At last, some sense on IB

[ebaynut]

There are abuses to the system, of that there is no argument, and I fully understand the anger expressed by some. However…you cannot take anything you read, even from supposedly expert sources, to be the gospel truth, and this report albeit from a so called 'government advisor', is just one of a number of differing views.

 

I seem to remember that it wasn’t long ago that Saddam was accused of stockpiling huge quantities of biological/chemical WMD that could be launched on us within 40 minutes, supposedly supported by all manner of credible documentation and reliable intelligence, purported to be true by governments on both sides of the pond, and splashed across every newspaper and news channel.

 

Sadly, everyone believed these reports, result: Thousands upon thousands of people paid for this 'reliable' mis-information with their lives.

[Russethouse]

Oh come on ebay nut - Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction and abuse of the IB system are not even in the same ball park. Just for a start the WMD were never found and many people actually know someone on benefit who shouldn't be.

Something somewhere has gone wrong. 25 -30 years ago my Aunt applied for a blue badge so that they could park near to the supermarket, her mobility was dreadful and she had Parkinsons. The examination and questions to get this so upset her that a few years later they refused point blank to ask for attendance allowance, even though my Aunt was completely dependant on my Uncle and he even had to help her turn over in bed at night.

Contrast this with a neighbour telling me just last year that her mother was able to claim £60 per week for nothing much more than getting around by bus or taxi and because a nice person from Age Concern helped her fill in the form. Is she ill or disabled ? No. Old ? Yes. Was she desperate for the money, No. As far as she is concerned its welcome bonus. The same person suggested that I should apply as my mothers carer even though I only see her once or twice a week, on the basis that I am responsible for her. (I didn't)

How did we get from there to here with no stop for a middle way ?

 

 

[woolybananasbrother]

If it is there take it.[6]

[ebaynut]

RH - But this was exactly my point.

People believe these reports, because they MUST be true, they are in the paper, or on the news! The justification for the 'witch hunt'.

As a result, genuine people are reluctant to make a claim because they don't want the stigma of being on benefits, and the stigma associated with that of 'being on the fiddle'. This is one of the reasons why so many people, particularly of our parents generation, do not claim the benefits that they are ENTITLED to.

Consequently, innocent people are caught up in the aftermath.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

[Frederick]

It is  exactly as you see it ebaynut its a generation thing ....perhaps from the days when people knew about " Parish Relief and the Work House " from their  parents and the social stigma of claiming such ....People brought up with the welfare system today dont look at it like that.  and are ready to claim  ...and if entitled to do so should ...thats what we pay into it for.   Its the   "working of the system " that stinks  like only last week a guy.... a patient... told me he had given his brother some money to hold for him as he would have had over £16.000 in his account and it would stop a claim .....( why do they tell me these things ...but they do ? )  Given the working of the system by our leaders  in the news this week is it any wonder people think its OK to cheat ....   

[Gluestick]

In the main, people cheat because they know it is going to be very hard to catch them.

When she first first returned to work after raising our son, Mrs Gluey worked for the local large DSS office part time: someone discovered in an emergency that she had actually been a top-level PA and thereafter she worked for the top honcho concerned with fraud.

The stories she told me were truly horrifying!

The department knew all the local fraudsters: even knew where they worked, but literally had to catch them in the act of taking the cash

So many people I come across in my professional life these days are fiddling: using an owner-occupier mortgage for a Buy 2 Let (and thus saving 1% interest) is common: as it not declaring the ownership and the revenue stream to HMR&C.

So, unfortunately, is contracting for work to be done: and then not paying the bill.

I will not undertake professional work anymore for new and young limited companies without a substantial deposit and personal guarantees from the directors; we have had far too many being wound up and the directors lying to Companies House on the closure forms about creditors.

Cheating and lying have become a fact of modern life: and as you say, Frederick, the example from the top encourages imitation.

 

[mint]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Cheating and lying have become a fact of modern life: and as you say, Frederick, the example from the top encourages imitation.

 

[/quote]

I know that you are right, Gluey, but it does depress me utterly.

[Scooby]

One of the consequences of the number of people fraudulently claiming benefits is that the medical assessments have become far more onerous, in a very negative way, for both the genuinely sick as well as the fraudulent claimants.  The idea of an independent examination sounds wonderful until you consider the fact that some people have complex or rare conditions.   I suffer from Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a rare and inherited genetic disorder.  Because it is a rare condition, it is very unlikely that a benefits doctor (usually a local GP doing additional work) will have heard of this - never mind be in a position to assess how it impacts on your day to day life. (I know from personal experience.) Further, without notes and records, a benefits doctor may not understand the gravity of the claimants condition and may make entirely inappropriate requests.  My mother applied for DLA a few years ago and was asked to have a medical assessment at her home - which she agreed to.  She has serious heart condition and at the time of the assessment she was waiting for a triple bypass and an aortic valve replacement, she had just recovered (sort of) from a bout of pneumonia, she has severe arthritis in her spine and her hips (and having had rickets as a child and due to her heart problems she wasn't considered a suitable candidate for replacement surgery), she had also just being diagnosed with breast cancer (for the second time).  Despite all of these problems the assessment doctor asked her to walk up and downstairs (something she had been told absolutely not to do).  My mum tried her best, figuring that, as he was a doctor, it must be ok.  She had a cardiac arrest within hours of the doctor leaving and was hospitalised for quite some time.  Oh and she was turned down for benefit.  Since that experience my parents have both refused to apply for benfits that they are genuinely entitles to.  They quote 'would rather starve than be humiliated again.'

The problems aren't just from bystanders making assumptions about all claimants, it is also with the system that treats genuine claimants with unnecessarily cruelness - just in case they may be one of the ones swinging the lead.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Scooby"] Despite all of these problems the assessment doctor asked her to walk up and downstairs (something she had been told absolutely not to do).  My mum tried her best, figuring that, as he was a doctor, it must be ok.  She had a cardiac arrest within hours of the doctor leaving and was hospitalised for quite some time.  [/quote]

I trust that your dear Mum sued both the doctor's and the departments collective asses off, Scooby?

Such slavering medical incompetence needs dire and draconian punishment!