When oh when ?

[Bugsy]

will the pathetic UK government finally take some action against these bloody people.

Read this and get angry.

.

[Dog]

I am angry - the police having the right to stop a legal peaceful demonstration - sounds like a police state.

[krusty]

And another story in the news , slightly different subject , makes the blood boil.

 

[Quillan]

Perhaps if the bloody government had not sent troops there in the first place there would be no need to have a demonstration. I don't have a problem with it as long as there is no violence on both sides. After all its their human right to demonstrate and stopping it would be no different than say the Chinese police stopping demonstrations in China.

[woolybanana]

So you would be happy for the BNP (is that their initials?) to parade through the streets if this small town, too Quillan, shouting slogans and offending people, carrying offensive banners? Any attempt by these groups to be allowed to demonstrate should be stopped by the police on public order grounds so they do not get the oxygen of publicity.

[Hoddy]

There are plenty of people in the UK who would be very angry about this and who might well turn up and hold a violent counter demonstration.

Perhaps they could demonstrate on the streets of Kabul ?

Hoddy

[woolybanana]

Perhaps a company of those very brave men who have been out there might care to come along and give their views!

[Dog]

I am sure many brave Afghans would love to come and express their views.

[woolybanana]

They are at Calais!

[Dog]

So what are you so unhappy about?

[Quillan]

I thought one of the reasons we have troops in Afghanistan and Iraq (and will probably shortly have them in Iran as well if the US have their way) is not only to fight terrorism but to ensure that the people in those countries have decent human rights. It seems its OK to encourage them in their country (as we appear to do with Iran at the moment) but not in the UK. Its a bit, well to use and old slang word nimby really. I doubt there would be any complaints about a demonstration/march supporting the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Perhaps people think its only soldiers that are being killed in both these countries.

The only thing is that both the demonstrators and the politicians are missing the point with this by 'attacking' or 'defending' our soldiers when its got nothing to do with them. They are just the poor unfortunate pawns in this and have always been supported, its just the war thats not supported by 'the people'. These people would be better off demonstrating outside parliament as that is where the warmongers live.

Its interesting to note than whenever they film and talk to people of Wooten Bassett only the poor unfortunate soldiers are talked about and how people feel about them being killed. The question that is never asked, or answered, in the broadcasts is what the people of Wooten Bassett think of the war. Not supporting the war is quite different from not supporting the soldiers.

I personally support the latter but not the former and as I have said many times I will be very happy when they all come home safely and the quicker the better.

Oh yes, just to finish, the BNP has a right to march just in the same way, I/we might not like it and think them disgusting but it is their right and a lot of people have died to ensure equality is for all regardles of if we approve or disapprove of the people concerned.

[powerdesal]

I fully, 100%, support the British forces wherever they may be operating. I do NOT support their use in Afghanistan.

I fully agree that, in a democracy, all people should be free to peacefully demonstrate in support of their own views, however......It is a fact that Wooten Bassett has become a "special" place, or rather a place of "special" significance. I have no doubt that the people of WB did not intend such speciality, but it has happened.

The intention of the proposed march is, in my view, a deliberate provocation to civil disorder and a de facto insult to the people of WB and to the memory of our fallen military.

If a protest march is desired then it should be directed at those who order the troops into battle, ie the Govt, hence it should be held in London, at Parliament.

Wooten Bassett is a totally innappropriate place to hold such a protest unless the underlying intention is to cause trouble and I truly believe that this is the real reason. If the march is given permission to go ahead then it will be a magnet for BNP / EDL etc yobs and will effectively achieve nothing other than lurid red top headlines and a further polarisation of attitudes.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Dog"]I am sure many brave Afghans would love to come and express their views.[/quote]

Would some of them will be the brave Afghans who daily kill their own people with IEDs and booby traps which cant tell the difference between indigenous civilians and foreign military. Or perhaps the brave Afghans who mutilate their own people for "co-operating" with the "invaders"

Are those the ones you mean Dog????

[Gardengirl]

As Powerdesal says, Wooten Bassett has become a special place. The dead young men and women are taken through there because of  the logistics of flights etc. The people there started to turn out in small numbers as a mark of respect for those who were killed in our name. This has grown, and has become well known; it is not support for the two wars.

I agree that any protest march there by anyone who is against these two wars, of whatever nationality and for whatever reason, would dishonour these soldiers. This is not the place for anti war protests; outside Parliament is the right place. I think this idea is dishonourable and intended to cause trouble.

One day, soon we hope, Wooten Bassett can re-take its place as somewhere not many people have heard of, just a faint memory for most of us. But it will remain a source of strength and support in the memories of those who have lost a loved one and had to pass through there at one of the bleakest times in their lives.

[Quillan]

Firstly the place is the only village on the route from RAF Lyneham to the M4 motorway so its a natural place for people to pay their respects. Secondly the majority of soldiers killed have to pass through the village. RAF Lyneham has been a maintenance and transport airfield since WW2 and therefore has been the 'hub' for dead soldiers coming home by air for many years. I don't remember the good people of Wootton Bassett coming out to pay their respects to the soldiers killed in Northern Ireland or the Falklands (apart for colonel 'H') for example.

I don't think any demonstration anywhere by anyone against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is disrespectful to the soldiers there or to those that have given their life. The two things are really quite separate. It could be said that in demonstrating against said wars that you are actually showing respect for the troops in that the sooner the politicians pay notice to the people and return all the troops to the UK you are helping to stop this senseless killing of our troops.

It would be rather stupid of the likes of the BNP to demonstrate at the same time because they claim they want the troops outs of these countries as well. The only thing they could demonstrate about is that those marching are, in their book, none indigenous white people, therefore their demonstration would be purely racist and in a way help those who have their doubts about the true agenda of the BNP see things clearer.

I do agree however that for better 'effect' they would be better off marching and demonstrating in London during the week, block a few roads off, cause a lot of disruption and end up outside the Houses of Parliament would get them just as much publicity.

Lets be honest there is not much in the article to say which Afghans being killed they are demonstrating about. It could be their thinking that with the army being there and all these bombs going off a lot of innocent people have been killed and thats what they may be demonstrating about. Unfortunately I think the bombs would be going off regardless of the army being there or not.

Personally I don't think the demonstration will happen, or be allowed to take place there anyway.

 

[just john]

I wonder what freedom a minority (or even, allah forbid a majority) in Afghanistan, Iraq or Iran would be allowed to protest peacefully in the streets . . .

Children burned and screaming by Taliban

[AnOther]

If you really want get your blood boiling then view THIS ppt file, then tell me how long an anti muslim protestor would have lasted before being arrested [:@]

 

[Quillan]

Well what can one say!

The Ppoint presentation is false in that its something a French right wing group have cobbled together based on a demonstration in the UK. You might do well to read the last frame. I don't remember any churches burnt down by this lot in the UK and likewise I was not aware that the veil had been banned in the UK either. The pictures are actually from the demo in Feb 2006 which was in protest of the guy who did the cartoons. I seem to remember something similar about Life of Brian and that film was actually banned in some countries because of demonstrations. Neither were actually right but I wish people would not use these things to stir up trouble. There are lots of good Muslims out there and you can't tar them all with the same brush, its just stirring up paranoia.

The article in the Indi is about Pakistan, perhaps we should invade them next? These issues are for the inhabitants of the respective countries (Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan) to sort out and are nothing to do with us. Its propaganda to justify the governments illegal invasion.

Strange is it not that these countries also have resources that the US want. I would love to know why the Americans never bothered to send peace keeping troops to Northern Ireland. Of course we already know the answer to that one, a massive Irish voting population in the US which is why they never stopped the blatant and very public fund raising carried out by Noraid at St Patrick's day parades in the US. The money collected was used to buy arms to kill British troops in Northern Ireland (you should visit their website, a nasty group of individuals).

[just john]

I believe the articles show the confrontational aspects of the fundamentalists and the restrictions of freedom in Islamic cultures irrespective  of state compared to the opposing views expressed by the west. Taliban and Al qaeda seem to be merciless in their approach to governing their own and dealing with opposition views. Not a lot of diplomacy visible in their dictatorial demands or womens rights.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/world/middleeast/13iran.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/06/200961445310869719.html

 

 

[powerdesal]

I would love to know why the Americans never bothered to send peace keeping troops to Northern Ireland.

 

I suspect Quillan, that irrespective of a massive Irish voting population, even the Americans would jib at "invading" the country of their longest standing ally, for peace keeping purposes or not. It would have been a very very bad move.

[just john]

Steve, wasn't it the fact that the IRA were fighting for freedom to govern themselves, as opposed to restricting those eligible to govern in the Islamic fundamentalist states?

[Frederick]

How  many Muslim countries have Christian members of their parliaments voted in to govern them like we have Muslim ones  in the UK representing us ?

[Quillan]

[quote user="powerdesal"]

I suspect Quillan, that irrespective of a massive Irish voting population, even the Americans would jib at "invading" the country of their longest standing ally, for peace keeping purposes or not. It would have been a very very bad move.

[/quote]

Thats why I said "a massive Irish voting population in the US"

[quote user="just john "]Steve, wasn't it the fact that the IRA were fighting for freedom to govern themselves, as opposed to restricting those eligible to govern in the Islamic fundamentalist states?[/quote]

The original IRA became the Irish Army in Southern Ireland after it gained it's independence. The IRA that was active in the North was not the same. The British Army was placed in Northern Ireland to stop the Catholics and Protestants killing each other and was there in a peace keeping role.

[quote user="just john "]

I believe the articles show the confrontational aspects of the fundamentalists and the restrictions of freedom in Islamic cultures irrespective  of state compared to the opposing views expressed by the west. Taliban and Al qaeda seem to be merciless in their approach to governing their own and dealing with opposition views. Not a lot of diplomacy visible in their dictatorial demands or womens rights.[/quote]

Actually if you read the Koran Muslim women have more rights than Catholic women, the most immediate right that come to mind is that they can get a divorce.

This is an area where you can go round in circles because the main difference is how different people in different countries interprete whats in the Koran. Below I have copied (its free of copy right) an English translation of some of the rights of Muslim women. (Source www.islamic.org)

The right and duty to obtain education.

 The right to have their own independent property.

 The right to work to earn money if they need it or want it.

 Equality of reward for equal deeds.

 The right to participate fully in public life and have their voices heard by those in power.

 The right to provisions from the husband for all her needs and more.

 The right to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.

 The right to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply can't stand him.

 The right to keep all her own money (she is not responsible to maintain any relations).

 The right to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.

 and more...

[AnOther]

[quote user="Quillan"]The Ppoint presentation is false in that its something a French right wing group have cobbled together based on a demonstration in the UK.[/quote]You miss my point by a country mile Quillan, it is nothing to do with the source or possible agenda of the author of the presentation but the fact that if you or I were to attempt to demonstrate with the banners saying 'Behead Those Who Insult Christianity' or 'Butcher Those Who Slander Christendom' the police would have us locked up in minutes and charged with incitement.

[Quillan]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="Quillan"]The Ppoint presentation is false in that its something a French right wing group have cobbled together based on a demonstration in the UK.[/quote]You miss my point by a country mile Quillan, it is nothing to do with the source or possible agenda of the author of the presentation but the fact that if you or I were to attempt to demonstrate with the banners saying 'Behead Those Who Insult Christianity' or 'Butcher Those Who Slander Christendom' the police would have us locked up in minutes and charged with incitement.

[/quote]

Can you give an example of this happening?