Bankers: Cameron shows his true colours

[YCCMB]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else who has commented, but I am NOT an expat living in France and if UKIP or their policies are voted through in any shape or form then I, for one, would be surprised, disappointed and probably quite keen to ship out. There IS, ALREADY, less immigration than a while back, in fact net migration has been falling for quite some considerable time. If it's such a problem to people like ebaynut, and as endemic as they suggest, then it does seem strange that s/he claims not to know a single immigrant.

What's very worrying is that there are so many people (not especially on this thread) who do live in France, and yet who still have a UK vote and who - if the expat forums can be taken as a straw poll - seem to be UKIP supporters. And if it were to be the vote of people who aren't going to have to live with the consequences that returned even a single UKIP MP to parliament, I'd be more than a tiny bit miffed.

The only small consolation that I take is that UKIP generally seem to do about as well (if not worse) than the BNP when it comes to a general election. Long may that situation continue.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="ebaynut"]

Do you actually personally know any recent immigrants who are on the dole ? Most I know seem to have come here to work and get on, not struggle...

---

Happily I don't know any immigrant, on the dole or otherwise.

 Anyway, what has claiming benefits got to do with anything?

The UK is overcrowded, we do not need anyone else entering thank you, working or not.

[/quote]

Here you go again believing the rubbish that UKIP puts out. Try a bit of research of your own, you might actually be surprised to know that the comment is quite incorrect. Out of the 128 recognised countries in the world the UK rates 51st in the number of people per square kilometer. In Europe Holland, Belgium and France have higher densities.

[/quote]

As France has a similar population to the UK and is roughly twice as large its population density must be considerably less.

This website lists countries by population density and their figures are comparable with those in Wikipedia so I don't doubt itsaccuracy.

Otherwise I agree with the rest of your comments.

[NickP]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Well, I can't speak for anyone else who has commented, but I am NOT an expat living in France and if UKIP or their policies are voted through in any shape or form then I, for one, would be surprised, disappointed and probably quite keen to ship out. There IS, ALREADY, less immigration than a while back, in fact net migration has been falling for quite some considerable time. If it's such a problem to people like ebaynut, and as endemic as they suggest, then it does seem strange that s/he claims not to know a single immigrant.
What's very worrying is that there are so many people (not especially on this thread) who do live in France, and yet who still have a UK vote and who - if the expat forums can be taken as a straw poll - seem to be UKIP supporters. And if it were to be the vote of people who aren't going to have to live with the consequences that returned even a single UKIP MP to parliament, I'd be more than a tiny bit miffed.

The only small consolation that I take is that UKIP generally seem to do about as well (if not worse) than the BNP when it comes to a general election. Long may that situation continue.
[/quote]

 Well I'm not an Ex-pat living in France either just a lowly holiday home owner, and who I vote for is my business, but I vote to try and influence what happens in my neck of the woods, not what happens in another country. And if immigration is lower now; then maybe  the populations wishes are being listened to. My take on ex-pat votes is well documented, the minute they leave the UK to my mind a resounding NO. If the country they choose to live in will not give them a vote' tough, they knew that before they arrived. What you are ignoring Betty is that in a democracy the voters decide, and although it's not my choice, we have to put up with call me Dave and his puppet, maybe the voters might just change that pretty soon. We or myself that is can only hope? [:D]

[ebaynut]

Never felt the urge to keep sheep?

 

I could be tempted now you mention it,   [Www]     Have you some you could spare???

[woolybanana]

My Welsh neighbours are due down in a few days and they always bring a couple of nice ewes for relaxation. I'll see if they could pass you one - they are very generous.

[ebaynut]

Betty wrote,

If it's such a problem to people like ebaynut, and as endemic as they suggest, then it does seem strange that s/he claims not to know a single immigrant.

I did not say I never see any immigrants unfortunately, just I don't know any.

 

But here is my problem. I live about six miles from a rural market town, over the last twenty five years, that town has grown with new housing all around.

Luckily, the price of the houses in the area keeps immigrants down to a minimum, but these new houses get sold to people ( mainly white English) moving out from the large cities and towns due to overcrowding as more houses are turned into homes of multiple occupancy for people who will live in such 5hit conditions. Guess who they are????

So more of MY green and pleasant land where I choose to live gets covered in concrete for the escapees and their Tesco's etc, parking and traffic increases and what was a quite backwater is turning into a major town. Progress some may say, hell I would say.

These people do not really wish to live in the country, they are not country people,but cant afford to stay in town, so we get them wanting their street lighting, white lined car parks, McDonalds and all the other things they are used to. 

I feel for them, turned from their home area, but at least this is a good point of conversation where we agree.

Luckily I live in a very isolated area, so it does not bother me too much until I have to go into town for something, then the change really hits you.

 

[Russethouse]

But its not the immigrants causing the problem, its the people choosing to move out. And since you don't actually know any of these immigrants how do you actually know they live in such dreadful conditions ?

Of course if we didn't have immigrants to pay tax, who would pay your pension ?

[Quillan]

Thank you for your explanation but it leaves me somewhat confused.

Your local town has grown just as towns do and as it grows new houses are built. People from cities and bigger towns were housing is more expensive are moving in to them as they are cheaper which personally I doubt is the reason.

Some of the bigger houses these people sell to move to the new houses are divided up in to multiple units due to developers wanting to make money renting them out and some of their tenants are immigrants although is some towns and cities I suspect many are students.

You claim that these multiple units are very bad, how do you know? There may well be a few but you can't say they all are as there are very strict regulations on multiple occupancy accommodation and they are regularly checked by the local council and health and safety for fire risk etc.

As, in your own words,  the people moving in to the new homes near your local town are "mainly white English" I am at a loss to understand how curbing immigration will change anything for you hence I can't see why you should hold immigrants directly responsible for the construction of your local Tesco's and McDonald's.

The impression I get is that this is really nothing to do with immigration policy nor the UK being a member of the EU it's simple migration around the UK which always happens as people get older and move out of cities because they can afford to commute and want a better environment for their children or retirement.

What you personally don't like is your town changing and seem to be looking around for somebody to blame for something that happens quite naturally and that 'Johnny Foreigner' in your mind seems to be the best bet even if it is nothing to do with him or her.

Never mind that's life and no political party can change that for you. But just stop and think that things could be a lot worse for you. You could wake up tomorrow and find a black, Romanian, homosexual transvestite and his 'wife' have moved in as neighbours. [:D]

[mint]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Never mind that's life and no political party can change that for you. But just stop and think that things could be a lot worse for you. You could wake up tomorrow and find a black, Romanian, homosexual transvestite and his 'wife' have moved in as neighbours. [:D]

[/quote]

Hey, Q, you've forgotten their dozen or so children and their 2 lurcher dogs?

I wish people would tell it as it is.......

[ebaynut]

Never mind that's life and no political party can change that for you. But just stop and think that things could be a lot worse for you. You could wake up tomorrow and find a black, Romanian, homosexual transvestite and his 'wife' have moved in as neighbours.

 

Well my nearest neighbour one side is the Church which is about half a mile away, also think of the fun my two German Shepherds, Adolf and Hess would have with them.  [:D]

[ebaynut]

But its not the immigrants causing the problem, its the people choosing to move out. And since you don't actually know any of these immigrants how do you actually know they live in such dreadful conditions ?

Of course if we didn't have immigrants to pay tax, who would pay your pension ?

---

But the people are moving out of the cities BECAUSE of the immigrants and overcrowding.

I don't receive a pension yet, I am not of that age. But I have worked hard in my younger years and have a nice portfolio of rental properties, of which I choose my tenants very carefully, ( I am sure you know what I mean by that) now nearly all paid for which will provide me with an income far in excess of any Pi55 poor amount this or any future government may deem to hand out.

[Russethouse]

But that is their choice....

I know of an immigrant family here the oldest son has a portfolio of 60 buy to let properties, while the others have successful careers

Their father worked really hard to give his children a good future, they in turn contribute to UK society just like everyone else, what's the problem?

[Rabbie]

What's the problem with immigrants coming here? After all many forum members are immigrants to France. In my case Mrs Rabbie is an immigrant from Sweden. I have been an immigrant in Sweden. Lets face it there were no people in Britain during the last ice age so we are all immigrants just that some us came earlier than others

[ebaynut]

Their father worked really hard to give his children a good future, they in turn contribute to UK society just like everyone else, what's the problem?

 

If you need to ask that question I feel it would be pointless for me to try to explain to you the answer.

If they are such good hard workers, why did they choose to come to my country and not stay in their own and make a success of their lives there??

 

[Rabbie]

[quote user="ebaynut"]

Their father worked really hard to give his children a good future, they in turn contribute to UK society just like everyone else, what's the problem?

 

If you need to ask that question I feel it would be pointless for me to try to explain to you the answer.

If they are such good hard workers, why did they choose to come to my country and not stay in their own and make a success of their lives there??

 

[/quote]People move countries for many reasons. These  may include the culture, the cuisine, the climate, the political climat. the list is endless. My son-in-law's parents moved from Germany in the late 1930's for obvious reasons. The fact he was born and grown up here makes him as english as any one else even if he supports Arsenal[:)].

So don't be so judgemental.

[YCCMB]

Ah, it's funny how - whether in England or France - you can live in the same country and yet wonder whether you do, in fact, live in the same country.

I count my blessings. My idea of purgatory would be to have to move out of town into a developing area. As things stand, we're in the throes of moving closer to the metropolis. Went on a house hunting recce today. No HMO's on offer, but houses seem to be selling in about 2 weeks from first listing....

[Russethouse]

As I have mentioned many times my mothers carer is Bulgarian, she uses her wages to buy goods here, including food, to send back to her mother and her niece as she tells me that many people in Bulgaria are very poor. There are just not the same opportunities in her native country as there are in the UK.

She is here to improve her lot, just as many British people emigrate to improve theirs.

As for people moving out to the countryside isn't that mis named 'white flight'?

A lady on QT explained how she and her brother were born in London but her brother has chosen to move out first to the suburbs and then to the countryside because he preferred that way of life. The lady was Diane Abbot !

[Quillan]

[quote user="ebaynut"]

Their father worked really hard to give his children a good future, they in turn contribute to UK society just like everyone else, what's the problem?

If you need to ask that question I feel it would be pointless for me to try to explain to you the answer.

[/quote]

I would like you to explain further.

[quote user="ebaynut"]

If they are such good hard workers, why did they choose to come to my country and not stay in their own and make a success of their lives there??

[/quote]

Because many were enticed to come o the UK to take jobs that either nobody wanted or there were not enough people to do the jobs. Others came from ex colonies or were refugees. Bradford is a prime example of the UK 'importing' people to work in the mills. Many of the lower paid manual jobs in the NHS are taken by immigrants because work like cleaning floors and emptying bed pans is a bit beneath the average "white English" person. If you look at the history of London it has always been a centre for immigrants for hundreds of years. As you said the houses that were built near your town are full of "white English", perhaps the immigrants don't buy them because there is no work even if the house prices are lower than the big towns and cities.

[YCCMB]

Or maybe the immigrants are also choosy about who they want for neighbours.

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Because many were enticed to come o the UK to take jobs that either nobody wanted or there were not enough people to do the jobs. Others came from ex colonies or were refugees. Bradford is a prime example of the UK 'importing' people to work in the mills. Many of the lower paid manual jobs in the NHS are taken by immigrants because work like cleaning floors and emptying bed pans is a bit beneath the average "white English" person. If you look at the history of London it has always been a centre for immigrants for hundreds of years. As you said the houses that were built near your town are full of "white English", perhaps the immigrants don't buy them because there is no work even if the house prices are lower than the big towns and cities.

[/quote] Bit of stereotyping there Q, been reading the Sun and the Mail again, also possibly racist? or are we not talking about the rest of the British population. It's incredible how; when someone says immigration to the UK should slow down,  the late night posters, probably into their second bottle of local collapso take umbrage and accuse people of wanting to ban all immigration. We are aware and acknowledge that countries need a certain amount of immigrants, I just wonder why the UK isn't a bit more choosy like Australia, Canada etc. That way the country gets trained and educated people who add something to society. By the way Q my wife who is a retired SRN spent many years emptying bed pans, she never thought of it as "being a bit beneath her" and she is white English born, her retort to your comment is unprintable on this forum, but did contain Anglo Saxon words, six in fact;  the first being tell, the third four letters and the last off. [:D]

[YCCMB]

[quote user="NickP"] It's incredible how; when someone says immigration to the UK should slow down,  the late night posters, probably into their second bottle of local collapso take umbrage and accuse people of wanting to ban all immigration. [/quote]

Not me either. I don't drink. Although I did have half a glass of champagne last night. Which was neither local nor collapso.[:D] I just keep saying that immigration has already slowed down.

One thing that is quite interesting is that, with the exception of a significant influx of people from Spain and Greece, (who have as much right to come to the UK as all those UK nationals who have moved to France, let's not forget) there are fewer migrants wanting to come to the UK. I do think that those who still believe that people in other countries see the UK as the only place to migrate to are overlooking the fact that we're no longer the first choice for many, because they can do better elsewhere. And often the UK is a bit of a staging post for young professionals wanting to knock their English skills into shape before taking their other skills off to Canada or Australia.

[Quillan]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"]

Because many were enticed to come o the UK to take jobs that either nobody wanted or there were not enough people to do the jobs. Others came from ex colonies or were refugees. Bradford is a prime example of the UK 'importing' people to work in the mills. Many of the lower paid manual jobs in the NHS are taken by immigrants because work like cleaning floors and emptying bed pans is a bit beneath the average "white English" person. If you look at the history of London it has always been a centre for immigrants for hundreds of years. As you said the houses that were built near your town are full of "white English", perhaps the immigrants don't buy them because there is no work even if the house prices are lower than the big towns and cities.

[/quote] Bit of stereotyping there Q, been reading the Sun and the Mail again, also possibly racist? or are we not talking about the rest of the British population. It's incredible how; when someone says immigration to the UK should slow down,  the late night posters, probably into their second bottle of local collapso take umbrage and accuse people of wanting to ban all immigration. We are aware and acknowledge that countries need a certain amount of immigrants, I just wonder why the UK isn't a bit more choosy like Australia, Canada etc. That way the country gets trained and educated people who add something to society. By the way Q my wife who is a retired SRN spent many years emptying bed pans, she never thought of it as "being a bit beneath her" and she is white English born, her retort to your comment is unprintable on this forum, but did contain Anglo Saxon words, six in fact;  the first being tell, the third four letters and the last off. [:D][/quote]

I agree there is no need to 'slow down' immigration in to the UK, it is happening of its own accord.

I don't have to read papers to know what is happening in some English hospitals as I have experienced some of these things first hand. I have also listened to recordings of interviews with nurses from all over the UK and some of them leave you speechless. I am sure that there are nurses, SRN and otherwise, that don't have a problem but many do and they are very racist in their attitude towards the staff who clean, empty bed pans etc. Likewise there are still some nurses around that see nursing as a vocation rather than just a job like any other which many now do.

The UK is choosy, some job skills are 'fast tracked' in to the UK, certainly IT staff are and there are many others like doctors and nurses for instance.

[Quillan]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="NickP"] It's incredible how; when someone says immigration to the UK should slow down,  the late night posters, probably into their second bottle of local collapso take umbrage and accuse people of wanting to ban all immigration. [/quote]

Not me either. I don't drink. Although I did have half a glass of champagne last night. Which was neither local nor collapso.[:D] I just keep saying that immigration has already slowed down.

One thing that is quite interesting is that, with the exception of a significant influx of people from Spain and Greece, (who have as much right to come to the UK as all those UK nationals who have moved to France, let's not forget) there are fewer migrants wanting to come to the UK. I do think that those who still believe that people in other countries see the UK as the only place to migrate to are overlooking the fact that we're no longer the first choice for many, because they can do better elsewhere. And often the UK is a bit of a staging post for young professionals wanting to knock their English skills into shape before taking their other skills off to Canada or Australia.
[/quote]

You forgot the French. What was the estimate some while back, 400,000 of them and all beavering away mainly in the financial sector.

I forgot to add to my other post that as far as I know Coke (the drink) has no alcohol in it at all.

[YCCMB]

I didn't really "forget" them, Quillan, they just weren't relevant to the point I was making. If the discussion is (whether erroneously or otherwise) focusing on increased migration to the UK, I was pointing out that the only significant increase in the recent past is from countries like Spain and Greece. Which is understandable given their current problems and the fact that unemployment levels are incredibly high. Most of the French who come do so as a lifestyle choice. IMO, anyway. And I've met, known and worked with several dozen of them.

[Benjamin]

I am deeply disturbed by the attitude of some posters to immigrants which, to be brutally frank, are more rooted in the UK of the 60s, 70s and 80s. I grew up near to Wolverhampton as a teenager and young man and I worked in Wolverhampton for a time. Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech in April 1968 set the tone but my opinions were formed, erroneously as it happens, from listening to white people around me.

Over the years and watching the immigrant population grow out of their initial environment and begin to integrate into their surroundings (be it housing, jobs or outward lifestyles) I gradually realised that my opinions were wrong. I am pleased to say that it's been a pleasure to have them changed.

I liken it now to how, since returning to live in the UK almost three years ago, we have, and continue to, adjusted our opinions of the younger generation.

Grow up. Get a Life and move on but don't blame immigrants for all the country's woes.