If you caught a burglar....

[mint]

breaking into your house, what would you do?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8771809/Father-arrested-for-murder-over-knifing-suspected-burglar.html

Would you go as far as this man apparently did?

[idun]

If it came to it, and I was threatened then I would defend myself by any means.

If threatened there is no point in half protecting yourself, that sounds a good way to end up being attacked or dead. And in the heat of the moment, HOW do you control the force you use, all that adrenalin at work.

Reasonable force, well, we the public are not professionals, we do what we have to do. AND no one asks anyone to break in. The CPS should take that into account.

 

 

 

[Frecossais]

Interesting comparison: defending one's home is equivalent to a soldier defending his country.

I think if I went to investigate a possible attempt at burglary in my house, I wouldn't arm myself with a knife. I just can't imagine myself stabbing another person. But I'd have no compunction about whacking them with a rolling pin or other wooden object, or pushing them downstairs, or temporarily disabling them with a kick where it hurts. Of course any action on my part presupposes that I get the opportunity to do any of these.

I wonder if I'd be so paralysed by fear that I'd miss the opportunity to defend my property........

[Patf]

These days when many burglars are armed you run a risk taking them on. We had a burglary once, about 6.30am, and I just pretended to be asleep.

A neighbour (in UK) heard someone in her dining room one morning - she had a key to the room so she locked him in and called the police.

[Quillan]

I can't remember the names of those involved but when that farmer, Martin was it, shot the bloke in the leg and got sent to prison they interviewed the Chief Constable for that region who said that when faced with a person who is burgling your home and/or threatening violence towards you or your family you shout shout at them as loud as you can which should scare them off. Well if it were my MIL it probably would but for us mortals I would think it would be as much use as a chocolate teapot, stupid man. [:@]

[woolybanana]

There should be an presumption in law that one is put in fear of ones life by anyone entering ones home with intent to commit crime, and that one has an absolute right to defend oneself, up to killing!

 

[pachapapa]

Difficult one; never been burgled.

Once in Zambia disturbed burglary in the property next door by sitting in my Peugeot 403 vanette and blasting the horn; as the burglars approached the vanette I backed off to keep a distance, eventually one took out a gun and managed to get a couple of shots riccochet off the bonnet. He wasn't so lucky with the third as at that moment I hit him in second gear with full accelerator, both nearside wheels went over him. When I returned with a couple of zambian cops with 303s the three burglars had disappeared.

The neighbours, a dutck couple were tied to the kitchen table chairs and a bit shocked.

[woolybanana]

well, in Africa it is different!!

 

[Rabbie]

The legal position in the UK is that you can only use reasonable and proportionate force if you are threatened. As most burglars are probably younger and fitter than most forum members I would advise them not to start something you can't finish. After all, most possessions are replaceable with insurance moneywhile physical injury may be irreversible.

[woolybanana]

I have faith in my assegai!

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

well, in Africa it is different!!

 

[/quote]

Not sure what you mean!

Perhaps that "open season" for Zairians was 12 months of the year with tacit annual renewal.[:D]

[woolybanana]

you have been there, then[:D]

[idun]

double post, sorry

[idun]

[quote user="Rabbie"]The legal position in the UK is that you can only use reasonable and proportionate force if you are threatened. As most burglars are probably younger and fitter than most forum members I would advise them not to start something you can't finish. After all, most possessions are replaceable with insurance moneywhile physical injury may be irreversible.[/quote]

 

Well the law stinks, let the criminals have the rights.

So what if you know someone is coming to get you, to hurt you, maybe worse, what then?  The police know and say IF someone comes, call them and they'll come immediately. They cannot do anything until there is a crime and you know that they cannot there 'instantly'. Just what would you do finding yourself in that situation???????????

[nomoss]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

I have faith in my assegai!

 

[/quote]

But if your reactions were no longer fast enough you might find yourself kissing your assegai goodbye [:D]

I once thought I was still fast enough to take a knife away. Unfortunately I was wrong and took it through my arm instead.

[sueyh]

I think my Rhodesian Ridgeback puts anyone off entering my property and if she didn't the Border Collie and Pedigree Heinz would.  Well they'd probably lick them to death anyway""

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="Quillan"]I can't remember the names of those involved but when that farmer, Martin was it, shot the bloke in the leg and got sent to prison they interviewed the Chief Constable for that region who said that when faced with a person who is burgling your home and/or threatening violence towards you or your family you shout shout at them as loud as you can which should scare them off. Well if it were my MIL it probably would but for us mortals I would think it would be as much use as a chocolate teapot, stupid man. [:@][/quote]

Mr Martin, who was banned from owning firearms, shot an intruder four times in the back with a shotgun of a type not legal in the UK. The case was not one of simply defending one's property, it was far more complex. A jury, who heard all the evidence, convicted him of murder. This was later reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of his mental condition. Few people who actually knew him shared the Daily Mail's heroic view of him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/tony-martin-the-harmless-eccentric-whose-obsession-made-him-a-killer-721200.html

[sid]

[quote user="Clarkkent"]

[quote user="Quillan"]I can't remember the names of those involved but when that farmer, Martin was it, shot the bloke in the leg and got sent to prison they interviewed the Chief Constable for that region who said that when faced with a person who is burgling your home and/or threatening violence towards you or your family you shout shout at them as loud as you can which should scare them off. Well if it were my MIL it probably would but for us mortals I would think it would be as much use as a chocolate teapot, stupid man. [:@][/quote]

Mr Martin, who was banned from owning firearms, shot an intruder four times in the back with a shotgun of a type not legal in the UK. The case was not one of simply defending one's property, it was far more complex. A jury, who heard all the evidence, convicted him of murder. This was later reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of his mental condition. Few people who actually knew him shared the Daily Mail's heroic view of him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/tony-martin-the-harmless-eccentric-whose-obsession-made-him-a-killer-721200.html

[/quote]

Thanks for the summary, it's certainly given me new insight; I know now that the burglars are just misguided and I shouldn't worry if I find one in my house; he's only trying to earn a crust. [blink]

Get real! Chop their bl00dy hands off!

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="sid"][quote user="Clarkkent"]

[quote user="Quillan"]I can't remember the names of those involved but when that farmer, Martin was it, shot the bloke in the leg and got sent to prison they interviewed the Chief Constable for that region who said that when faced with a person who is burgling your home and/or threatening violence towards you or your family you shout shout at them as loud as you can which should scare them off. Well if it were my MIL it probably would but for us mortals I would think it would be as much use as a chocolate teapot, stupid man. [:@][/quote]

Mr Martin, who was banned from owning firearms, shot an intruder four times in the back with a shotgun of a type not legal in the UK. The case was not one of simply defending one's property, it was far more complex. A jury, who heard all the evidence, convicted him of murder. This was later reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of his mental condition. Few people who actually knew him shared the Daily Mail's heroic view of him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/tony-martin-the-harmless-eccentric-whose-obsession-made-him-a-killer-721200.html

[/quote]

Thanks for the summary, it's certainly given me new insight; I know now that the burglars are just misguided and I shouldn't worry if I find one in my house; he's only trying to earn a crust. [blink]

Get real! Chop their bl00dy hands off!

[/quote]

I think it is you who should get real. You are clearly an admirer of Sharia Law, perhaps you would like to live in Saudi Arabia?

I have no time for burglars and I support the right of houseowners to defend themselves and their property against intruders. I am, however, fed up with people who consider Tony Martin to be some kind of folk hero. He wasn't.

[opas]

I was in my house , in bed at 11 oclock at night, 2 little girls sleeping in the next beedroom. I heard some banging and at first thought it was my neighbour trying to close his outside shed door. After a few momments i realised that it was someone banging at my patio doors in the kitchen down stairs at the back of the house, my heart was banging too I can tell you! I did not have a phone next to the bed , so had to go downstairs to use the hall phone, all this time this person is trying to jemmy my patio door and I was only a room away.........the police station was at the bottom of my road so hoped on a rapid response but obviously the call goes to central switch, I then ran back upstairs and got my camera, should this person enter my house i would photo him/her , sounds daft but logic at the time; I then went into the childrens bedroom and closed tthe door, this room was at the front of the house so I could see trafic coming and going, then the police were here, flashing lights and all! so the attemted burgler jumps over the back fence and is away on his toes, brilliant!

Looking back now I should have filled a bucket with hot water from the bathroom and chucked it over him, but to be honest I was terrified, and heaven knows what i would have done to him if he had got in........nothing? or the other extreme?

You do not know how you would react untill you are faced with the situation!

[Hoddy]

I'm absolutely with ClarkKent on the subject of Tony Martin. At around the same time, near to where I lived at the time and completely unpublicised, a man went into his kitchen and was confronted by a burglar, a struggle ensued in which the intruder was killed.

No charges were ever brought against the householder.

The effect on him though was absolutely devastating. he ran his own small and successful business which he was simply unable to carry on. He and his wife put the house up for sale and found that it was difficult to sell because of what had happened in kitchen. I don't know what eventually became of him although it's clear it had a major effect on his life.

Killing an intruder is not necessarily a complete win.

Hoddy

[Clarkkent]

Opas

I like the idea of hot water - I have thought of this if ever I were to find myself in this situation.

Or better still, a bucket filled with substances discussed at length in another current thread ...

[pachapapa]

In the early 60s a bunch of us gold miners rented a house in a run down area of Springs in the Eastern Transvaal; the house served as a base for anyone from the Free State or Evander Gold Fields visiting the Rand, particularly busy at the weekend. You get the picture.

Hot night with windows open and disturbed by a burglar stealthily checking the joint. All hell broke loose with the potential burglar chased down the road with accompanying pot-shots.

Eventually the SAP rolled up for a statement fairly quick as nothing had gone.

The sergeant advised us that we had acted incorrectly in causing a hulabaloo and disturbing the neighbourhood; in future the burglar should be shot dead with several shots placed as well in the room to conclusively prove that the unfortunate death had occurred during the struggle when attacked by the burglar.

Never forgotten the advice.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="idun"]

[quote user="Rabbie"]The legal position in the UK is that you can only use reasonable and proportionate force if you are threatened. As most burglars are probably younger and fitter than most forum members I would advise them not to start something you can't finish. After all, most possessions are replaceable with insurance moneywhile physical injury may be irreversible.[/quote]

 

Well the law stinks, let the criminals have the rights.

So what if you know someone is coming to get you, to hurt you, maybe worse, what then?  The police know and say IF someone comes, call them and they'll come immediately. They cannot do anything until there is a crime and you know that they cannot there 'instantly'. Just what would you do finding yourself in that situation???????????

[/quote]I agree the law isn't perfect. However it is a lot better than vigilanteism(spelling?). Once we descend into a situation where people take the law into their own hands then we rapidly have a situation where Might becomes Right which as I get older is even less appealing.

In reply to your final question I don't know what I would do. However I do not make enemies that would be coming to get me or hurt me. If I had intruders they would most likely be coming to steal possessions not specifically to injure me. As we have a fairly long drive my probable response would be to block the escape route and call the police.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Clarkkent"]

[quote user="Quillan"]I can't remember the names of those involved but when that farmer, Martin was it, shot the bloke in the leg and got sent to prison they interviewed the Chief Constable for that region who said that when faced with a person who is burgling your home and/or threatening violence towards you or your family you shout shout at them as loud as you can which should scare them off. Well if it were my MIL it probably would but for us mortals I would think it would be as much use as a chocolate teapot, stupid man. [:@][/quote]

Mr Martin, who was banned from owning firearms, shot an intruder four times in the back with a shotgun of a type not legal in the UK. The case was not one of simply defending one's property, it was far more complex. A jury, who heard all the evidence, convicted him of murder. This was later reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of his mental condition. Few people who actually knew him shared the Daily Mail's heroic view of him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/tony-martin-the-harmless-eccentric-whose-obsession-made-him-a-killer-721200.html

[/quote]

I am not so concerned about Martin but more the comments by the Chief Constable about shouting at an armed burgler to scare him/her off, like thats really going to work. [:)]