MAKING THE MOVE

[wigblue]

First time user on the forum scene so please be gental

  Myself my partner and our 2 children (7&8) are looking to move to france from the uk. We dont know which area yet any suggestions would be greatful. We have been around a few different parts and love it. We are hoping to buy a place for around about 55k if possible. We have been researching and collecting as much information as we can but as they say its better to talk to people who have been there and done it. So any words of advise would be much appreciated

                     

                        

[Anton Redman]

Although difficult at that amount of money the problem is not buying a house it is finding a job. The real rate of unemployment in France is higher than the statics suggest and almost all French people have sons and daughters, contemporises from school, or friends children who are unemployed.

[Logan]

With only £55K for a property I suggest you try the Correze. Its a beautiful unspoilt region very quiet, very rural. 'France Profund' as Mr Chirac tells us. He should know he has a Chateau in the region. You will be able to find something needing work for that.

Problem is if you need employment you have no hope. That is also true of most of France. Unless you have the business capital to set up an income stream do not come to France unless you have (a) skills the French want and will pay for or (b) a pension. Sorry to be brutal but its the way it is.

[sclarke2208]

Like you, I am hoping to retire to France in 2 years time. Where to live? I would like anyone who can advise me as to where there is a largish contingent of ex-pats. More for conversation and occasional social things. I can speak French reasonably well so I would hope tin integrate into whichever locality I decide to move to. I was hoping that Northern France would be suitable, but no further south than the area of Seine-Maritime. Properties in and around Hesdin and Montreuil in Pas de Calais also look good value for money.

Any information would be really welcome. I shall start looking next year to find suitable locations for my proposed move.

[Alexis]

I am sure I will be shouted but....us English are everywhere.

No shortage around here anyway!

I would say that up North is handy for the ferry and that has to be taken into consideration if you plan on dashing back for marmite.  If you intend to dig in and not move from your little spot of paradise, Brittany has lots of us.

One thing, just because you live near British people doesn't mean you will like them or have anything in common.  Strange but true.

[naps]

We've only been here in Deux Sevres (79) for a month, but I took at quick look at an estate agent's site and found 37 houses under the 80,000 euro mark, so finding a house isn't a problem.  Not sure about employment possibilities in the area, but there are a lot of people in expensive new builds, so there's money somewhere!

[Will]

How honest do you want us to be? That sounds like a rather crass question but people have asked similar things here and on other forums, received truthful answers, and been offended, because they are not what they wanted to hear.

First, forget all the stuff you read in books and see on the TV about France being a cheap place to live. In some respects it may be cheaper than Britain but in others it is not. Certain areas of this part of France (Normandy) are full of impoverished British trying to do things on the cheap, and, frankly, not having an easy time of it.

Your budget will get you a house here, but what do you want? If you define a house as something you can live in rather than something that needs complete, long-winded and expensive rebuilding then that narrows the choice down to something small and in a village. If your budget is expected to cover renovation as well, forget it.

You might go for about 15-20,000€ less and buy something that needs updating and/or finishing off. This sounds easy, but in most cases the work will take up the money you have left - it's not just a bit of painting, you are probably talking about a new kitchen, installing a bathroom, a septic tank, heating (even parts of France known for being hot in summer get very cold in winter), plus possibly repairs to roof, windows, walls, etc. "Finishing off" indicates a renovation project that has been started but the owner has had to abandon it. Ask yourself why - probably either the work turned out to be far more than expected, or the owners found they couldn't live here and had to go home. Either reason should prompt you to ask questions.

Apart from somewhere to live, you need to exist. As we said, France isn't cheap and a bit of capital doesn't last long. You can't live on fresh air and cheap booze. Here, and in other rural areas, finding work is very difficult. Even the French are abandoning their family homes and having to go to the cities to find work. France has officially around 10% unemployed - the real figures, particularly in rural regions, are considerably higher. Unless you have an offer of work, or a very original business idea (there are already loads of British doing black-market building work, property maintenance, bed & breakfast etc) you may be better off staying at home - at least you stand a chance of qualifying for benefits in Britain.

I'm not wishing to put anybody off, we are here after all, and not relying on pensions and/or capital, but these are the sort of questions you have to consider, and which are glossed over by the 'Place in the Sun' type TV progs. Living here may be less stressful in many ways, but earning a living isn't necessarily one of them.

[Ron Avery]

Not sure that this is in the right place in the forum, should be one down me thinks, but as others have replied here is my 5 centimes worth

Spot on Will, I am sure that wigblue will appreciate the truth and not the gilded lily of the TV programmes.

It really is time Channel 4 and the like injected a bit of reality into things francais, the gloss of the TV programmes needs exposing for its pretentiousness.  To be fair, they did show some place in the sun disasters but mostly in Spain and for many you could not help feeling that the people involved had left their brains in the UK or just had not done their homework.

 How many times have we heard from that Stepford blonde  "and you can convert that (shack/falling down barn/heap of rubble into a gite and get 1000€ a week"?  How many times have we heard her say "and I can see you on the terrace with your glass of wine"?  But does she tell them their nearest neighbour is 2 km away and does not speak a word of english ( or want to learn!!) and your nearest village is 10km's away.  So what are they going to do in the autumn and winter and for the other 20 hours in the day?????

Sorry all, rant over, but thanks Will for telling the truth. it really is  not all wine and boules........all the time.

[adrianpmills]

Our area of the Limousin is still good for the odd bargain - plenty in certain parts around your budget.  Lots of young families are here and arriving.  At my son's school there will be 10 english kids and 30 french next year.  It is one of the most unspoilt region in France.  Very scenic.  Hilly and forested.  Lots of old stone houses, fewer modern houses than elsewhere.  Weather is variable and enjoyable.  Work is scarce, unless you have a trade then you will no problems.  Eastern Haute Vienne, Northern Correze and Southern Creuse are my favourite bits.  Certainly recommend you taking a look.  We have friends who live very happily on not a lot.  Good luck.

[Logan]

[quote]Our area of the Limousin is still good for the odd bargain - plenty in certain parts around your budget. Lots of young families are here and arriving. At my son's school there will be 10 english kid...[/quote]

I would be most interested to know how these families you speak of are earning a living. In my part of 24 French people who have lived here all their lives cannot find work. Many are highly qualified and willing to do almost anything. Yet unless they are prepared to move away to the major population centers they remain unemployed many for years. The system here in France is simply not either business or employment friendly. The small rural towns and villages are in serious decline with businesses closing almost every week. I now have to drive 8km to buy a loaf of bread, unheard of a few years ago. Unless the government urgently implements sweeping reforms to their political and economic system this decline will only continue. Unemployment continues to rise because France is unable to compete in the modern world. The problem is that there is simply not the political will to change anything. There are to many vested interest groups with the power to stop it happening.

Young people with young families do not have a future living in rural France unless it is one of subsistence living on benefits and handouts. You also cannot live from gites and growing vegetables alone. It is completely unrealistic. Even with a skill such as plumbing or building experience you will find it very difficult to get established and the social charges horrendous. Any other skill needs to be recognisable and qualified in France. My plea to anyone thinking of moving here without a sustainable income or fluency in the language is please don't. You face years of hardship and misery.

[wigblue]

Thanks to all for your diffrent views and advise,but my family and i are going to make the step across and give it a go, life here is not all good but not all bad and maybe a change from the norm will be just what is needed. we are only on earth for a short time and I for one dont what to spend my life thinking what if...or if only.I want to spend as much time as i can with my family  instead of in work,So the house is up for sale and the ball is in motion. so wish me luck please..

thanks to all .wigblue

ps It will be nice to get away from the crap on the tv to start with...

[Will]

'It will be nice to get away from the crap on the tv to start with...'

Have you seen French TV?

Best of luck.

Have you done the questionnaire in the current Living France to see how well prepared (or otherwise) you are?

[sclarke2208]

Well there is certainly a lot to think about re: moving to France, I am more confused than ever. Is there anyone out there who is actually very PLEASED to be living en France. And here I am a 58 yr old spinster thinking of upping sticks and moving there!!!  And I don't eat cheese or drink wine so at least I could lose weight. Some of the comments made are really true though. 3 years ago I did a reccy in Brittany having spent many happy hols there. When you see the word 'hamlet' avoid it unless you want to be completely isolated. Village I'm not so sure about. When driving around in Brittany it was deserted. Major towns seemed miles away from villages and an enormous amount of available properties were very rural. So beware as I shall, I don't do lonely, I would still like to have people around me though not so urbanised as the UK is (in my case anyway).

I wish wigblue all the look in the world and yes, you are quite right you only have one chance of a good life, and if you don't use it you'all always have that 'what if' hanging over you.

good luck

[Will]

Yes, Sclarke2208, a lot of us are very happy here in France. But I think we tend to be the people who, like you, did a bit of basic research before moving here.

In our case we got our employment situation sorted out before moving, and we knew the basics, as we owned a holiday home.

Having close links to a French business involved in property sales to the British (and Dutch and Irish) I think we get a feel for who comes here, and why. We see far too many people who seem to come on a whim. Some of them love it and manage to settle, but many others, perhaps those who came to escape problems, or because they felt disillusioned with Britain, find, after the honeymoon period, that they are in fact worse off here.

Problems tend not to go away just because you have different surroundings, while language difficulties and the general isolation of the sort of idyllic county properties everybody seems to want just cause loneliness. Renovation works go on longer than expected, and use up all the savings that were meant to provide an income to live on. Work is difficult, or impossible, to find (at least outside the black market). Tony Blair's government even begins to look like Utopia alongside M Chirac and his cronies.

If we can encourage people to move to France, that's fine. But we have to be honest about things, France isn't paradise (where is?) and we have to make sure people come for the right reasons, and without false hopes. If, after reading topics like this, people still want to move here then we have, I think done our duty to them. And I for one wish them every good fortune.

Even though we personally have a vested interest in selling homes to the British (and even reselling when they move again) we would much rather have one happy family than two or three disillusioned ones.

[Logan]

Life for wigblue in the UK seems deeply unsatisfying and not fulfilling potential for whatever reason. I wonder why France among all the countries of the world is the chosen place to try and find a more satisfying life. Perhaps its the possibility of buying a cheaper home. However remember houses are cheaper in rural France for a reason. The economy is depressed, incomes are low. The properties advertised as 'habitable' usually require either complete modernisation or at best updating substantially. This will be a major financial drain unless you can do all the work yourself. Even then materials are expensive and come with TVA at 19.6%. These old houses are expensive to heat and France has cold wet winters of 5 months. Rural France virtually shuts down for that time. There is practically no social life, long dark isolated evenings and I suspect wigblue will gratefully turn once more to the awfully telly. If you exclude mortgage repayments France costs the same to live as UK plus more for healthcare. Ask yourself if you will have sufficient income to sustain you and yours for at least 2 years from your own resources. It could well take that long to find work. These are some of the realities. I have lived in France over 20 years and would never now consider living anywhere else. However, having lived through all the problems I described can speak from experience. Believe us wigblue you face a tough time. I wish you lots of luck. You will certainly need it. 

[Lizzie15]

There are some excellent reality checks on this thread!Apart from house prices,why move? Good question.The weather is better in some areas (not all) but can be cold in winter( some areas),the wine is cheaper,and bottled water.The food used to be heaps better than Uk,not so any more although the local markets are still good (farmer's markets in UK are growing).The bureaucracy is strangling.There is something undefinable about being here,something good but I'm not sure how to put it into words.The language is a barrier if you don't speak the language and without children to help you I don't think you just "pick it up".The President is far worse than our PM ! In winter the hamlets are deserted- everyone shuts the shutters and that is that! In summer it is lovely! Long lazy days ( maybe not if you have to work).We've had a big Gap year ( well,several in fact!!) just to try out lots of options.Our conclusions? We love it here and will continue to come for high days and holidays but could not live here year round. That's my few euros worth! If you are determined,can speak the language,be able to find employment ( a nightmare for the French,worse for non-natives)or have enough money to actually live off ( it is not cheap once the house has come out of the equation)then brilliant- give it a go and good luck!There are some lovely places and equally lovely people.

[Ormx]

[quote]Well there is certainly a lot to think about re: moving to France, I am more confused than ever. Is there anyone out there who is actually very PLEASED to be living en France. And here I am a 58 yr ol...[/quote]

Pleased? We are, very.

Despite all the negative comments on these boards (some posters are genuinely trying to warn people to consider all the other factors when living abroad, not just that houses are cheaper) there are probably a lot of people happy with the decision to move here.

And just to say it can work:

We moved. H is French, I speak it fairly well, 2 kids and one on the way. No major life decision, felt we always wanted to live in the south, if it doesn't work out we can go somewhere else.NO JOBS lined up 

One year later, DH has a job, I have a 3rd child to take care of, we have a lower income compared to Dublin (much lower) but very little outgoings. We are better off. And that's without mentioning the weather, the fact that the kids have become fluent in the year, the fact that they don't teach the words of Westlife songs in the maternelle etc. etc.

And now that they're all peacefully in bed, think I will take a glass of something out to my sunlounger and bathe in that orange glow of the sun setting over the field of maize.

[Alexis]

It has been said before and it is a very sensible idea...rent for a while.

I imagine it will be impossible to tour all France looking for the ideal spot all in one go so to speak but if you rent for a year you can travel around, discover unknown areas, be on the spot for that nice house...

AND SEE IF YOU REALLY LIKE IT HERE!

A lot of people don't.  Too quiet.  Nothing to do.  Nobody to talk too.  No pub.  Don't like the food.  No takeaways.  All sorts or reasons

At least if you rent, you don't have to go through the palaver of selling your house here if you decide to move even if it is only to a 'better' area.

[cary]

it really is the language barrier us brits struggle with if it hasn't been learnt before making that move.  I learnt for a year, still only the basics and at colleges where i lived you tend to learn the "tourist" french, but it helped.  Been here 6 months now with 3 children age 11 (nearly) 8 and now 4.  Have got english friends here now but have also made a conscious effort to make french friends, that really helps with the language when they are here for bar-b-q's!!  It gets learnt alot quicker as however much you tell them your french isn't very good they still speak to you as if you were fluent.  Kids friends are all french but one who is english and my eldest has picked up the language better than any of us.  So at the moment for us it is happy and hopefully will stay that way,   so maybe ORMX i may join you on that sun-lounger in the lovely sun for a glass of something rather refreshing, while the children and their friends roller skate up and down the road past our horses having immense fun in the holidays. 

[annie1]

[quote]Like you, I am hoping to retire to France in 2 years time. Where to live? I would like anyone who can advise me as to where there is a largish contingent of ex-pats. More for conversation and occasion...[/quote]

We live in and love Picardie, there are still bargains here in Northern France, but they are going quick mainly being bought by the Dutch. Picardie like many other areas in France is experiencing a rise in prices in most types of house.

 

However a word of warning there are not a great number of Brits living in this part of France, part of its attraction for some, but if you need the support of expats perhaps Northern France is not for you.

 

A good idea would be to spend us much time as possible researching the area, we had a holiday home here for years before finally deciding to settle.

 

regards

good luck

 

 

[sclarke2208]

Thanks Annie for the response.

I have just two years till I reach the big 6  OH, and I hope to have sold up and found somewhere just before then. So I have a lot of time to travel round. Maybe two or three visits next year. I was in the Dordogne near Sarlat on holiday this year (June) and although it was beautiful scenery and weather, it was too hot for me as a permanent thing and it was hillier than I had expected and my fear of heights has gotten worse over the years. Therefore I would prefer the North because a) it is not so hot and b) hopefully it is not so hilly. I am hoping that my State pension and a private pension will be enough to live on as I won't need a mortgage. Perhaps Normany (Seine Maritime) might be an option or nearer the coastal resorts of Boulogne an others. Lots to think about any way,

 

many thanks