Light switch

[John Brown]

I'm trying to find a Pull Cord Light Switch for the bathroom.

I've tried the usual places but there's no sign that they stock them.

The current light switch is inside the bathroom which seems a bit odd but maybe that's allowed here

Thanks John

[Théière]

The french as far as I know will not allow pull cord switches which is why you cannot find one.  The rules are now such that light switches must be in certain zones (volumes) as mentioned a number of times. If you have a light switch it should be located in the correct volume (volume 3, 60cm from bath/shower) doesn't include sink because the frogs are silly, or located outside the room completely.

[NickP]

[quote user="John Brown"]I'm trying to find a Pull Cord Light Switch for the bathroom.
I've tried the usual places but there's no sign that they stock them.

The current light switch is inside the bathroom which seems a bit odd but maybe that's allowed here

Thanks John
[/quote]

I looked for them and had no joy, when I asked  French electricians I just got a blanc look and the old "Garlic" shrug. It seems they can put ordinary switches in a bathroom but I was told that they zone the room, and a switch must be so many metres away from the bath/shower, when I asked why it was put close to the sink I was told the sink doesn't matter. The wonders of French regulations, they appear to change from artisan to artisan. I changed the switch myself to what I thought was a safe distance away from the sink, outside the door. i.e. far enough away so that small grandchildren can't wash their hands and turn on the light at the same time, whether it's right or wrong? it made sense to me. [:)]

Sorry Theiere I posted before I read your comment.

 

 

[Gyn_Paul]

It's not so much that the French regs don't allow a pull cord - there's nothing particularly unique about it as a switch, and the zones extend to the ceiling, so a switch on a wall is in the same zone as one mounted on the ceiling above it (but you will have a bit of a hunt trying to find one with a NF symbol on it). It's just that there's no point to it

It's really that the French regs take a different approach to bathrooms/safety/electricity than do the British ones. The British ban everything, then permit certain items provided you can't reach them (wall-mounted heaters for example) and go for earthing and earth bonding.

The French require all circuits to be protected by a Interrupteur Differentiel of no more than 30mA, and go down the unearthed, but double insulated route, along with the principle of zones of exclusion. So as long as the light switch is more than 60cms from a shower doorway, or a bath, and the circuit is suitably protected (in practice, there's little point in not protecting every circuit with a Int Diff of 30mA) it would be fine on a wall. Why would you bother messing about with the ceiling?

[John Brown]

Thanks for all the comments and help,

I wanted to change to a pull switch because it does not seem right that its possible I can put my right hand in the sink of water and switch the light on with my wet left hand.

 

I've been lowering the ceiling anyway so it means very little extra work. Moving the switch outside the bathroom involves a lot more work but never mind, just another job!

I've heard all the tales about " you can now, with modern electrics, cut through a cable with a pair of scissors while standing in a bowl of water and not be killed" but who would want to test that theory

John

[Chancer]

Admittedly not whilst standing in a bowl of water but I always test all my RCD's with a real life test, its just a momentary tingle, the anticipation is what makes you jump when it comes.

I have also tripped a 500ma disjoncteur de branchement without really feeling much but I use a resistor to test them.

 

[powerdesal]

Lets just hope that your 'real life test' never comes across a faulty RCD !!!!!!!!!!!!

[John Brown]

Chancer, you really are a "chancer" testing your electrics like that.

Many, many years ago my son got a toy that needed batteries to run it. It was a science kit to make a morse code buzzer

The batteries failed so he came up with the idea of using 2 pieces of wire pluged into a 3 pin switched socket to operate the toy

It sent him flying about 6 feet across the room at soon as he touched a bare bit of metal

He's very careful with electrics now

John

[Théière]

[quote user="Gyn_Paul"]It's not so much that the French regs don't allow a pull cord - there's nothing particularly unique about it as a switch, and the zones extend to the ceiling, so a switch on a wall is in the same zone as one mounted on the ceiling above it (but you will have a bit of a hunt trying to find one with a NF symbol on it). It's just that there's no point to it
It's really that the French regs take a different approach to bathrooms/safety/electricity than do the British ones. The British ban everything, then permit certain items provided you can't reach them (wall-mounted heaters for example) and go for earthing and earth bonding.
The French require all circuits to be protected by a Interrupteur Differentiel of no more than 30mA, and go down the unearthed, but double insulated route, along with the principle of zones of exclusion. So as long as the light switch is more than 60cms from a shower doorway, or a bath, and the circuit is suitably protected (in practice, there's little point in not protecting every circuit with a Int Diff of 30mA) it would be fine on a wall. Why would you bother messing about with the ceiling?
[/quote]

I have to disagree. 

The 17th regs are RCD's (Interupteur Differentiels) to all circuits. Low voltgage to be used in zone 1

The French use earths and earth bonding and ONLY permit low voltage fittings in volume 0,1 & 2.  Low voltgage transformers are also to be located in volume 3. Heaters can be used in volume 2 if they are double insulated class 2 or 3

[nomoss]

I have some surface-mounted Legrand pull-cord switches, which could be mounted high up on a bathroom wall. Ref. 0 860 19, 10A 250V.

http://docdif.fr.grpleg.com/general/legrand-fr/NP-FT-GT/F00119-00FR.PDF

 

 

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Théière"]

[quote user="Gyn_Paul"]It's not so much that the French regs don't allow a pull cord - there's nothing particularly unique about it as a switch, and the zones extend to the ceiling, so a switch on a wall is in the same zone as one mounted on the ceiling above it (but you will have a bit of a hunt trying to find one with a NF symbol on it). It's just that there's no point to it

It's really that the French regs take a different approach to bathrooms/safety/electricity than do the British ones. The British ban everything, then permit certain items provided you can't reach them (wall-mounted heaters for example) and go for earthing and earth bonding.

The French require all circuits to be protected by a Interrupteur Differentiel of no more than 30mA, and go down the unearthed, but double insulated route, along with the principle of zones of exclusion. So as long as the light switch is more than 60cms from a shower doorway, or a bath, and the circuit is suitably protected (in practice, there's little point in not protecting every circuit with a Int Diff of 30mA) it would be fine on a wall. Why would you bother messing about with the ceiling?

[/quote]

I have to disagree. 

The 17th regs are RCD's (Interupteur Differentiels) to all circuits. Low voltgage to be used in zone 1

The French use earths and earth bonding and ONLY permit low voltage fittings in volume 0,1 & 2.  Low voltage transformers are also to be located in volume 3. Heaters can be used in volume 2 if they are double insulated class 2 or 3

[/quote]

Théière,

I'm not entirely sure what you are disagreeing with.   I didn't say the French regs didn't require earth bonding (although the whole concept is becoming less and less relevant with plastic plumbing, plastic baths, plastic wastepipes, and plastic shower enclosures),  and - yes - the 17th regs call for RCD's of 500mA to the property (as a minimum) and 30mA to bathrooms. Items in zone 2 are double insulated, and so not earthed.... sockets are obviously earthed... zone 3 is beyond the regulations (i.e. +60cms to infinity).

which bit did you take issue with?

p

[Théière]

I am not really taking issue with any of it but posted to clear up the information as it had become muddled as is often the case on forums. Maybe disagree was a poor choice of phrase but somethings were not correct and others were misleading. 

The 17th edition calls for 30ma RCD's to all circuits not just bathrooms and preferably split boards with more than one RCD. You cannot ban everything and then permit certain items. There are rules on low voltage in zones and electric showers are permitted within reach.

"French sockets are obviously earthed" was not that obvious once you posted "The French require all circuits......and go down the un earthed but double insulated route"

 

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="nomoss"]

I have some surface-mounted Legrand pull-cord switches, which could be mounted high up on a bathroom wall. Ref. 0 860 19, 10A 250V.

http://docdif.fr.grpleg.com/general/legrand-fr/NP-FT-GT/F00119-00FR.PDF

[/quote]

I've never seen one of those before... and it makes me smile that the actual "pull cord" bit is an accessory

 

[nomoss]

[quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"][quote user="nomoss"]

I have some surface-mounted Legrand pull-cord switches, which could be mounted high up on a bathroom wall. Ref. 0 860 19, 10A 250V.

http://docdif.fr.grpleg.com/general/legrand-fr/NP-FT-GT/F00119-00FR.PDF

[/quote]

I've never seen one of those before... and it makes me smile that the actual "pull cord" bit is an accessory

[/quote]

 

No reason to be so amused at supposed French inadequacy. The switch comes with a pull cord. I know, as I have some. The accessory is simply a spare one.

 

 

 

 

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"][quote user="nomoss"]

I have some surface-mounted Legrand pull-cord switches, which could be mounted high up on a bathroom wall. Ref. 0 860 19, 10A 250V.

http://docdif.fr.grpleg.com/general/legrand-fr/NP-FT-GT/F00119-00FR.PDF

[/quote]

I've never seen one of those before... and it makes me smile that the actual "pull cord" bit is an accessory

[/quote]

No reason to be so amused at supposed French inadequacy. The switch comes with a pull cord. I know, as I have some. The accessory is simply a spare one.

[/quote]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood

[BIG MAC]

I never really thought about it but we have a couple of ancient ceramic / bakelite pullcord fittings formerly used above beds to switch the main lights in the roooms...I imagine they are 100 years old.

 

[Rabbie]

In Sweden it is standard practice to have light switches in side the bathroom - no cord pulls. I mentioned this when I first arrived in Sweden and they couldn't understand why you would need one. No reported accidents from this as far as I can find so perhaps the UK is erring on the side of caution against a virtually non existant risk.

[Théière]

Ah Sweden, I spent some of my happiest years there over a couple of months! Good things were triple glazing, heat pumps that actually worked at around zero deg and the bathrooms with a simple but effective heavy shower curtain that didn't get stuck to you with either static or air movement.

It isn't so much the possibility of water jet etc it's the possibility of condensation bridging the terminals and finding a route to you.  As Chancers says the RCD or equivalent should trip before you get a mere tingle but any device can go wrong and a pull cord should put some distance between you and power. The number of electrocutions in the UK is so low it makes you wonder why there are changes every year, well it makes most sparks very fed up and quite a few customers too. The thing is the regulators must have their annual salary and bonus's.  Who would be brave enough to do away with the idea of pull cords after all this time? just one event and all hell would break loose so I guess we will have them forever!

[Chancer]

I have probably posted this before, this was the powershower in Peruvian I think (might have been Bolivian) newly refurbished travellers hotel, the voltage was 240vac not the 110v of North America.

Now this one really did make my hair stand on end when the steam got up in the shower, the pipework wasnt earthed either as when I talked about it to other travellers they said that they couldnt even use the taps in their bathroom without wearing gloves [:-))]

[IMG]http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/jr7man/Electricity/DSCF0408.jpg[/IMG]

A shame they are not available in europe as they were great compact and very effective power-shower heads

[dave21478]

My old house had the main fuse box almost directly above the bath.

If the lights tripped, I didn't even have to get out the shower to re-set the breaker!

[allanb]

Théière wrote: "The French as far as I know will not allow pull cord switches which is why you cannot find one…"

I know nothing about the regulations, but Mr Bricolage stock them; I bought one recently for use in my garage, to operate a light fixed to a roof beam above the workbench.

As I don't know what they are called in French I asked for "un interrupteur à corde, comme dans une salle de bain" and the man found them straight away. He knew I was British; perhaps we are known for using bits of string in unusual ways.

Anyway, if what I did in my garage is illegal, I'm not sure whether I want to know. (Théière may recall from another recent thread that electricity is not my strong point.)

[Théière]

I think Nomoss and Gyn Paul covered it, when we had a French electrician round a few years back they said no such thing in France but with any tradesman if they don't get out much what do they really know?  That's the same anywhere, UK included, many a heated discussion because someone hasn't seen the thing so it doesn't exist, apparently and I come across this very frequently.

[John Brown]

Thanks for all the replies,

I'll have a look in Mr Bricolage and see if our local store ( 50km away ) has them

John

[Araucaria]

A friend nearby has a pull switch with a cord to operate his motorised garage doors. I think it makes it convenient for access when in the car. The switch is inside the garage: I have no idea whether there's a waterproof version for outside.

[sid]

Legrand do one  http://www.elecproshop.com/mecanismes/9845-interrupteur-a-tirage.html

The pull cord is extra!!  [:-))]

Apparently they're still used in hospitals etc.