Students revolting again - France? No UK

[Gluestick]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Still, Animal Farm, although anti-communist and anti-totalitarianism, is hardly right wing either.  I am a great admirer of Orwell's (his essays and letters are fascinating) - not least his defense of the English language!  I would hardly call his reaction to his experiences in the Spanish Civil War as Damiscene, but he certainly reacted strongly against totalitarianism and extreme politics of both kinds.  Quite right too, imho.[/quote]

I'm sure you read Orwell's Road to Catalonia, JE: he is scathingly critical of the Russian Marxist- Leninist  "Advisers" sent to Spain: as he was after when recovering in Paris from his throat wound. 

Sure: he remained a Socialist: but thereafter, tinged with absolute suspicion about the realities of the Worker's Utopia of Soviet Russia!

Probably important to remember that most British socialists, including Ramsey McDonald, were besotted by the image and propaganda of Russia then: so much so that McDonald's first premiership ended quickly, in disarray.

[quote]Funny, Gluey, my mother always told me that I would get over my leftie tendacies when I got older.  I'm happy to say that in fact I take after my father and the opposite has happened![:D]

[/quote]

Good on yer!

I am far to the Left of Marx on certain issues: and far to the right of Genghis Khan on others!

[:)]

[casa99]

The police did their softly softly approach this time because of there bully boy tactics at the g20 gatherings earlier in the year when a completely innocent guy was hit repeatedly with a baton and ended up in the morgue and the copper who hit him is still in the force . I think everyone is entitled to protest at these draconian cuts caused by succesive goverments tory and labour, but I would never accept people resorting to violence to make a point.

[pachapapa]

Heroic! Well SS perhaps a slight exaggeration. I'll happily downgrade it to bravery to make you happy again.

But when the cavalry charged us, it took real guts to stand our ground and throw ball-bearings under their hooves; as the horses fell to the ground I was scared that one might fall on top of me.

But my courage and lack of fear stood me in good stead.

Have you ever been near a horse? They are quite big things, you know.

 

[Benjamin]

Could I borrow the tape measure when you boys have finished?

I've got a dead cockroach to measure.

[Frederick]

Oh dear    Now every horse lover and animal rights activist is going to add their three penny's worth  !

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Nad"]This thread has gone wild and i cant be bothered to read it all HOWEVER with regards to the student revolt i have a few points to make (sorry if they have already been made):

As a student at LSE myself, the fee increase is a joke. For those students whose parents earn a minimal amount (remembering all those students from high school whose parents combined had to earn less than £30,000 to get the grant and there were a lot) the thought of their child leaving education with a minimum £27,000 debt is ridiculous, it is a psychological issue which anyone who earns little can agree with

Secondly, the poor may be affected little (grants etc but then again these are limited), the 'rich' can afford education (university is most likely a relief to parents who paid £25,000 a year for boarding school education) however those that are affected are the middle class whose parents earn a modest income and although may, at a push, be able to afford fees, will do so at much personal expense.

Finally, those who stormed the Millbank buildings seem to be those caught in the midst of the most political activity they will have ever seen in their academic careers. most never had any political activist experience, most joined in 'for the crack', none were 'uneducated, showing the decline in academia'. For a start, some of those students were from LSE and i doubt you can generalise those students as being 'uneducated'.

My point is that in a 'democracy' such as the UK everyone should have the right to further education and by increasing fees we are massively cutting out a huge skilled labour force that could contribute to the economy. This is both immoral and 'un-economically sound'.

Anyone who claims they have a degree pre-top up fees has little contribution as they never had to deal with the economic burden that comes with a university degree.[/quote]

When I read this sort of thing, written apparently by a university Undergraduate, I am tempted to weep: at the Textspeek, lack of punctuation, grammar and cogent self-expression.

Degree level and upwards demands the ability to write with clarity, clear knowledge and without ambiguity: and, in England, in English.

Which the above is clearly not.

To me, it is an excellent exemplar of how and why education has gone so horribly awry.

I liked this bit, particularly: "My point is that in a 'democracy' such as the UK everyone should have the right to further education......".

In your utopian dreams!

No one has "A right" to anything, very much: HFE ought always to be an earned privilege.

This also amused me: ".......by increasing fees we are massively cutting

out a huge skilled labour force that could contribute to the

economy.....".

Oh that it were true!

What is rather fun is to read the list of famous alumni: many of those responsible for creating the socio-economic disaster which is called Britain went to LSE!  See Here:

[:)]

And now, they want us, apparently, to pay for them to go on and  learn how to destroy the little that is left!

Hilarious!

[:D]

[powerdesal]

Having had my tertiary education paid for by my employer (or by the taxpayer as my employer was a nationalised industry) perhaps I should refrain from comment, but........

My solution would be to have means-tested grants available (with realistic means levels) for selected degree courses, ie technological / medical / commercial and then all the rest of the pseudo-degrees (football management et al) being charged at full cost, no grants.

[pachapapa]

I remember it well; sitting in the Old Theatre in 1967 of an evening listening to the pathetic exchange of views.

Something of a mega-jump from Mech Eng 220 at Imperial, with Piers Corbyn in full flow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/13/newsid_2542000/2542639.stm

As I remember they were not to patriotic either.[:D]

Marshall Bloom had been involved in American civil rights protests before moving to Britain. He returned to the US and committed suicide in November 1969 after receiving his military call-up papers for possible service in Vietnam.

 

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Having had my tertiary education paid for by my employer (or by the taxpayer as my employer was a nationalised industry) perhaps I should refrain from comment, but........

My solution would be to have means-tested grants available (with realistic means levels) for selected degree courses, ie technological / medical / commercial and then all the rest of the pseudo-degrees (football management et al) being charged at full cost, no grants.[/quote]

Agree principally, Steve: I would however, go much further.

Simply abort all this degree and "Uni" nonsense; proper degrees in sensible - and necessary - subjects, at the highest possible academic level.

None of this "Gap Year" idiocy.

If the UK doesn't soon start working and creating real new wealth, it is all ephemeral anyway: the UK's toast and will simply slide at increasing speed into a sort of Third World Banana Republic; the poor man of Europe; anarchy on the streets; the whole bag.

Interestingly, my (published) forecast for UK was precisely that by 2015, with China, India, Korea and Asia the new World leaders; and that was back in  the early 1990s...........

[pachapapa]

Post-graduate tuition seems to be proportionately more expensive.

A Cass Business School Masters at the City University now costs £ 31,000.

When I studied there the SSRC fortunately paid for tuition and maintenance.