Quillan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I bought mine from the same source on Ebay that Chancer got his (its in a post here somewhere) and I have had absolutely no problems or failures. Indeed I am a very happy customer. Actually a 10 to 15% failure rate for an electronic component is quite high, it should be around 1 to 8 % at worse.One thing I noticed by the way is the 'blue' light ones must have a 'temperature' pretty close to natural light. I mention this because if I take photo's in my kitchen at night and don't use a flash the pictures come out as if I had taken them in sunlight outside during the day. Before the always had that sort of orangy, brownish colour without the flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 One of the biggest advantages that I have found with them is that they produce light, not heat. Well most of it anyway!! This has allowed me to do something that I have wanted to do for years and that is to turn and make my own angle poise lamps from wood! I now have one lighting as I trype and below it is a rack that holds a couple of external HDDs and one that stands about 6 foot high when stretched straight up, but helps light our lounge with a lovely soft light, or when we are reading is there just over the shoulder to do so in complete comfort. I had never found anything before that fit that bill. If you wish, I will show you what they are like and if asked I would make similar for you, BUT it would not be cheap [8-|] No, I ain't trying to sell any. It's my hobby and I loved the challenge of the design and making it work.But without led lights I would not have been able to do this. I love them. If you think that anyone is trying to 'force' anyone into buying them, then they must have some kind of doubt somewhere me-thinks [blink]Oh stuff it! This is the one with the HDD rack. It has been n here before. It wouldn't have been possible to turn the shade as small as I wanted it if the light source had got hot and even after hours of on the shade is just above blood heat, in fact 38ºC according to our 'pointy, squirty, laser, temp thingy'[URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/Anglepoise2_zpsb9e74ef5.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Anglepoise2_zpsb9e74ef5.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 It's not so much as what it should be but at that price range components are spec'd to be cheap but on the whole not a bad deal. My only concern is buying light fittings which are not fire rated. I's not because the low power lamps will catch fire but if a fire occurs the spread is so much faster with holes in the ceilings. You can buy fire hoods to go over the lights in the ceiling void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Here you are, Mr Teapot. From a rather extensive range of lightbulbs (not fittings) at John Lewis:http://www.johnlewis.com/calex-4w-es-led-g125-filament-bulb-clear/p1499219 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 25 UK beer tokens and a life of only 5000 hrs [:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote user="Théière"]It's not so much as what it should be but at that price range components are spec'd to be cheap but on the whole not a bad deal. My only concern is buying light fittings which are not fire rated. I's not because the low power lamps will catch fire but if a fire occurs the spread is so much faster with holes in the ceilings. You can buy fire hoods to go over the lights in the ceiling void.[/quote]As Doctor Jung might have said, T, synchronicity: I have been recently evaluating various LED light source products such as these.The core problem with the cheap Chinese LED bulbs is apparently low specification components (particularly Cs) which can burst into flames.And components "drifting" away from stated values significantly.Making an LED mains lamp is not difficult and only requires an Electrolytic C and chunky R, feeding into a diode bridge and another C for smoothing plus the all important R to limit the current the LED draws. Too much current and the LED goes bang!See Here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote user="Jonzjob"]25 UK beer tokens and a life of only 5000 hrs [:-))][/quote]Precisely why I bought elsewhere for less than half that price, Mr Job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote user="Théière"]Mint, you need sparkly white LED for your chandeliers. Tested a good numbers of these, My favorite were this type. My friends closed their company last year so my supply of top quality ones has stopped but even the cheaper ones (just buy some more as spares) are probably ok. I have to get some for myself soon but can't remember which base they have, small edison screw or large, or were they small bayonet or large. [/quote]Teapot, I have had problems with either Firefox or the Forum and haven't been able to come here to thank you.YES, I have seen bulbs like that and I do believe they'll look very nice chez moi.I have today written to the man who is going to do my dressing and I have told him the sort of lights I shall be putting up. Going to have to position the ceiling light carefully in case OH pulls a jumper over his head and pulls the light down at the same time![:-))]I am less likely to do the same being rather of shorter stature than OH![:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Whilst I still dont agree with the previous ban on incandescent lamps I am all for the banning of halogen bulbs.Their only merit was that the GU10 halogen allowed the introduction of ceiling downlighters, but they ran very hot, were and are frequently the cause of fires and blow far more often than incandescents ever did, now that there is an energy efficient, practical and low cost alternative in LED GU10's they should be banned IMO.The worse thing was with te banning of incandescent bulbs the shelves became full of halogen ES and BC replacements masquerading as energy saving which would blow jmuch more often than their predecessors and were never sold at the low prices of the incandescents, I think the manufacturers made a lot of hay while the sun was shining.Compact flourescents never lived up to their promises, I used to manufacture them in the early 90's, they are better than then but still woefull and I think with the current LED offerings, which are still improving they have reached the end of their life cycle.There is still a place I believe for flourescent strip lights but I think there may even be LED replacements for them, or maybe I dreamed it.What am I going to do with the 200, 300 and 500 watt halogen floodlight bulbs that I have in stock [8-)] A decade ago I recieved an unsolicited 2D flourescent worklight in a Screwfix order, they didnt want it back and I have never used a halogen worklight since then.And for those of you that still refuse to move with the world, remember that it was a halogen bulb that caused the fire at Windsor Castle and put up the insurance premiums of trades like mine thereafter, if LED's had been invented earlier and if incandescents hadnt been banned we would never have had halogen bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 No mint, the board has not been working in any way properly, that is all, hard to get on, and then even if we could, we couldn't tell if posts were being posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote user="mint"][quote user="Théière"]Mint, you need sparkly white LED for your chandeliers. Tested a good numbers of these, My favorite were this type. My friends closed their company last year so my supply of top quality ones has stopped but even the cheaper ones (just buy some more as spares) are probably ok. I have to get some for myself soon but can't remember which base they have, small edison screw or large, or were they small bayonet or large. [/quote]Teapot, I have had problems with either Firefox or the Forum and haven't been able to come here to thank you.YES, I have seen bulbs like that and I do believe they'll look very nice chez moi.I have today written to the man who is going to do my dressing and I have told him the sort of lights I shall be putting up. Going to have to position the ceiling light carefully in case OH pulls a jumper over his head and pulls the light down at the same time![:-))]I am less likely to do the same being rather of shorter stature than OH![:)] [/quote]Be careful Mint, there are lots on offer and some have silly looking bit's of glass things in the middle and these are all terrible by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote user="Chancer"]Whilst I still dont agree with the previous ban on incandescent lamps I am all for the banning of halogen bulbs.Their only merit was that the GU10 halogen allowed the introduction of ceiling downlighters, but they ran very hot, were and are frequently the cause of fires and blow far more often than incandescents ever did, now that there is an energy efficient, practical and low cost alternative in LED GU10's they should be banned IMO. GU10/MR16 Downlighters are pretty crap too, one 50w halogen vs one 60w incandescent which could light up an entire room.The worse thing was with te banning of incandescent bulbs the shelves became full of halogen ES and BC replacements masquerading as energy saving which would blow jmuch more often than their predecessors and were never sold at the low prices of the incandescents, I think the manufacturers made a lot of hay while the sun was shining. The Philips company set up a new factory to produce incandescent s before they were banned, hardly in the spirit of the exercise. Compact flourescents never lived up to their promises, I used to manufacture them in the early 90's, they are better than then but still woefull and I think with the current LED offerings, which are still improving they have reached the end of their life cycle.There is still a place I believe for flourescent strip lights but I think there may even be LED replacements for them, or maybe I dreamed it.Absolutely not, florescent tubes should be banned too as it's not just the tube but the ballast that uses electricity, new electronic ballasts fail frequently and take out the tubes with them sometimes and the older versions frequently consume 120w for a 58w tube. I have been fitting LED replacements for florescent tubes since 2012, old ones weren't much cop, new ones much much better, even Lidl's are not bad but I have better of course but not for the price.What am I going to do with the 200, 300 and 500 watt halogen floodlight bulbs that I have in stock [8-)] A decade ago I recieved an unsolicited 2D flourescent worklight in a Screwfix order, they didnt want it back and I have never used a halogen worklight since then. Me too but I use the Thorsen Goliath work lamp 55w And for those of you that still refuse to move with the world, remember that it was a halogen bulb that caused the fire at Windsor Castle and put up the insurance premiums of trades like mine thereafter, if LED's had been invented earlier and if incandescents hadnt been banned we would never have had halogen bulbs.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="Théière"]It's not so much as what it should be but at that price range components are spec'd to be cheap but on the whole not a bad deal. My only concern is buying light fittings which are not fire rated. I's not because the low power lamps will catch fire but if a fire occurs the spread is so much faster with holes in the ceilings. You can buy fire hoods to go over the lights in the ceiling void.[/quote]As Doctor Jung might have said, T, synchronicity: I have been recently evaluating various LED light source products such as these.The core problem with the cheap Chinese LED bulbs is apparently low specification components (particularly Cs) which can burst into flames.And components "drifting" away from stated values significantly.Making an LED mains lamp is not difficult and only requires an Electrolytic C and chunky R, feeding into a diode bridge and another C for smoothing plus the all important R to limit the current the LED draws. Too much current and the LED goes bang!See Here:[/quote]I agree Gluey, but the components used in cheap ones are often low grade and with anything like this the heat cannot be dissipated easily with GU10's so MR16's with the low voltage allow the use of larger remote drivers which cool better. I have repared some GU10's with new parts as the LED chips sometimes survive. A floodlight for a carpark with a 100w LED lamp should run at 36v but the driver drifted the voltage to 42v and took the lot out, still I replaced the LED chip and driver parts and it's back up and runningCheap LED's are usually working harder to get the lumen output up at the expense of a long life, whereas the longer lasting ones are turned down a bit but the current batches are now nearer to 150 lumens per watt which is outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I have 8 of the suspended ceiling tile flourescent units (4 by 18 watt tubes) running on my ground and first floors while I am working, thats 576 watts [:-))] but my tired old eyes need it, when I have checked the consumption on my new whizzy electric meter it has added about that much when I turn the lights on, you had me worried with the 120 watts for a 50 watt tube. I will check it gain tomorrow, my next job is to fit all the downlighters to all the rooms on the first floor, the flouro units are temporary work lights, it will be interesting to see what the reduction in wattage will be.My calcs tell me that the Leds will use more current than the flourescents but now all the cloisons are up some rooms are not illuminated at all and with the downlighters I will be able to illuminate only the rooms that I am working in and not the whole floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Haveing just read about over half a million in number batch recalls of LED bulbs in the USA by big companies and risk of fires from them together with all the warmings of where NOT to use them and big problems from people who have made the change over as in the link below . I will be happy to continue paying for my wind generated electricity even though the bill may be a bit higher living without LED's https://banledlighting.wordpress.com/page/2/Recent posts peoples experiences with them in the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote user="Frederick"]Haveing just read about over half a million in number batch recalls of LED bulbs in the USA by big companies and risk of fires from them together with all the warmings of where NOT to use them and big problems from people who have made the change over as in the link below . I will be happy to continue paying for my wind generated electricity even though the bill may be a bit higher living without LED's https://banledlighting.wordpress.com/page/2/Recent posts peoples experiences with them in the link[/quote]Sadly written back in 2008 and technology has moved on considerably since. They use, as so many US reports inconsistencies just to colour up their writing.We as adults rather than the Americans don't have to light everything so I will not take on board that some architects fully light up building for the sake of it, that is down to local arrangements to police and I don't agree with the idea as i didn't agree with it in non LED buildings, that is nothing to do with the LED technology.The use of more metals (except of course the tungsten filament? why except? it's part of the lamp it is included you can't make up a story and cut out the parts you want to suit the argument you are trying to put over.The amount of metal used in LED's is very very small compared to incandescent s and zinc isn't used to protect stainless steel because that's why they use stainless steel in the first place. Powerpack in the bottom, that as Gluey explained is a resistor and capacitor so nothing to be frightened of there that's just preying on the readers lack of understanding likewise they get so hot they need fans and that's extra power, Yes the big guns of the LED world do have heat sinks and fans but the fans are so low powered compared the the overall power of the discharge type lamps they replace and the extra heat from those as Chancer said can cause fires (Windsor Castle) and cause failures of the fittings, even when ceramic fittings are used.Now LED's like other things come with instructions and if it says remove the starter then that's what needs to be done, if that's too complicated then get a sparky to do it for you it will only need doing once. If you get hold of a tube by the connecting prongs yes you'll get a shock but the starter in non LED tubes is supplying around 1000v so the shock will be felt quite a bit more. Not all Countries have the same safety measures so it's down to the importers to check if the required standards are being met, I mentioned earlier about open faced 240v GU10 LED's are dangerous and against the EU directive but some people buy them from China at their own risk I have never supplied these in my working life as I know they do not meet the standards. That is not the fault of LED technology it is the fault of the importer, if they didn't buy them then they wouldn't make them.All in all a complete load of cobblers, a 5-7w LED can replace a 50w halogen, it will out last it many many times over. It won't give you cancer as it's not emitting bad chemicals just light and because of lower UV light output from LED's they don't attracts insects like other lamps do.America, they are scared of LED's but walk around with guns.......Tossers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 [quote user="Théière"]Sadly written back in 2008 and technology has moved on considerably since.[/quote]And if you read more of the guys blog by Nov 2013 the guy was installing them himself and had problems with the dimmer he was using for his home automation system. Not the sort of thing the majority of people have.The only two things I can answer of, not being so light technically orientated, is that if they were unsafe why do aircraft now use them for internal lighting? Also they come in a whole range of light 'temperatures' so you can have them at the same temperature as sunlight (the blogger clearly didn't understand that we are talking about the wavelength of the light) or you can buy them at a different temperature that allows them to emit that 'orange glow' that the blogger and others seem to like.The other thing is what is more natural, sunlight or the orange glow that the old lamps gave off?The other thing I noticed with the guy’s blog, which is quite correct, is that there are problems with CFL's, or what we call florescent low energy bulbs, regarding size. For instance we have light fittings with a glass tube that goes over a candle lamp style bulb. Can't use those CFL versions because of the base being so big the glass sleeve won't fit. The LED ones on the other hand work a treat. I have also found that the CFL's I do have installed get quite hot at the base. The glass is not hot but the base is where as the LED bulbs get a little warm but not hot and can be easily replaced immediately after turning on off with bare hands.At the end of the day it is up to individuals although I can understand why the EU wants to go down this route because it does save a lot of electricity and for the end user money. If people want to stockpile old style lamps well that's up to them but I would hardly call it a stupid ruling just like I wouldn't the limit on vacuum cleaner power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Sorry Q, I can only take so much of that guys negativity in one go. Yes because there isn't a resistive load (filament) then dimming requires more clever thought and that is improving with time, ac driven LED's are more controllable. I met a clever man who worked out how to do this but he couldn't get the industry interested so went off and did something else.As to that guys buzzing incandescent's why he should seek out an electronics engineer to get that sorted, yes louder with the LED's because they are not resistive loads which act as dampening, I would hazard a guess the actual cause of this was the home automation equipment he was struggling to get LED's to work with. That is a great piece of blogging, complain LED's put noise down the AC and then install home automation and probably wifi conected down the mains and guess what he is adding the very mains noise he is complaining about, what a turd.CFL's get hot because its a heater which excites the gas in the tube producing light, LED's produce light but at a much more efficient level so requiring lower power to achieve the same thing.I am sure these naysayers won't mind having another wind farm or some other form (nuclear) power stations built near them just so we can satisfy the demand for crappy out of date power hungry devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 LED dimmer modules that can replace the existing ones so you keep the plate and knob can be bought online for under £6 (single unit). So couple that with you only having to change fittings if you want to use fluorescent bulbs, the price of a LED bulb against lifespan against halogen bulbs and the electricity/money you save it is a bit of a no brainer really.However there is another issue and that is the poor pensioners. They probably have a couple of 100W bulbs with a dimmer in their lounge and all of a sudden they find they can't buy the bulbs anymore and have to have these fluorescent ones. Now if memory serves I believe in the UK they gave 'starter packs' to the OAP's with four or five lamps in a box (no dimmer switch). Firstly they might be that old they can't get up a step ladder to change the bulbs, four or five is not really enough in the average house and they will need to buy a new dimmer switch and then pay for an electrician to fit it (and the lamps) who no doubt will, in their eyes, rip them off.Now then the irony of this is that looking on Screwfix (picked at random as it was the first to come up) a new module for dimming LED's in under £6 yet a cheap white plastic dimmer for fluorescent lamps is just under £26 because they don't sell modules but given it is a cheap white plastic one it does make you wonder. Of course if you take the highest possible price of dimers and LED's then confuse people about having to change light fittings neglecting or hiding somewhere in the text that it only applies to fluorescent bulbs it just stirs people up even more about the EU. In short people like the Mail, Sun, Mirror and Express writers who write this stuff are a typical example of journalism at its worse. [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 After typing my last post I wondered how many house fires have been caused in the UK by LED lights, answer, well I can't find any. What I did find is LED Christmas tree lights but the cause was not the lights but the transformer.I also tried to google if any house insurance companies have not paid out because a fire was started by an LED lamp, downlight or Christmas tree lights and the couldn't find any. I am sure if there really was a massive problem like the chap in the American blog says there is then you would be able to find some data.There have been fires in America caused by LED down lights but I am wondering if the voltage has something to do with it 110V 60hz (yet aircraft use 110V 3 phase at 400hz and they work OK on them) although I can't see it myself. Alternatively perhaps the requirement of fire retardant ceiling insulation and materials is not as high as the UK or perhaps there isn't any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 With dimmers for LED's look for trailing edge varieties, normal incandescent dimmer are leading edge. The leading edge give a power surge on start up that LED's don't like, just because they say on the packet it can doesn't mean you should, look for the explanation of what type of dimmer it is, the sellers maybe trying to sell off the old stock knowing they won't be in service for long. I have been showered in molten glass from a halogen that exploded, it burnt a mark into the dining room table they get dangerously hot so will be more risky.Down lighters penetrate the ceiling voids, that is why there are fire rated down lighters, not because the down lights catch fire but if there is a fire the holes supply air to the fire allowing it to spread far quicker. I saw a fire brigade setup video and it was a bit shocking how quickly the fire got hold with down lighters supplying the draft. Fire rated versions have a spring mechanism in the back which closes off the holes for cooling the halogens. Newer LED's are solid, no holes constructions because they dissipate the slight heat through the aluminium frame so even safer although better not to penetrate the ceiling void at all which is easier with LED now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I will to convert my UK rental property next time there is a cahneg of tenants, in the meantime I want to convert my pied à terre which is a converted wooden building which was previously my office and workshop. It gets plenty of daylight the bulk of it beind a wooden conservatory but at night the French plafonniers with CFL lamps are rubbish, now I realise just how bad they really are.The ceiling is suspended ceiling tiles, white vinyl coated moisture proof ones from France, the centre of the conservatory roof is a round plate which ties in all the rafters, it is currently hidden by a round stainless steel plafonnier (what are they called in English) probably 12" diameter, it looks the part and hides the construction, does anyone know of an multi LED equivalent, maybe one with a very wide lighting angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yes Chancer you can get a panel one to replace one or more of the tiles 600mm x 600mm 40w LED or thereabouts for £60or the fittings that are thin you could fit into your panel 18w around 225mm dia or square, just testing the 12w versions that arrived the other day. If you are not so worried about fashion the "Luna" bulkheads 16-18w work well to and no ceiling penetration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Leading edge, rising edge, cutting edge falling off the edge of a cliff it's all double dutch to me.I just read the packet and if it says 'For LED' thats good enough for me.So what we are saying in simplistic terms is all down lighters should have a solid 'top' to them, down lighters don't cause the fire something else does and if you don't have solid 'tops' to it allows air in to supply the fire?Given thats the case why are about only 1% of these down lighters sold in France have a 'top' to them? Indeed you have to go looking specifically for ones with 'tops' and like the UK they are not cheap.Seems to me if you have used the right material (fire retardant or fire proof) to insulate your roof void it is not a problem especially as LED's let of little or no heat. If you don't do the job properly then it does not matter what lamp bulb you use, it's the hole that counts.If this is true then I am really worried for Fred because he seems to be of the opinion from the incorrect information he has read that he is safe with his halogen lamp bulbs when in fact it makes no difference. I just hope he has the right insulation where he has these downlighters fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yes Q, just trying to pass on information, whether people take that on board is of course up to them but just like any other product (multifoil insulation to name but one it says equivalent to 200mm of rock wool etc but they are not).The reason they are not cheap but are getting that way is there is a bi metallic spring and mechanism to operate at high temperature. Yes fires in France attributed to downlighters, as with most things they will issue a law about it in 10 years time staled off for a year whilst a friend of the president tries to get his company to make them, blah blah.There are fire hoods you can fit above the lights but they are fiddly and also cause more premature halogen failures because they hold in the heat [blink] Ising rockwool should help with fire retarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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