Just a dream

[Goldfish]

Hi everyone,

May I start by wishing you all a very Happy 2008 wherever you may be.

My partner & I have been discussing over Christmas maybe in the next 18-24 months moving to France. Yes it's a dream, we're very nieve & have no clue where to start or even very much about France which is why we are taking a while to research and look into all aspects before making any finaal decisions.

We have 5 children, 2 dogs, 5 cats etc so we have to think about how it will affect all of us & if we could rehome our barn owl (not sure if he could travel over etc).

As of yet we have no ideas where we'd like to be although we're quite open at the moment.

I'm hoping you're all a friendly bunch :o) and can advise us on the pro's and con's of buying in France & making it our home. We've already looked into starting the kids on French courses (only home dvd's and roms at the moment) as we'd love them to be fluent if we move or not (and as the eldest is only 8 they'll soak it up - hopefully!)

I think we have the perfect fantasy in our head which I'm very aware is just a fantasy so I'm prepared for you all to burst my bubble but we're very happy to hear and advice etc you all have.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing from you

Regards

Nikki, Matt & The Tribe

[Cendrillon]

Good luck with your dreams, new year, new dreams and hopes, where would we be without them.[8-|]

It would seem that you already have a lot of responsibilities so think about the following points:

Career

Finance

Location

Education

Emergencies - if you have family in the U.K. consider the need for unplanned trips back to the U.K. to cope with any family problems, elderly rellies etc.

 

Bonne chance[:)]

[Ian]

Welcome to the forum Goldfish!

Regarding pros and cons ... mmm where do I start (scan around these forum pages for all sorts of polemic threads!)

You don't say where you are from, but France is much like any western European democracy and quality of life here is going to be similar to Italy, England, Ireland or Germany.  The big cities in other Eurpoean countries will be similar to Paris, Nice, Toulouse, Lille etc and small town chez vous will be similar to here.

In my opinion, the French lead the world in food and wine (if you are Italian or Californian you may disagree), the weather in Mediterranean France is better than Northern Europe, living costs in rural France can be significantly lower than UK, Ireland, Scandanavia, Switzerland (but if you are American then your dollars don't go anywhere near as far as they used to).  For me France combines modernity (fast internet, great hospitals, plenty of luxury if you want it) with a laid back pace of life (and traffic) that is lower stress than many.

The cons ... I would guess that if you are not a French speaker you will need to learn it as a priority. It will make finding work, friends and general enjoyment much easier.  Everything else that people grumble about is much the same the World over!

Best of luck and Happy New Year

[Lesley1952]

there are quite a few books out there finding a home in france, living and working in france etc I say life is what you make it anywhere so good luck !!!!

[lilly]

Hi and a Happy New Year to you too! Hold on to that dream, we did and are almost there! We bought some land a couple of years ago and are now having a house built, we should be ready to move in around April. In the last year we have been having French classes which have helped us  especially with our builder who only speaks French but we have a great agent who has helped us enormously.

You should look in to travelling to different areas this year and find an area that you like, we are  moving to the Charante area as we have friends there, and my husband can fly to Paris from Limoge as he works there during the week.

Happy hunting!

 

[Cendrillon]

French Property News magazine has some good articles on making the move........pros and cons.

[AnOther]

From what you've told us I think it's going to absolutely crucial that you and your partner are reasonably fluent in French from the outset.

Whilst you might have sufficient resources to see you through the initial period sooner rather than later you're going to have to get a job or jobs to earn a living (and get health cover) and if your French isn't up to scratch you will find it almost impossible to even get an interview. Then of course there is all the organising to get the kids into school etc which, without speaking French, could be very trying and frustrating.

For these reasons your choice of location would likely be better closer to a decent sized town than somewhere remote however appealing that idea might be.

I think you also need to critically examine your fantasy and motives for wanting to move and make sure they are not simply emotional. What is it in France that you think will sufficiently enrich your lives to warrant uprooting your family? You are, by your own admission, nieve and know little about the place but thankfully you also realise that it is just a fantasy - so far !

I'm not suggesting for a moment that it's the case for you but for those running away from problems then these can often have a nasty habit of following and resurfacing.

With your eldest only 8 it's the ideal time to make such a move as they are likely to integrate quite easily and I note you are talking about possibly moving in 18-24 months. Any longer than that and I would be starting to get a little concerned.

My final 3 words of advice:

Research

Research

Research

Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[Goldfish]

Thank you everyone

I did forget to put that we're in England - sorry.

Myself & the children & animals are in the West Midlands and my partner lives and workes in Somerset & joins us up here on weekends & holidays. We'd love to join him in Somerset but with the size of our family we just can't afford it.

We're taking our time to think it over and decide whether moving would benefit us all as a family. We're hoping it will give us the chance to all be together but it needs alot of thinking over & working out how things would work for us.

We'd like to stay north west (ish) France for easier access to get back home as the older children would come back to see their father & he'd come over to us for holidays. We're looking at a small town/large village maybe, something quieter than the large town we're in now but still with life and somewhere we could make friends and become involved.

I'm spending at least 2-3 hours a day reasearching property and area on the internet just to get a feel for things and I'm begining a folder with any useful tips etc so I have it all to hand when I need it.

I've always loved France & wanted to move but a mixture of excitement and terror is gripping me at the moment. I do feel truely unprepared to make a decision at the moment so I'll be popping in and out frequently with questions or for advice I'm sure. You'll all be sick of me in 6 months [:D]

Thank you for all your replies & please feel free to throw more advice at me

 

[Pads]

Goldfish what a great dream it is too, one I had for over 25 years first of all we never had the money then when we had the money I spent years trying to convince my england/ queen loving husband. In Feb 06 I was sat here booking our flights for yet another holiday in france while nattering to hubby, once they were booked he turned to me and said you'd better make some appointments with some estate agents as well. I was so gob smacked  I didnt know what he meant..... I just sat there my lips moving but no words coming out, but quickly did as he said before he changed his mind, I didnt really believe him and knew he would change his mind before the holiday ( in April/May) was over, but no we went, we saw, I conkered[:D] We were sat the night before putting our offer in looking at the photos of the place we liked trying to decide what offer to put in. ( Me still thinking he will change his mind by morning) when he turned to me and said dont think your getting anything else for your birthday ( which was the next week) when it kicked in he was serious, I felt sick with worry, if it all went wrong it would be my fault we would lose our lifes savings. within a week we had signed papers given over a lump sum of money and were legally tied to buy the house. when we walked out of the notaires office, I knew he wasnt going to back out it was to late an all the bluff Id told him about knowing what I was doing suddenly hit me , we went home , he went off to work and I was left at home to finish off the transaction. I quickerly found this forum and found the support answers and lots of new friends. As Im sure you will too, never feel any question is to silly to ask, ( you get a few rude people just pretend there not there) as most of us are friendly and remenber that dream, we will do any thing to help..............[:)]

Now the reality: We still love our house and village, but it hard to learn the language ( I know ) its expensive to run a second house , its hard not to be there when I want as I can only get 10 weeks a year off work. Its differcult to sort out simple things like bills ect when you dont know how they work and dont understand the language. BUT is it worth it . you bet it is ...... its my dream and now Im half living it, until I can convince hubby we can afford for me to give up work and move out there full time ( he works abroad anyhow ). the dog and I have passport and are ready to go.

I hope you fulfill your dream you only have one life , and wot a good expericence for the kids , even if it does go belly up................ No ones really hurt are they ??

Good luck to you [:)]                 

[nectarine]

gosh, Pads, that's a wonderful post!  Really honest and warts-n'all, but very encouraging.  I enjoyed reading it.

We owned a holiday home for ten years and, like Pads, were all gung-ho at the start but then, after the keys were handed to us, I had an "omigod eeeek!  what do I do now" moment.  But an evening class in French really gave me confidence and encouragement and I soon met neighbours and people who helped with advice and practical things and, within a short while, our holiday home wasn't as daunting.  And, ten years later, we've sold that and bought another and are moving out fulltime in the spring to live.

I think that you have the balance the dream with the practical aspects.  If you have the funds sorted out, or can find work or have enough to live on, then I would say "go for it because, if you don't,  it may be something you regret when you are older and perhaps the dream isn't possible any more. 

Don't worry too much about language - I have always found that making the effort to speak French brings out the best in people, who will help you along.  So go to those evening classes and get some phrases and words under your belt.  You will get more confidence in your French and if you make an effort to find French friends and mix with your neighbours, then you will surprised at how your French will improve in leaps and bounds.

Good luck, do your research and this forum is brilliant for experience and good advice. 

 

[Mme poivre]

I'm with Pads Goldfish  go with your dream

Like pads i was suprised and highly delighted when visiting friends who live in france for a two week holiday we ended up signing the com de vent for our house on my birthday, we had not intention of even looking at houses when went over there.  We have now had our house for four years and it is the best thing that we have ever done.   I love visiting when ever i can however my husband is not always so keen as yet although he loves it when he gets there.   I would love to be able to move over permenantly but am realistic in that at the moment we couldn't afford to support ourselves. 

If you can afford it take your kids and follow your dreams, at the end of the day we all only have one life to live, so go for it.

 

Judith

[Sprogster]

Goldfish,

The majority of posters on this forum are retirees or second home owners and therefore their choice of location in France comes down to just personal preference.

However, if you are going to have to earn a living in France then you don't have this luxury of choice and therefore the major influencing factor in chosing a location should be availability of work, as there is no point in settling in a remote rural location where there are very limited job opportunities for you or indeed the locals.

What you really need to investigate first is how realistically are you and your partners job skills exportable to France, as if you arrive there and cannot find employment you risk splitting your family further apart if your partner has to return to the UK to work. 

[Ian]

You can always work for yourself ... do the French have a word for entrepreneur? [;-)]

Can't find a job opportunity? Create one! Better still create lots!  Best of luck.

Generally seeking employment is a matter of common sense - are you an investment banker? Stick to Paris. Ski instructor? Try the Alps. I honestly don't think employment in France is really any harder to find than anywhere else - especially for the sort of people who do their research and have some get and and go like Mr and Mrs Goldfish.

(PS though I own "second homes" in France and the UK my "first home" is also here in France .. and I'm not retired yet.)

[Patf]

If your partner is going to continue to work in the UK and support you and the children financially, then perhaps you won't need to work. I doubt if you would have the time and energy anyway with 5 children under 8yrs. Have you researched health cover? This is a hot topic at the moment and I don't know how you would stand, if partner is working in the UK.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Patf"]If your partner is going to continue to work in the UK and support you and the children financially, then perhaps you won't need to work. I doubt if you would have the time and energy anyway with 5 children under 8yrs. Have you researched health cover? This is a hot topic at the moment and I don't know how you would stand, if partner is working in the UK.[/quote]I believe you would qualify for an E109 if your partner works in the UK.  Your best bet is to write to the Department for Work and Pensions - Centre for Non Residents, and check out your options, as part of your research.

The Pension Service:- Department for Work and Pensions International Pension Centre Tyneview Park Newcastle-upon-Tyne NE98  1BA Tel: 0191 225 8604

HM Revenue & Customs:- HM Revenue& Customs Benton Park Newcastle-upon-Tyne NE98 1ZZ Tel: 0191 225 8604

[Wilko]

It's great to have a dream and even better if you can fulfill it. I hope you can do so.

However the bottom line is money, the root of all evil. You will need enough capital to cover yourselves for one year minimum, but for two years to be comfortable.

Nothing will break your back like running out of funds before you are settled.

Tread gently and do your sums........then add 20% minimum.

Good luck

Wilko

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Wilko"]

Tread gently and do your sums........then add 20% minimum.

[/quote]

That is such good advice.

[Ian]

I second that! This forum at its best - Nice work Pads, Cooperlola and Wilko.

[plod]

Useful advice in many cases but I query two points made - firstly, "don't worry too much about learning French". I think the exact opposite, you must have a reasonable knowledge to be able to survive here. Secondly, "the cost of living in rural France can be significantly lower than the UK". Well, we are in rural France and I doubt that there is much difference in our bills, and with the pound plummetting against the euro, in effect, our bills are rising well above the rate of inflation. Good luck with your "fantasy". 

[AnOther]

I have to disagree I'm afraid.

I think the overwhelming concensus is that to stand any chance of finding work the ability to speak reasonably fluent French is crucial.

One other point which I admit I don't know the answer to is that of the issue of an E106 as there would almost certainly be an initial period of settling in before finding work for which health cover would be required.

It sounds as though Goldfish's partner will probably qualify for one but maybe not Goldfish herself and if not will her partners cover her ,and therefore the kids. In any case they would have to go through a pacte civil de solidarité or PACS in France would they not ?

 

[Deimos]

Regarding the learning French aspect.  Of course learning French is important.  However, you might find progress limited whilst in the UK.  Occasional lessons from e.g. a retired school teacher can help but don't expect to become fluent too quickly (nor get to understand the regular language/vocabulary).  Of course do it but do not be put off by your language limitations.

I never was any good at languages.  I tried to learn a bit before moving and what I learnt helped.  However, it is once I~ moved here that I made real progress.  Get out there, do things, meet people, don't be shy and use what language you have.  My French is still "limited" but it has been several years since i have taken a dictionary anywhere.  I am continually amazed at how good many French are at helping you speak better.  I find when talking, many will occasionally correct something you say without disrupting a conversation, without continually picking at every error you make - polite, helpful, etc.

I agree with the earlier comment made that it is using what you have and making the effort to speak French that is appreciated more than your level of fluency.

At the same time, do learn all you can before moving as it can only help (particularly if looking for work or starting your own business).

Everybody's circumstances are different so I would say it is important not to be put off by somebody else's bad experience.  France is not this amazingly fabulous country where nothing ever goes wrong.  Nor is is a living hell.  It is different for different people.  Personally I love it here - moving here is the best thing I ever did.  How it has worked for me has absolutely no bearing on how is might or might not work for you.

You will come across hurdles and "downsides" - so you have to think of ways round them of consider how important such aspects are to your life.  Do not be put of if people throw negativity in your way.

Ian

[Sunday Driver]

Sorry to disagree, Ian, but his language limitations will be a real obstacle.

He may be able to get by in a simple manual labouring job at the minimum wage, but if he's looking for any form of client facing position, he just won't get an interview if he doesn't write/speak French.  'Making the effort to speak French' counts for little when fluency is a business requirement.

If he is prepared to take low paid employment then fine, but with such a large family to support, he could well find himself back in the UK looking for better paid work - which defeats the original purpose of the move in bringing the family back together....

 

[Maricopa]

May I point out that (having reread their posts a few times) up to now the OP has said nothing of their own language skills, only that they would love their children to be fluent before they move out[8-)]

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Goldfish"]

...we're very nieve & have no clue where to start or even very much about France...

 [/quote]

But a reasonable assumption....?

 

 

[Deimos]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Sorry to disagree, Ian, but his language limitations will be a real obstacle.

[/quote]

Maybe if you read what I write you might see the 2nd sentence: "Of course learning French is important.".  But as you raise the issue, there are many successful British people working in France with limited language skills.

And where does the OP mention about finding employed work.  Probably true that the more limited your French the harder it would be to find an employer to take you on.  But there are loads of other possibilities.  But as I said before, everyone will have different experiences and some people create more and better opportunities than others.  A hermit in their 70's might find less than a highly social person in their 30's.

Even though my French is limited and even though I am not seeking work in France I have been offered it before (more than once and turned it all down).  When I started mentioning about the "inactif" issues to a social contact I was offered a job within an hour !!  That is not to say finding jobs is easy but it is not impossible.  For example, if they were plumbers they would have little trouble finding jobs as self-employed artisans, etc.  so much depends on circumstances

I have always felt that life is what you make of it.  There are hurdles and obstacles everywhere (UK, France, Belgium, etc., etc.).  What is important is how much you let such things hinder you.

Ian