Jeremy Vine - radio 2 five minutes ago

[Cat]

Did anyone hear it?

I can't believe quite how angry I am.

 

[Unknown]

Yes I did.  I'm gobsmacked. 

Didn't realise Sirah (sp) was a Muslim.  That guy wants locking up.

[Suze01]

What was it about?

I believe you can relisten to programmes on the bbc radio website.

Edit: they've only got last week's JV programmes, I shall have to wait 'til next week I suppose.

[Unknown]

It was about the heckler at a speech John Reid made yesterday.  Apparently JR visited a Muslim community and asked parents to be vigilant re their kids becoming terrorists, or words to the effect of.  I didn't hear the speech but that's the general jist I got.

Anyway they had a friend of the heckler, who by the way said JR shouldn't have visited a Muslim community, was on the JV show along with Sirah (the one from the apprentice with Alan Sugar.  It all kicked off and the Muslim friend was quite rude to Sirah.

Sorry got to go out and can't give anymore detail at the mo, hopefully someone else will be more specific.

[powerdesal]

I believe the heckler said JR shouldn't visit a Muslim AREA, a tad different in context to a Muslim community. Since when were  there 'no go' areas in UK?

[Mark]

Someone on the radio yesterday or this morning was saying that Allah controls Britain and its destiny, thereby rendering its democratically elected government pointless.  I'm fairly liberal, but that's clearly nutty and is symptomatic of a climate that's been allowed to gestate (and is now growing) by people who won't say it's nutty because they are too scared to be seen as being politically incorrect. 

Something pretty worrying is developing.....

[Deimos]

I don't know about the radio broadcast but, (I did not hear it), but given what he wanted to say (rightly or wrongly) then he was in something of a lose/lose situation. Say it from his office as a "Press Release" and he would be accused for "failing to engage the communities" and say it in the communities and he's dammed for "his nerve given ..."

Quite how successful parents would be at detecting their children starting to become religious extremists is also another matter. I have the impression that these days with rebellious teenagers parents often have great problems having any control. And then in religious communities, detecting when somebody is becoming "too religious" might be challenging.

I do wonder though if a lot of all this detecting people being recruited is looking at addressing the results of a problem and that maybe sorting out the causes might be more successful. Many in the UK seem to think the causes making recruitment much easier for the extremists is the UK Middle East policy.

Ian

[Mark]

Should have added that the guy I heard was using the argument I described above to excuse fanaticism, which is what I had a problem with.  Whether or not he believes Allah or a lump of blue cheese is more authoritative than Tony Blair is neither here nor there (in fact he might have had a point if he'd gone down the blue cheese route).

[Patmobile]

At least we know the lump of blue cheese exists.  So, I believe, does Mr. Blair though I've never met him. 

Allah, on the other hand, is an imaginary being.

Patrick

[Patf]

He may be an imaginary being but his influence has concrete results.

[jamesg]

[quote user="Patf"]He may be an imaginary being but his influence has concrete results.

[/quote]

Yes a load of trouble like any religious fanaticism.

[hastobe]

[quote user="powerdesal"]I believe the heckler said JR shouldn't visit a Muslim AREA, a tad different in context to a Muslim community. Since when were  there 'no go' areas in UK?

[/quote]

Sadly for quite a while - I think I posted before about how my nephew and his friend were given 'a good hiding' (and ended up in hospital) for walking through a muslim area of the city.  When the case came to court the defendant had 'gone home to Pakistan for a long holiday with family!'   My husband and our two young sons were also forced to leave a local 'muslim' park - this park is not exclusively muslim - it is a local community area that has been there for many years - my husband used to play there as a child in the fifties. 

Kathie

[Unknown]

Hastobe, that's awful.  Are you talking about an area in the UK?

How was your husband forced to leave?

[powerdesal]

I imagine it was by threats of violence, that seems to be a trait among certain members of the 'multi-cultural' society of the UK.

[hastobe]

Yes Dotty - Stoke-on-Trent.  And yes, powerdesal, it was by threats of violence from a group of asians in their late teens to early twenties.  Richard hadn't been to that park for ages and on the spur of the moment stopped off to take our two boys to show them where he played when he was their age.  Both the boys were petrified and Richard was really shaken - we've never gone back there.

Kathie

[Spongebob]

We have sown the wind, so shall we reap the whirlwind.

We have allowed ethnic minorities to rewrite the rules over the last few years, and will now pay the price.

Spongebob.

[Cat]

[quote user="Dotty Trois"]

It was about the heckler at a speech John Reid made yesterday.  Apparently JR visited a Muslim community and asked parents to be vigilant re their kids becoming terrorists, or words to the effect of.  I didn't hear the speech but that's the general jist I got.

Anyway they had a friend of the heckler, who by the way said JR shouldn't have visited a Muslim community, was on the JV show along with Sirah (the one from the apprentice with Alan Sugar.  It all kicked off and the Muslim friend was quite rude to Sirah.

Sorry got to go out and can't give anymore detail at the mo, hopefully someone else will be more specific.

[/quote]

The friend of the heckler was extremely rude to Syra (sp ??).  He said that she was indecently dressed (half naked was the actual phrase he used), that she probably didn't even know how to wash herself properly, that she wasn't showing appropriate respect and submission as a woman (due to her clothing)..He sais that in Muslim beliefs there are two types of woman, and that she was the worst sort... in effect she was a low woman and a bad muslim.  Syra defended herself by saying that she was wearing a non-revealing perfectly decent dress

He has also said that, if he knew of a terrorist bombing plot, he wouldn't necessarily report it to the authorities.

He launched into a monologue that had to be terminated by Jeremy Vine, who simply said "No, I will not allow you to continue".

It was quite incredible.

 

 

 

[Mark]

[quote user="Spongebob"]

We have sown the wind, so shall we reap the whirlwind.

We have allowed ethnic minorities to rewrite the rules over the last few years, and will now pay the price.

Spongebob.

[/quote]

Tiny proportions of ethnic minorities (and indeed of the WASP majority, if you'll forgive the lazy catch-all) are made up of idiots.  It is those idiots, and only those idiots, who I think have been given too much leeway to preach and practice hate.  The vast majority of people of all cultures just want to live in peace don't they?  

[Hoddy]

He also said that Islamd is superior and it would be better for all of us if the UK was a Moslem country.

I think that his reference to Saira not knowing how to wash herself properly probably refers to the ritual ablutions which Moslems are required to perform.

There have been similarly offensive interviews with Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight and John Humphreys on the Today programme.

I agree that the extremists are a minority and wish that they had been given a little less air time to respond to the Pope's lecture and John Reid's speech.

It seems to me that they rather like to be offended because it gives them an excuse to spout their hatred and they don't give any credibility or leeway to others while expecting it for themselves.

Hoddy

[powerdesal]

Unfortunately Mark, whilst the vast majority of people of all cultures do no doubt want to live in peace there is a sizeable element in the  Muslim community who only want peace on their terms.They have an interpretation of the Koran which does not fit with our secular democratic ideals and they believe that it gives them the right to insult and destroy our society in the name of their religion. That this belief is shared by all muslims is patently not true but, and it is a big but, the silent majority continue their silence which can be and is, interpreted as sanctioning the radical beliefs and actions. The radical minority demand and get a disproportionate amount of publicity which, I believe, feeds their view that they are right. Until the Muslim community as a whole openly and publicly clamp down on their own radical elements they will all be considered as suspicious and will be treated accordingly.

[Deimos]

To what extent is the current situation (verbal situation - not talking about terrorism threats) made worse but the fact that the majority have to be so "Politically Correct". Because to disagree would be interpreted as being anti-Muslim. One sees similar things all over the place. For example, criticize Israel's human rights record and one is accused of being "anti-Semitic". Nobody can safely appear and disagree because they would he "hindering free speech", "being anti-Muslim", etc..

I have no problem with outspoken nutters having a platform. I tend to think that the difficulty comes in that people with a more normal view cannot respond. However, within their communities I expect more people are listening given all the wars the UK seems to be involved in these days. Maybe we have allowed things to get so bad as everybody has to be so careful what they say about so many things these days.

Have people noticed how little publicity there was about the "retaliation" to the Danish Cartoons - even though a Danish newspaper did publish them as well. I have not seen them but by all accounts they are at least equally offensive to other religious/cultural groups.

I agree with powerdesal's comment about the fact that the Muslim "silent majority" are being very silent. Similarly, if the police/security services try to identify terrorists they are accused of racial prejudice, and when it it is suggested that Muslim's try to sort out extreme elements no end of criticisms (about telling the communities to spy on each other, etc.). Given that the underlying cause is unlikely to be sorted out in the near future we can only address the results.

Ian

[Mark]

Ian, powerdesal,

I agree with much of what you say apart from the mention of this silent majority who are apparently, by their passivity, giving licence to fanaticism

'We' are currently trying to forcibly impose democracy on countries with no history of it (Iraq and Afghanistan).  I don't agree with that policy at all, just as I don't think there's any justification in anyone trying to alter the secularity of GB through violence, but I haven't protested in any way since we invaded Iraq.  Is my silence tantamount to support for Bush and Blair?  Nope, it's just laziness.  I spend all my time doing trivial things like going to Tescos and paying bills, just like most British muslims, who presumably aren't remotely politicised. 

The trouble with the media is that they'll wheel the nutters in to be interviewed because they make for good telly.  The nutters are then seen by some, understandably I suppose, to be truly representative of a huge body of people from Turkey to Indonesia.

  

[powerdesal]

Hoddy's penultmate line rather says it all, they do seem to like to be offended.

Considering that the Muslim religion does not any centralised head and each Muslim should interpret the Koran in his own way there seems to be an extremely well developed 'structure' to rapidly foment worlwide reaction to any perceived insult. If I was into conspiracy theories I would say that someone (individual or group) has set up an organisation with 'stringers' across the World to quickly pass on any 'reasons' to start demonstrations and with local contacts in the various centres of Islam to immediatly wind up the local populace - supplying suitable flags and effigies for burning.

The type of 'spontaneous' reaction by Muslims across the World to the Pope's recent speech was quite remarkable, in its speed if nothing else. After all, his speech at some German university was not really the headline news of the day, only the reaction to it.

[Viv]

I do think that there is a lot of 'hiding' behind Islam with the younger generation of Moslems at the moment. Most teenagers having a rebellion I would have thought, would turn their back on religion not embrace it even more than their parents do. IMHO it seems to me that some of the young moslem males go down this path not because they deeply love Islam but they dislike those outside their religion for whatever reason .  Fanatical Islam is a club that they can join and it seems to attract the disaffected nobodies and it is brainwashing. The mad mullahs are 'grooming' young men as John Reid said exactly the same way as paedophiles groom their victims.

It also seems to me that there is a policy of appeasement in the UK, and the more Europe appeased Hitler the more he took until they realised he couldn't be appeased.... I think it is the same with Islam.

[powerdesal]

Mark,

I realy don't think you can equate your lack of protest about the Iraq/Afghanistan situation with the silence of the majority of Muslims in Britain.

Its the Islamic nutters who interpret the silence of their peers as being support for their radical actions, therefore the 'silent majority' have to be seen by fellow muslims as openly condemning the radical terrorist actions.In addition, the mullahs have to actively condemn. There is a saying that goes something like 'for evil to succeed it is necessary for good men to do nothing' or something like that. I am sure someone on this forum will correct it (Dick?????)

I also agree with your views on the imposition of democracy. I dont think lack of protest is necessarily laziness but more a realistic acceptance that our Govt does not take any notice of the people's views. The muslim majority would not be in that same position but would be influencing their own community attitudes.