woolybanana Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 If the BBC is to be believed NHS professionals are now going to ask patients what their sexual orientation is, in order to collect statistics.Surely this is an unpardonable intrusion into a patient's privacy, even if the LGBT community say it is being done to ensure they are not being discriminated against.Or is this the New Society that so many want, including Mr Corbyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 The obvious answer to the question is "Give us a kiss and I'll tell you"I'm not sure how knowing someone's sexual orientation can ensure they are not discriminated against.Is it that certain people may be offended if they are offered treatment or advice given on the assumption that they are "straight"?Not that I can think of any particular examples ......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 It's been asked as part of standard assessments for some time. Sounds like someone's just found out and decided to go into indignant mode. We had some patients who volunteered to be interviewed by students for their exam. The patients were also involved in the assessment of the students. One patient was a woman with MS who was completely wheelchair bound. They all asked her about her home situation and she told them she lived with her partner. All of the students assumed incorrectly that her partner was of the opposite sex and continued to ask what 'he' did and how much 'he' did around the house. Not every person in that situation would be happy then having to correct the interviewer and explain that they were gay. When the students did find out they were also embarrassed..(and lost marks of their assessments). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 All of the students assumed incorrectly that her partner was of the opposite sex How did that affect the medical care she was given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 [quote user="NormanH"] All of the students assumed incorrectly that her partner was of the opposite sex How did that affect the medical care she was given?[/quote]It may or may not have affected the medical care, but may have affected her respect for the (student) doctors. As I mentioned above:certain people may be offended if they are offered treatment or advice given on the assumption that they are "straight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Medical staff are there to provide medical care not to pander to the fashion for taking offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 As student occupational therapists their job is to assess their patient or clients and work out an intervention or program that enables them to return and function in their home, work and social environment. They can't do that without getting a good understanding of that person, and their sexuality is an important part of that. Medical invention is rarely just about medication or other physical interventions. Nursing, social care, physio etc. Are all part of hospital interventions these days and all work in conjunction with medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 My understanding was not that Doctors would ask every patient but that if would just be information, like all the other information, that makes up patient information. Probably collected in the same way at the first admission to hospital, and just as with ethnicity, there would be a 'rather not say' option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 [quote user="NormanH"]Medical staff are there to provide medical care not to pander to the fashion for taking offence.[/quote]They are also there to deal with patients in a considerate and sympathetic manner.You could just as well say that bureaucrats are there to process paperwork, not to explain or offer advice on how to present it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Not quite a valid parallel.The Doctor who received me in Emergency when I had a strangulated hernia didn't need to know if the young woman with me was my grand- daughter, my neighbour or my lover, to do his job of diagnosing my problem; but when I applied to re-new my carte de séjour it was helpful for the receptionist to check over my dossier to see that it was complete.On the other hand she didn't need to know who the French lady of a 'certain age' accompanying me was, and I don't care what she assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I actually read the article and it is not about Doctors asking people their sexual orientation. It is about ensuring sexuality is included in all the background information that is kept on patients medical records. The article specifically mentions healthcare professionals, not Doctors. It is no more or less controversial than asking someone to say what their ethnic origin is. I do remember a case from my health service days when it did matter. A patient was admitted with a whole load of complex medical problems and the consultant couldn't work out what it was. The patient was seriously unwell and one of the team questioned whether he may have AIDS. The consultant was adamant that there was no way this man had AIDS as he wasn't a homosexual or a drug user and he certainly wasn't going to mention it to him as it was a ridiculous idea. Fortunately the junior doctor was less blinkered, asked the patient a few pertinent questions and yes, he was a homosexual and turned out to be HIV positive but was too embarrassed to mention this to the oh so heterosexual consultant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Trouble is that it is all getting too confusing for my little brain. Children brought up gender neutral, some wanting to be male one day, female another then male again.We know someone , let's call him Bertie, married with kids. Years later a divorce, and then we bump into him, he is in a wig and dress and to call her Susie.... Never has had the full op just hormones, but now has a girlfriend, so is that a gay relationship?As I said I get very confused, especially as she doesn't want to relinquish the last bastion of manhood!For medical things though it could all be very important I suppose!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 [quote user="lindal1000"]My understanding was not that Doctors would ask every patient but that if would just be information, like all the other information, that makes up patient information. Probably collected in the same way at the first admission to hospital, and just as with ethnicity, there would be a 'rather not say' option.[/quote]From the Guardian:NHS England has issued a new standard requiring staff to “record sexual orientation at every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists”.The options are heterosexual or straight, gay or lesbian, bisexual, other, and don’t know or not sure. Other can include asexual or “queer”, a term the NHS says defines “a complex set of sexual behaviours and desires, or to make a statement against categories such as lesbian, gay, bisexual or straight”. If patients decline to answer that will also be recorded.This is all the more shocking for the fact that it would be illegal in France:I. - Il est interdit de collecter ou de traiter des données à caractère personnel qui font apparaître, directement ou indirectement, les origines raciales ou ethniques, les opinions politiques, philosophiques ou religieuses ou l'appartenance syndicale des personnes, ou qui sont relatives à la santé ou à la vie sexuelle de celles-ci.https://www.cnil.fr/fr/loi-78-17-du-6-janvier-1978-modifieeThis came about after the misuse of such lists under the Occupation. Such a register makes it easier to target certain groups, and send them off to the Camps for example.The poor old UK takes another step towards Totalitarianism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Personally, if the sexuality affects the medical and / or social care, the question NEEDS to be asked, but if not, why gather more statistics for the sake of it. IMHO most people (and I have met most types in my life as part of my job, or my various interests) were perfectly happy about what they were and were perfectly happy to talk about it. And on the bottom line, your sexuality, like your gender or religion, should NOT determine the type of care or other that you receive, unless one of them impacts on the type of care you need (eg like not serving pork to certain religions). However, we seem not to live in a world anymore where people trust each other, are happy to live with the differences in the human being, and where political correctness has run riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 [quote user="lindal1000"]My understanding was not that Doctors would ask every patient but that if would just be information, like all the other information, that makes up patient information. Probably collected in the same way at the first admission to hospital, and just as with ethnicity, there would be a 'rather not say' option.[/quote]From the Guardian:NHS England has issued a new standard requiring staff to “record sexual orientation at every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists”.The options are heterosexual or straight, gay or lesbian, bisexual, other, and don’t know or not sure. Other can include asexual or “queer”, a term the NHS says defines “a complex set of sexual behaviours and desires, or to make a statement against categories such as lesbian, gay, bisexual or straight”. If patients decline to answer that will also be recorded.This is all the more shocking for the fact that it would be illegal in France:I. - Il est interdit de collecter ou de traiter des données à caractère personnel qui font apparaître, directement ou indirectement, les origines raciales ou ethniques, les opinions politiques, philosophiques ou religieuses ou l'appartenance syndicale des personnes, ou qui sont relatives à la santé ou à la vie sexuelle de celles-ci.https://www.cnil.fr/fr/loi-78-17-du-6-janvier-1978-modifieeThis came about after the misuse of such lists under the Occupation. Such a register makes it easier to target certain groups, and send them off to the Camps for example.The poor old UK takes another step towards Totalitarianism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 W/B wrote,Surely this is an unpardonable intrusion into a patient's privacy, even if the LGBT community say it is being done to ensure they are not being discriminated against. Why do you feel so strongly about this big boy ? not got anything to hide have you ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 From the Guardian:NHS England has issued a new standard requiring staff to “record sexual orientation at every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists”.I could have some fun with this, sounds like time to visit my GP after all these years and put on a big show of indignation especially if the poor sods have to ask the question every time until it is answered, they will find a way to avoid confrontation every visist with wind up merchants like me. I already do it in France when asked for my date and place of birth for things that have absolutely no need of it, I am polite and ask them why they need the info, the response is always "because I have this box to fill in" so I stick to my guns and say if you can tell me why you need this I will happily tell you, a minority are smart enough to make the problem go away and move on (they probably fill the boxes out later) the others become incapacitated so most of my records show me being born on la lune in 1600, even at the gendarmerie I am recorded as that except for one smart guy who gave me a plausible reason for giving him the info, it was untrue but he thought on his feet and it sounded plausible, top marks to him!! The subject reminds me of our family GP from at least 15 years before I was born, a real old school gentleman, I went to him in my 20's with a large and painfull boil on my Hampton and with straight face he said to me "not been putting it anywhere queer have we old chap?" [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Idun wrote,We know someone , let's call him Bertie, married with kids. Years later a divorce, and then we bump into him, he is in a wig and dress and to call her Susie.... Never has had the full op just hormones, but now has a girlfriend, so is that a gay relationship? 'Bertie', is clearly mentally ill, you are either male or female, do not go along with his insanity or humour him, if he wants to be called 'Susie' then fine, but there is no need for you to assist in his mental delusion. In fact its cruel to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Susie is not mentally ill, now looks far more feminine than a few years ago and runs a successful business and seems happy and actually seems to be very very happy with their new 'Belle'. The whole thing confusing me, is my problem not theirs. My brain not quite getting my head round the complexities of it all. I think if Susie had fallen for a man, I would not have been confused. Still, why this, ebaynut........ I believe that some people are just 'comme ca' and nature sometimes literally cocks things up with regards to gender! And do your views include gay people too, just wondering if you believe they are mentally ill too? In truth it is about time that there is the liberty to love who one wants or change into the body a person feels they should have been in the first place. No matter how confused I get about it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Idun wrote,And do your views include gay people too, just wondering if you believe they are mentally ill too? No, if they prefer members of their own sex that is their choice. Gay people are not mentally ill, its their choice. However there are only two genders male and Female, anything else is insane.Post edited by moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Try telling that to people who are born with a mixture of male and female sexual organs. The cyclist Robert Millar returned to commentating this year as Phillipa York and very knowledgeable she was too.Chancer I can guarantee that if you tried that approach in the UK no one would care. They've got far more to do than engage in a battle about whether you want to fill in a form or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I thought that was what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 NormanH write:All of the students assumed incorrectly that her partner was of the opposite sex How did that affect the medical care she was given?Just as a for instance, if (as an MS sufferer) it was deemed that she might need some physical assistance in say getting out of bed, it might well be deemed (not necessarily correctly) that a man would have the strength to lift her, whereas a woman would be less likely (but not necessarily) to be able to do so. Knowing that the partner was female could well lead to an additional line of questioning to establish the levels of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 And so any nursing assistance given would have to be a male nurse? A son could help but not a daughter? You see it isn't a question of the relationship between the two people (sexuality) it is one of physical strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 It's a whole lot more than that and sexuality is just a part of it..but in order to work with someone as a therapist you have to build up a therapeutic relationship with them, and they have to trust you. If you are oblivious to what is an important part of their life then that becomes more difficult. There are no rules with regard to gender of those providing nursing care and those receiving it, except to say that the way in which it is provided needs to be sensitive to that person's wishes and beliefs. The more you know the more sensitive you can be. It also includes being sensitive to the fact that some patients are not comfortable about talking about any aspect of their personal life with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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