British in France

[Coco]

And I believe you're a fellow Manchois aren't you Dick?  It clearly depends on the areas and this is an area that has been designated as poor and needing to be brought up to the same levels as other areas - Although with current house prices you wouldn't believe it!!!

[Teamedup]

I don't actually care if you have a go at me, no problem.

 

When people  buy here it is usually a holiday home or to live here and the latter often done with cash. Their choice, so why shouldn't they be resposible for their own repairs, maintenance and improvements. Exactly what does the french population owe any of us, we are not french, haven't lived as the french do or really have to live as the french live really, especially if anyone can come here with cash to purchase something........ all treated equally in the EU, that is nonsense. The reality is that generally wages are lousy here. It is very hard for a lot of folks to pay their rent, never mind even considering buying.

And then we get to artisans over charging. Artisans here are not well off, they usually work hard and half of their income one way or another goes to the government, especially if they employ someone.

Been here a long time. Well it didn't take me that long to work out how things are. And that for all we struggled as it was very expensive when we got here, we were still miles better off than most of the population. I am priviledged.

Grants, well there are rented properties in this village that still don't have a bathroom, that is where they should be going.

 

I'm going to see a friend now, I'll post later as to what she has to say about this. She is ofcourse french.

 

 

[Patf]

We had a letter from the Mairie saying that there are limited funds, as grants, available for such improvements as a new roof and fosse septique . This is a very impoverished and primitive area, so I don't know how some people will be able to keep to the regulations without a grant. Ours is a newish house and we HOPE ours is ok. These grants are means-tested. Pat.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Just thinking out loud,why would the marie "push" a grant on a none french resident among others,after all nothing would go back to the marie surely,not in france.

 

[Russethouse]

Oh come on - Coco lives in a tourist area, her visitors spend money in shops, restaurants and with her. That is called income which is then taxed.
It all makes work - thats a good thing.

I'm sorry but I believe these grants come from funds that work in a similar way to UK pensions for instance - in other words there is not a big pot with all the money French tax payers have ever paid in, it comes out of current contributions, Coco contributes so she is just as entitled - that is what being part of the EU means, sorry if you don't like it TU.
If there is substandard housing in your village then perhaps you need to ask some searching questions of your elected representative and draw his attention to the fact that other regions are doing better in this regard.
I wouldn't expect you to turn down a grant to improve property when you return to the UK either.

[Coco]

I presume that those of you who have lived in France for a short or a long time and have children, claim child allowance.  Isn't that a "grant" for having children.  After all, it was your choice to have them - why should everyone else pay for them.  And before I get pounced on, I have no objection to child allowance; I'm just using it as an example.  And that payment in particular, is to the people, when they go they have left nothing behind them.  As John pointed out, the grants for property improvement are for the property and not the people.

There are also grants at various levels:  EU, national, departemental, designated areas within departements.  If one area has a grant available to improve tourism then it is because it has determined that that is what is beneficial to its particular area.  If there are impoverished areas in other parts of France then maybe there are grants to create bathrooms etc, and if there aren't perhaps you should complain to your local conseil and not have a go at people who happen to live in an area that has different priorities.

And as for non-French not being entitled to grants - well just how RACIST is that comment?  If every non-British person in the UK who has been given money over the years had to hand it back the UK would be able to solve all its financial problems overnight.  This attitude that all Brits who have moved to France are privaleged and wealthy is B******t!  I'm not pleading poverty, I wasn't even ASKING for a grant - but I have been paying French tax on my income, which as TU points out, in France is a lot lower than in the UK.  The grant will be given on assessment of my 2003 tax return - if I earned too much I presume I won't get it - if I didn't (and I know I didn't) then I may be entitled.  And if I am, then why the hell shouldn't I have it?

And as for the Maire "pushing" a grant at a non-resident - well I am resident or I wouldn't have been paying French tax.  As far as our Maire is concerned, she is delighted that we have brought a Cambres d'Hotes to the village - I don't quite understand why, as we don't have any shops here even for other locals to benefit from - but there you go!

And TU - I don't really care what your French friend thinks about it.  It's French people here that are encouraging me to go for it.

[racey]

It was a simple question which rec'd a useful response, it now appears to have gone off subject and degenerated.

[Russethouse]

I wouldn't call it degenerated - off topic ? Probably, but that's not uncommon. We are in 'heated debate' mode now !

[Furry Knickers]

I am so frightened of the hares in our garden!

[Coco]

I don't think it's degenerated (certainly not by past records on here!!) differing views or interpretations of things don't equate to degeneration, just lively debate; and although off the original topic, it's still relevant under the title of the topic!!

[Fritz]

“Quote:

On a more serious note, and as someone who has been a 'guest' in various countries (I'm maltese and have lived in UK/France and Germany), I think it's important to integrate wherever you go, and I always consider myself a guest. If French men wore skirts, and that's not something us Maltese men usually do, then I believe that as a guest I should wear a skirt too. A stupid example, but hopefully it makes my point. As I guest, I should abide by all the customs and traditions of the host country. If I don't like it, I can always leave. I have no problem with legal immigrants (I am one myself), but I do have a problem with those that expect to have a little part of their own country wherever they go.”

 

There’s a lot of talk in this thread about ‘integration’ but I’m not sure what exactly it means. Does it mean, for instance, that if you live in Spain and didn’t like bull-fighting, then you shouldn’t voice your opinion in the local bar? Or if in France you didn’t approve of force-feeding geese with corn, then you shouldn’t complain or try and persuade the locals its a pretty gruesome thing to do?

You could take this argument a step further – living in Saudi Arabia and going with your neighbours to the stoning of a woman accused of adultery, because it’s tradition. Or in Berlin in the 1930’s accusing your Jewish neighbour of anti-German behaviour because it’s the local culture.

A bit extreme I accept but these days the whole point of the EU is that any EU national (more or less) can choose to live anywhere within the EU and providing you keep to the law of the land you should be able to buy 20 houses if you want to or can afford to and voice your opinions on anything. Freedom of choice and freedom of speech, I believe it is called.

[Coco]

Well said Fritz!!!!  I also believe integration is taking the good with the bad.  And sorry to harp on about grants, but if I paid the extortionate amount in cotisations (which I have had to do) and smaller amount in tax, both of which I am happy to do because I want to integrate, or be a "part of the local community" then surely it would seem a little odd to the locals (and could be perceived as patronising) if I paid in my full whack along with them but then said, "oh no, you all have the grants, I don't need them - I'm a wealthy (huh) Brit.  You need them much more than me."   And I would for ever remain the outsider.  See my point?

[racey]

OK - not degenerated but off topic. Still the response related to my question was useful - thanks.

Let your debate continue but 'be nice'.

[Phweephwoo]

[quote]I think it is scandalous that you move to another country where you are fortunate enough to have a second home, then after making a killing on your UK property expect the government then to subsidise ...[/quote]

 Well as has been pointed out already here Chuck, these grants are MEANS TESTED so if you're a wealthy second home owner you're not going to get a grant. There are however some grants available for restoring historically significant buildings, and if you happen to be the owner of one onf these then why shouldn't you get a grant, no matter what your nationality.

Remember as a European, you've been paying your taxes in your country of origin for years. Part of those go to the European Union, which then comes back to France in the form of grants and subsidies. I dare say every British taxpayer could say that they've been indirectly paying to support your local farmer's set aside.

It's the same argument when we hear the argument of Brits coming and using the French Helath Service for free. There is a European-wide agreement which allows for the transfer of funds between member states to pay for their own nationals' healthcare. In practise apparently this is rarely applied as the numbers of foreign nationals in the different member states usually balances out. In fact as it's said there are more French nationals living in Britain.....

Anyway I think it's time for this storm in a teacup to blow over. It's bad enough to have a tiny minority of Breton feeling animosity towards Brits. If we start hating each other, where will we get?

Off to watch France 2 now, to see if they've misquoted me as badly as the Daily Telegraph.

[Scarlett]

I totally agree!

If french people can get grants in GB, the reverse should happen.

FIN

[Russethouse]

>>then after making a killing on your UK property expect the government then to subsidise your costs with grants that could be used to help the truly needy of which there are plenty in France.<<<

I suspect you are in 'wooden spoon' mode, but if you are not please read Cocos post - the grant was offered, NOT expected.

Yes, there are truly needy in France and a) its up to you to complain to your elected Representative if you think there is unfairness and b)the extra income to Coco, and other businesses who profit from tourists may well go toward helping the 'needy'

[Furry Knickers]

Hi FIN

That was the name of me pet carp!

He was a lovely orange with white and black patches, very lovely indeed. He lived outside in a pond with Fergal and Sharkey me other 2 pet carp, they all were taken away from me by a massive Herron with a 6 foot wing span in a dull grey colour. If I ever catch him I will give him such a telling off. I have pictures of them to remember them, which I am willing to share with all of you.

When I get my Dolphin, I shall call him Fin too!

 

[Furry Knickers]

 

What do you mean by "wooden spoon mode" if you don't mind me asking? Me Mammy always used a wooden spoon for stiring the Christmas puddin and her wonderful fruity scones. Her scones were that good that visitors would rob them and one cousin used to hide them down her underpants because she knew we would not want to retrieve them, let alone eat them.

 

 

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

P......o,brits using the french health system for free,have you had a bump on the head?please do tell how to use it for free,We are in the french system

[Dick Smith]

"Just thinking out loud,why would the marie "push" a grant on a none french resident among others,after all nothing would go back to the marie surely,not in france"

none French? I presume that's me, non-French. I don't know marie, I spoke to M. le Maire. Read my post, it wasn't the maire it was the regional council. No wonder you go off all over the place.

To answer Coco's sensible question I heard some time ago that it was Mortain's 'turn' to get improved water and sewage - they have built a new sewage works etc. I assume that they are helping people get away from well water (a lot of which is now affected by contamination of the water table due to intensive farming). In fact I didn't even know we had got a grant, and was quite prepared to pay the full amount, but when I called to find out the reason for a delay I was told that the cheque from the region hadn't arrived yet. First I had heard of it, I just thought that the estimate was good value. And of course it being France everyone just said 'good luck'.

[Dick Smith]

"Her scones were that good that visitors would rob them"

You mean that people stole things from scones? What do scones own that are worth stealing?

[Phweephwoo]

[quote]P......o,brits using the french health system for free,have you had a bump on the head?please do tell how to use it for free,We are in the french system[/quote]

Ah well I didn't say we did, I just said there are those who say we do.

And coco, do you want to stir up trouble? Almost certainly this grant was for the development of tourism in deprived rural areas. As such anyone providing this would be entitled to it no matter what their nationality. No doubt also this money was ring-fenced and could not be used to install a loo in some old house. If you have a problem with this you should no doubt right to the government to protest at their use of tax-payers money to help the development of tourism, and not to the local mayor.

Off for a drive in the famous car now.

[Phweephwoo]

[quote]P......o,brits using the french health system for free,have you had a bump on the head?please do tell how to use it for free,We are in the french system[/quote]

And why does my name appear to come out as a bunch of full stops with a P and an o at each end?

See how concerned I am about the really important issues in life.

[Russethouse]

>>You say "it was offered and not asked for" did she accept? it or did her conscience prevent her from taking someone else's hard earned cash?<<<

Why should her conscience be troubled? Coco is a French and European tax payer.

No doubt many of us in the UK could afford private prescriptions for our health-care, but we don't let our conscience stop us taking a NHS prescription, or do you ?

Let le Maire know what and who the grant is designed for - thats their job !

You don't need Cocos representative, tell yours !

[Phweephwoo]

For a balanced report on the situation in Bourbriac today I refer you all to today's Guardian, available online at  http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1423894,00.html