Is an FD5 a FD5?

[BobDee]

Sounds a stupid question, but given the repeated references in this forum to the FD5 form, it is interesting to note that the FD5 form according to HMRC is this form HERE  which is actually a Company Claim form, note the FD5 reference at the top. The tax claim form for individuals is known only as "Form France Individual", no reference to FD5 appears anywhere on this form. (Latest version Aug 2007).

Quite bizarre that no real reference number is allocated to such an important document.

This may be nit picking but anyone making their first French tax return will find the whole process initially daunting and will take all the "sticky" FAQ's as absolute gospel.

 

[suein56]

[quote user="BobDee"]

Quite bizarre that no real reference number is allocated to such an important document.

[/quote]

Yes, I thought the same when I rang Newcastle or Nottingham , or wherever the office is located, the chap I spoke to referred to the FD5; and when I said the form I had downloaded from the gov site had no ref number on it he replied that they still called it an FD5 though now that referred to the form for companies and, as yet, the new form for individuals had no reference number.

Sue

[allanb]

[quote user="spg"]Yes, I thought the same when I rang Newcastle or Nottingham , or wherever the office is located, the chap I spoke to referred to the FD5; and when I said the form I had downloaded from the gov site had no ref number on it he replied that they still called it an FD5 though now that referred to the form for companies and, as yet, the new form for individuals had no reference number.[/quote]

I'm sure if that had happened in Ruritania, we would all have been saying "typical bloody Ruritanian bureaucracy!"

[suein56]

[quote user="allanb"] I'm sure if that had happened in Ruritania, we would all have been saying "typical bloody Ruritanian bureaucracy!" [/quote]

The part I found really amusing happened when I wanted a clarification of  the meaning of one of the questions on the individuals form and the (really nice) chap on the other end of the phone asked if I could read the question out to him as they only had copies of the old FD5 in front of them and, according to him, some of the questions had been rephrased for the new, numberless form, but, as yet, they had not been given copies of them. It was on the tip of my tongue to say they could download it for themselves from the gov site, as I had done, but I didn't - as he really had been very helpful. [Www]

Sue[:)]

[BobDee]

The French forms seem quite logical compared to the "FD5" or what ever its called. The form seems only to have a declared purpose of proving to the UK tax authority that you are actually tax resident in France. All the stuff about UK royalties, pensions etc., is all known to the UK tax police. Double stating it, is, I suppose, yet another check that you are playing the game. In the section at the end, "I Claim repayment of...", I have entered all the tax that I think I have had deducted since being in France, and hopefully that is what I will get back.

On another related point, I received a P810(T) (Tax review form), from Liverpool HMRC. I 'phoned the Liverpool number as the form says you can telephone in any changes to your tax status, and the very helpful man at t'other end of line said he had never heard of such a form, but would annotate my record to show that I had  telephoned in a no change status.

Who do they employ these days? Makes you feel really warm about the running of the old country.

As I type, one of our cats has just puked up on my desk, narrowly missing the "FD5". As least someone knows what they are doing!

[lorna]

Coincidentally, I had just this morning got out my FD5 and P85 forms which I had requested from HMRC after reading the posts on this forum. I had received them a while ago but just tucked them away. Now that my husband is busy filliing in our first tax return I finally got the forms out to complete and was immediately puzzled by the title and company references on the FD5 form. Thinking I must have asked for the wrong form I have just logged in and done a search on FD5 and of course found this post! Looks like I'll have to download the correct form and get a move on or I'm going to be in trouble with my OH - probably already am

[mint]

[quote user="BobDee"]

As I type, one of cats has just puked up on my desk, narrowly missing the "FD5". As least someone knows what they are doing!

[/quote]

This has convinced me, if I needed convincing at all, that cats have superior intelligence to almost all other animals.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="BobDee"]

As I type, one of cats has just puked up on my desk, narrowly missing the "FD5". As least someone knows what they are doing!

[/quote]

This has convinced me, if I needed convincing at all, that cats have superior intelligence to almost all other animals.

[/quote]

Obviously not that superior - it missed (albeit narrowly pp BobDee's post)

[mint]

You've got a point.  Plus, he had to clean up his desk and still fill in the form!

[cruddler]

Do you still need to fill in an FD5 if you have already been removed from the UK Tax System?

After some delay I have eventually been issued a NT Tax Code by the UK and my Tax Office insists that once I receive my P60, my tax for the last tax year will automatically be refunded. They had never heard of an FD5 and didnt see that it was necessary

[gosub]

If you don't need to claim a tax refund from the UK, then you won't need to use an FD5 to reclaim any tax taken at source.

[cruddler]

But I do need to claim a Tax refund from the UK. They have been taxing me for the last 7 Months on PAYE while they have been losing and then processing my P85 application. Now that my NT Tax code has been issued, they say that the refund will be done once my P60 is issued which suggests no need for me to submit the FD5 but I dont want to get off on the wrong foot with my new taxers (?!)

[Benjamin]

[quote user="cruddler"]

Do you still need to fill in an FD5 if you have already been removed from the UK Tax System?

After some delay I have eventually been issued a NT Tax Code by the UK and my Tax Office insists that once I receive my P60, my tax for the last tax year will automatically be refunded. They had never heard of an FD5 and didnt see that it was necessary

[/quote]

So you're not actually out of the UK tax system yet. [:P]

If you've got the name/rank/number/inside leg measurement/bra size(delete as appropriate) of the person who promised your refund then it's pointless filling in an FD5.

It used to be possible if you were working abroad for a UK company, to declare yourself non-resident to the UK tax system and have wages etc paid gross but then not declare yourself tax resident in the country where you were working. The FD 5 effectively stops this happening.

If the person who promised you the refund accepts what you're telling them without proof that you're in the French tax system, then you're home and dry.

The reason a "normal" tax office would not know what an FD5 is, is because after leaving the French system they are channelled to HMRC Centre for Non-Residents and not back to your current tax office.

Will you come back and let the forum know if your tax refund does come through without any further prompting from you?

[cruddler]

I have effectively proved that I am in the French Tax system via the ardous processing of my P85. It was they that decided that I was to be taxed wholly by France and that I warranted being removed from the UK Tax System. Everytime I speak to them they say they say that I will be due a refund....perhaps I should have got names and address tho [:(]
And yes of course, I will report back although I am awaiting a UK self assesment form apparently so would guess that its completion counts as further prompting

[AnOther]

As a holder of a so called 'workers E106', issued by HMRC, is this not de-facto evidence that I am no longer UK resident ?

If so what need should there be for an FD5 ?

 

[Benjamin]

[quote user="cruddler"]

       although I am awaiting a UK self assesment form apparently so would guess that its completion counts as further prompting[/quote]

You're drip feeding bits to us here cruddler.  [:D]

Yes, the completion of a UK self assessment form will effectively do this for you and I suspect nothing will happen, irrespective of what you may have been told, until that is processed.

The self assessment form can be a useful way of getting tax back if you receive an unexpected taxed item of income in the UK after you are already into the French system (although off the top of my head I can't think of a real circumstance where this might happen).

Best of luck and don't hold your breath as others have found out.

[Benjamin]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

As a holder of a so called 'workers E106', issued by HMRC, is this not de-facto evidence that I am no longer UK resident ?

If so what need should there be for an FD5 ?

 

[/quote]

Sorry Ernie Y I don't know much about E forms so I can't comment on this one.

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="ErnieY"]

As a holder of a so called 'workers E106', issued by HMRC, is this not de-facto evidence that I am no longer UK resident ?

If so what need should there be for an FD5 ?

 

[/quote]

Sorry Ernie Y I don't know much about E forms so I can't comment on this one.

[/quote]

Thinking about your earlier query Ernie the fact that you're known to HMRC because of your E106 so you're not trying to evade payment of tax then you effectively satisfy their criteria and the following bit lifted from my earlier thread...

"It used to be possible if you were working abroad for a

UK company, to declare yourself non-resident to the UK tax system and

have wages etc paid gross but then not declare yourself tax resident in

the country where you were working. The FD 5 effectively stops this

happening."

............is effectively satisfied. So; yes, on the face of it an FD5 wouldn't do a lot but then again tax treatment when working offshore is an area completely unknown to most of us on the forum.

[BobDee]

Remember the original point of this posting. FD5 is not the form to use for individual declarations. FD5 is a Company declaration form. The HMRC havnt  got around to givng the "FORM FRANCE INDIVIDUAL" an actual number.

This is why tax office folk get more confused that usual when people keep talking about the FD5.

BobD

Having posted my words of wisdom.. I have just found a 2003 version of the above form and it is labeled FD5.

The latest ones are devoid of any number and if you try and download a "FD5" from the HMRC website, you get the "Company" version.

Its good to know our finances are in such capable hands.

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Benjamin"]tax treatment when working offshore is an area completely unknown to most of us on the forum.[/quote]Quite so but the truth is it's stunningly simple:

If you work for a UK employer in the UK sector you pay UK tax, that's it and that's me.

Having worked abroad quite extensively I've witnessed first hand the horrible mess some people have got themselves into by being 'clever', just disappearing from UK and being paid in local currency. Sooner or later the piper had to be paid and for one or two it was a near bankrupting experience [:'(]

 

[Benjamin]

[quote user="BobDee"]

Remember the original point of this posting. FD5 is not the form to use for individual declarations. FD5 is a Company declaration form. The HMRC havnt  got around to givng the "FORM FRANCE INDIVIDUAL" an actual number.

This is why tax office folk get more confused that usual when people keep talking about the FD5.

BobD

Having posted my words of wisdom.. I have just found a 2003 version of the above form and it is labeled FD5.

The latest ones are devoid of any number and if you try and download a "FD5" from the HMRC website, you get the "Company" version.

Its good to know our finances are in such capable hands.

 

[/quote]

Your're quite right BobDee. Sorry old habits die hard.

[Sunday Driver]

The Form FD5 has always been the recognised name of the tax reclaim form, either in France/Company or France/Individual format.  My own form (obtained in 2005) is entitled France/Individual and has the reference FD5 beneath it.

The latest forms on the HMRC website are identical to the earlier ones, but whilst the France/Company form retains the reference FD5, the France/Individual form no longer includes it.  I don't know the reason for the omission - perhaps we should get a petition up to ask HMRC for some administrative consistency.....[;-)]

In any case, the link in the Tax FAQ takes you straight to the correct form.

Benjamin commented that a normal tax office may not recognise the term FD5 because it's used by the Centre for Non-Residents.  The actual correct process for moving tax jurisdiction is to submit a P85 to your tax office certifying that you are moving abroad.  Your tax file is then tranferred to the CNR who then handle the funny foreign bits, including sending you an FD5 - sorry, of course, I meant a France/Individual........oh, never mind, at least they know what an FD5 is.

 

[David]

I am a little confused about the FD5 and it's use, so I would be grateful for some advice.

We are full time residents in France, but we still have one UK bank account which insists on deducting UK tax on interest at the basic rate.  We keep this account for sterling receipts and payments, and do not wish to close it, so we have to reclaim the UK tax each year as we pay French tax on the interest.

In our first French tax year (2005 income) we completed the FD5 and handed it in with our annual French tax forms.  The local Bressuire office stamped it and asked us to send it to Paris, which we did.  Several months later we received the UK tax repayment by cheque.

In our second French tax year we handed it in with the annual French tax forms, but this time the Bressuire office kept the FD5 and said they would forward it to Paris.  This was a copy of the same form we sent the year previously (but different tax amounts) and was marked FD5.  We have not received any UK tax repayment for that year.

We are about to complete our third annual French tax return, so what should we do about reclaiming the UK tax paid on bank interest?

We were not too bothered last year as the amounts were quite small, but this year is more important due to financial constraints.

Many thanks in advance.

David

[BobDee]

David, as far I understand the situation, and there are certainly others on this forum with greater knowledge of these matter than yours truly, the act of submitting an FD5 does not in itself stop UK tax being deducted from interest bearing accounts.

It is up to you to request that your bank/building society, pays your interest gross, i.e, no tax deducted. Various banks etc might well have their own forms for gross interest payments,  that you have to request. In most cases they will not act on this request without checking with HMRC, and HMRC will check that they have an FD5 duly stamped by the french impots in your name.

Sounds highly circuitous, but thats how it seems to work. You should not have to submit an FD5 every year.

BobD

 

[David]

Thanks BobD,

Tried that but the UK bank (not the tax people) refused, and insisted that they deduct the UK tax.  They invited me to transfer to one of their offshore accounts if I wanted interest paid gross, but that did not have a credit card or cheque facility.

As we now do not have a UK address we cannot open a new account with another bank.

Thanks,

David