from the top. Bit excessive I know but it would kill two birds with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Look guys, remember it's not everyday I pass on an opportunity like this; [:)]''world patent, no electrical, no moving parts, trouble free'' New Gravity-Feed-Wood-Pellet-Boiler-Hopper-Fed-Coal-Stove - £625 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Strange: it boasts no moving parts and no electrical parts and later admits it has a 100W blower.[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEO Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Hi crossy67,New boiler , new insulation throughout and, a new roof!I hope, you bought your house for buttons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 He hasn't even mentioned the FOSSE, Leo![;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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