Snowflakes

[alittlebitfrench]

There was an almighty storm yesterday in Val Du Loire. Our wheelie bin blew over. I was dead scared. But it does not surprise me that there were power cuts. It was quite bad.

Going back to the snow driving problem, it is down to car and tyres. Of course you still require some skill to drive in snow but even the best of drivers won't stand a chance on big fat summer tyres.

What I don't understand is why people buy large 4x4 SUV's when they are useless in snow. What is the point ?

Surely you buy these cars to go 'anywhere' any time of the year.

To make the point. Look at the type of cars ski instructors drive. They don't drive 4x4 or glitzy BMW"s. They drive tiny cheap old bangers on snow tyres to commute to work. And yes, most do commute to work. They don't live in the resorts. They live 20-40 km's away. But even in the hardest of conditions, they still get to work.

Of course the snowflake generation would not be seen dead driving such cars which is why the UK comes to a grinding halt in winter.

If I lived in the UK, I would buy a set of chains and keep them in the car just in case. If I did a reasonable commute, I would definitely put snow tyres on in the winter.

Maybe it should be made compulsory !!!

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="Théière"]"Nationwide at least 120,000 homes had power cuts on Monday, most of them in the Loire Valley."

Glad I came back to the UK

[/quote]

After reading about the number of homes without power in the Midlands I’m glad I live in a France. It’s easy to make smug comments isn’t it.

[Chancer]

[quote user="richard51"]I hope your tyres had more than 3mm of tread.[/quote]

 

Collectively.

[YCCMB]

Winter tyres aren't compulsory in the UK. I understand they should be fitted only when the temperature falls below 7degrees. In SE England You'd be taking them on and off every few days through the winter, at best. Today its forecast to be 3 degrees, tomorrow 8, and by early next week 10. With no snow. It snowed on Sunday. That was pretty much it.

Chains are not to be used when there's no actual snow on the roads. So, my 16 mile journey to see my son on Sunday (hypothetically, as I didn't go nor did I plan to) would have involved me setting off in the rain and arriving at his place in snow. In fact, we've had no snow here but if we'd travelled 15 miles in almost any direction we would have ended up in several cm of the stuff. When to fit chains in that situation? Easy. Not at all. That's the thing about snow here in SE England. You'd need to be mentally deficient to spend out the money for snow tyres or chains unless you derived sort of masochistic pleasure from changing tyres or fitting chains every 200 metres in your journey. Yes, that means there's a certain amount of chaos on the roads. Pretty much the same chaos I've seen in reports of weather across Europe in the last few days.

I doubt that the situation would be solved, either, by everyone changing their cars to become more like alpine ski instructors. It's a bit like buying a transit van on the off chance that you might have to deliver a sofa sometime in the next 20 years.

[alittlebitfrench]

LOL

Snow tyres don't work like that. You are not going die if you drive in higher temperatures. It just means that in snow or icy conditions you won't look like a complete tw&t and end up on sky news or social media with someone filming you trying to get out of your drive or rolling backwards down your little cul de sac on the way to buy a lottery ticket.

But tell me, why are all the schools closed ? Like I said, when I was young my dad would drive me to school in his Vauxhall chevette (not really cutting edge car tech compared to an Audi Q8) in much more snow than you have now. If he could not drive....I walked 2 miles. W&nker.

The UK has become a nation of snowflakes. Bunch of wimps.

Seriously, get a grip. Go to school.

And, you can't build snowmen properly anymore.

[YCCMB]

No closed schools in the SE..much to the disillusionment of most children. That's oop north, where it's been minus 15 overnight.

If I need to buy a lottery ticket, which I haven't done since about 15 years ago ( the first ticket didn't win, so I stopped) then our local shop sells them and I could crawl there on my hands and knees in a blizzard in under 2 minutes.

I've taught many dozens of students over they years from countries where snow is quite a normal thing. I always found it odd that, in particular, several of my former students from Russia refused to drive in the snow in the UK. apparently it was dangerous. Maybe that's the root of the problem..we have special, dangerous snow here?

[alittlebitfrench]

No, you have special people trying to drive in snow. Snow is snow. Leaves are leaves.

I reckon if Mr Putin post Brexit wanted to invade the UK and claim London to be his, all he would need is a snow cannon and some leaves.

Sprinkle the SE of the UK in 1cm of snow and cripple the rail network with some leaves at Clapham junction. Walk straight into number 10 and the country is his. Just make sure the lottery machines are working and ITV is broadcasting I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out of Here jungle. No one would notice. Not even the queen.

[richard51]

Whilst driving down to Coventry on Sunday sons girlfriend from Estonia explained that UK snow was considered "bad" snow there as it was wet and nasty compared to the dry and fluffy variety. I can go with that.

[alittlebitfrench]

I think she was talking about skiing.

[richard51]

No she was not - though probably similar principle, Caveat is that I know very little about skiing.

Was there not a joke made some time ago when trains were cancelled because it was the wrong type of snow rather than the excuse of leaves on the line?

[YCCMB]

...that's after he invades France in a lunch-hour in mid August. Nobody would even notice until early September.

[andyh4]

ALBF

Snow is not just snow. There are certainly different types of snow which should be obvious to anyone with functioning eyes who should spot the difference between that fine granular stuff and big wet flakes fluttering down from the sky. I believe that even the railways have been know to blame problems on the wrong type of snow.

EDIT: Richard beat me to that snippet.

And this morning the radio news was reporting chaos on the A16 due to snow.

IT is perhaps reasonable that general weather conditions also play a part. Wet heavy snow (snow at around zero degrees) will melt under the pressure of a car tyre - melting point of ice is dependent on pressure and a car's weight on snow will exert some pressure. Having melted if the temperature is below zero (just) it can then re-freeze leaving an ice layer as a base to any further snow that falls. At lower temperatures and with perhaps less wet snow the pressure is not sufficient to melt the snow and create an ice layer.

As to winter tyres (I dislike the description snow tyres because this is often confused with studded tyres), my recollection of ADAC tests on such tyres showed that the best would reduce your stopping distance by up to 45% in snow and ice but were 5% worse in stopping distance above 7 degrees (I cannot remember the test temperature).

[Chancer]

Walk straight into number 10 and the country is his. Just make sure the lottery machines are working and ITV is broadcasting I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out of Here jungle. No one would notice. Not even the queen.

Love it [:D]

 

I have a similar tale about France and the Blitzkrieg through the Ardennes between 12.00 and 14.00 on a pont week-end, probably totally inaccurate but who cares, the strategy certainly works for all the braconniers in these parts, they can even do it midweek, peel the side off a Netto store bang in the middle of a should be busy but deserted centre commerciale, break into the cash office take all the money, steal all the fags and then do their own shopping, probably sitting down to apéros and a 30 minute lunch as well [:D]

 

Editted, I see that Betty is of a similar mindset!

[Théière]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"] You'd need to be mentally deficient to spend out the money for snow tyres[/quote]

That'll be me then. [:-))]

I was just waiting for my current set of tyres to wear out before I purchase my new winter ones which I drive on all year. Excellent wet grip usually and tyre rubber hardens so I would rather wear them out and have a fresh set than store them and find they are not any good.

[Théière]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]

What I don't understand is why people buy large 4x4 SUV's when they are useless in snow. What is the point ?

EGO, status and tiny penis [:D]

Surely you buy these cars to go 'anywhere' any time of the year.

Yes if you take off the summer road tyres and fit what is needed for winter.

They did a test in the Birminghm snow dome between a 4x4 on standard tyres and a 2 wheel drive with snow tyres. guess who one?

https://youtu.be/mfuE00qdhLA

If I lived in the UK, I would buy a set of chains and keep them in the car just in case. If I did a reasonable commute, I would definitely put snow tyres on in the winter.

Maybe it should be made compulsory !!![/quote]

Horrible things to drive on, horrible things to fit when its bad weather.  The newer socks or cable ties will do the same and wont rip the wings off if they come adrift.

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]...that's after he invades France in a lunch-hour in mid August. Nobody would even notice until early September.[/quote]

More like Toussaint before they notice. LOL.

If I was French I would be more worried about teee Germans. They keep pushing for an EU army and if I was French I would be a 'tad' worried why they want an army so much. The last three times Germany had an army they invaded France.

Ahh...the European dream.

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="You can call me Betty"] You'd need to be mentally deficient to spend out the money for snow tyres[/quote]

That'll be me then. [:-))]

I was just waiting for my current set of tyres to wear out before I purchase my new winter ones which I drive on all year. Excellent wet grip usually and tyre rubber hardens so I would rather wear them out and have a fresh set than store them and find they are not any good.

[/quote]

I lived in Germany for most of my working life and always used winter rated tyres during the winter. Later it became law. I would not have driven with them all year round because in the wet they tended to have much less grip than summer tyres. I cannot see the point of investing in tyres that give you more grip in cold conditions then continuing to use them when they are less efficient than summer tyres.

[Théière]

[quote user="BritinBretagne"]

I lived in Germany for most of my working life and always used winter rated tyres during the winter. Later it became law. I would not have driven with them all year round because in the wet they tended to have much less grip than summer tyres. I cannot see the point of investing in tyres that give you more grip in cold conditions then continuing to use them when they are less efficient than summer tyres.[/quote]

The softer rubber blocks of tread do move around more than summer tyres so slightly more wear I believe but I didn't notice a drastic reduction in grip during the summer. Bearing in mind it's a slow old diesel with a barely noticeable power band [:)] The slide around roundabouts was always at a steady level rather than some summer tyres which grip to a point then let go in a spectacular way.  Wet grip was always good. ("B" EU rated tyre for wet grip)  If I felt any other way I would have bought some more rims and shod them with summer. I don't push it much these days.

[BritinBretagne]

I’m talking from experience of using several different cars over the years. I always had two sets of wheels, alloys with summer tyres and steel rims with narrower winter wheels. I still have the wintervwheels for my Golf but would only use them if I knew I was heading into the snow.

Despite what alittlebit says, the best car I had by far on snow was a Land Rover Discovery with M+S tyres. It pulled quite a few stuck cars out of ski resort car parks. And a few out of Portuguese sand dunes as well.

Rear wheel drive is the big no, no and that’s where many German Mercedes and BMW owners become unstuck.

[richard51]

Shoot me down, but this was my logic for spending £240 pounds last weekend.

Kia Ceed 1.6 diesel 13 reg. Car has done 33,000 miles.

Tyres had done 33,000 miles on a 4 yr old car ( 1,500 miles in first 2 years when I bought it.

Down to around 3mm all round.

Finance and safety a priority ( I'm over 50 yrs old - work it out!!!!!)

We use cheaper tyre outlet - though specialist. Cheapest was £40 then seems to jump up to around £60 then beyond..

Read the size on old tyres and looked for similar sizes. Googled what numbers on tyre meant and got the equivalent and understood what numbers meant - phone call to depot didn't help though!!

Decided to go for £60 level rather than cheap ones (was that right?).

Decided overall to go for the standard (they call it performance) tyre compared to the other similar priced tyres with supposed better performance in their description in wet (assume that to mean winter) conditions The performance figures based on their A to E ratings were better overall (Goodyear).

Didn't see tyres listed for specific winter conditions but would not have swayed me as they were wanted for all year round (next couple of years + hopefully) and complying with speed, weight etc.

Did pay extra £20 for wheel alignment correction to be made after "free" inspection.

NB1 daughter, who is strapped for finance (31 yr old qualified nurse in NHS!!!!!) said that she was persuaded to go for "winter tyres" at the same place - she doesn't ask for my opinion!!!!! Decision based on cost and presumably safety.

NB2 daughter is rather an aggressive driver in my honest opinion.

edit Alloys to me only represent extra cost and being easier to mess up when hitting the curb (not that I ever do that)

edit just specifically looked for winter tyres and performance was G (ie bl++dy awful) for both fuel consumption and wet conditions.

https://www.f1autocentres.co.uk/car-tyres/results

[Théière]

It's a good question Richard, my local chap tries to sell me Pirelli's (I feel a higher profit margin on brand name)  but they were E in the wet, My cheepo's were B and quieter. Hopefully this EU labeling does actually mean something but after VW and other diesel fiasco's only time will tell.  The fuel consumption will be higher on a soft compound winter tyre, just something to put up with but how you drive probably makes up for more than anything else. (except Nokian it seems which are the best)

BritinBretagne, I normally have two sets of rims but skimped on the last car, I do have two low use Peugeot van tyres (continental winter contact) if anyone's interested.  I was picky on my choice of tyres but there were some cheap ones with a high spec so I gave them a go. If I had a performance car I would be more worried. I am more worried if you were using narrower wheels than the car manual suggests?  Some nosey insurer would be very happy if they wriggle out of a claim.

[BritinBretagne]

The tyres used have always been within the manufacturers’ specifications. The winter wheels that I have now which use completely different sized tyres to the summer wheels, smaller diameter rims, different profile and narrower, were supplied by VW when I bought the car new. No problems would occur with my insurance company. The ‘narrower’ tyres serve two functions, they grip icy roads better than wider tyres and provide much more room under the wheel arches when fitting and using snow chains.

[Théière]

Totally agree BinB, used the same when we used to go hill climbing many many moons ago [:)]

It's just my Uncle used an out of spec tyre on his Jag years ago (max speed rating) he had an accident at 30mph and the insurers wriggled out of that. I look in the owners manual for alternatives which thankfully European makes often spec with a winter wheel option.

[BritinBretagne]

In Germany cars shod with winter tyres are limited to 160 mph on appropriate sections of the Autobahn. It wasn’t always like that. When I bought my winter wheels for a diesel estate the seller asked what speed rating I wanted. I pointed out that I was not going to be exceeding 130 kmh during the periods when I was using the winter wheels so suggested that a speed rating covering 150-160 kmh, P, Q, would be fine. We checked on the tyres that we had selected and they were rated W, 270 kmh. A fair bit of room for error. Those tyres while excellent in the cold and on snow were worrying in mild damp conditions, the front wheels would spin when accelerating reasonably hard in third and even sometimes fourth gear. Not something that ever happened with the summer tyres.

[Théière]

The only way the Scenic could get to 160 is off Beachy Head! [:D]

The tread blocks on winter tyres are designed to flex a lot, it helps with the self clearing aspect of the tread allowing it to grip more in colder wet/slush/snow and mud. Conversely they move and break traction when accelerating compared to the harder rubber trad blocks of summer tyres.  I take it into account when I drive in summer and if I bought Nokian I would have a summer set to save them as they are expensive but my ones were cheap but I noticed not available from the same supplier this year, as Richard said poor in the wet tyres E-G rating seem to be almost the norm.  There are of course all season tyres but I haven't tried them for fear they may be worse in winter and worse in summer? Anyone know?