Real politics

[richard51]

1. Is BJ making a push for PM using endemic racism in the UK?

2. Are NEC labour elections causing racism to become a current central theme for labour?

Answers for both are yes to me.

IMHO racism is becoming vile in the so-called democratic west. (OK probably has been for a long time)

NB I believe the current Brexit situation was actually caused by racist views (anti Paki sentiment in my local constituency) - Ironic given that "Pakis" are not from the EU.

Perhaps racism is driving politics rather than the social and humanitarian issues facing us.

Millionaires/billionaires are winning. Middle UK will suffer and the poor will remain in the same boat!!!

As a teacher would say - discuss. I fail to see though how non-millionaires plus can justify without being white or rich and racist.

I believe that islamaphobia and antisemitism are modern, racist words for racism. Why distinguish between the two - or perhaps why not give specific words to other racism worldwide eg those non-white or ..........

NB interesting that islamaphobia was underlined in red with the spell check but antisemitism was not!!!!!

We live in a very small world nowadays - yet we are ruled by immigrant, white Americans who mostly have not got passports.The wooden huts scattered throughout southern/central USA that are called churches really are the drivers of such racism.

NB - will smog masks in cities be banned! For security situatons then, yes I agree, Otherwise no. Common sense - not ruled by sheer racist.

How sick.

Nb As an example Niggerphobia is underlined in red

[idun]

Today, I listened to a journalist I often have a lot of time for, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown and she is very much anti the burqa, she finds it neither Muslim or socially acceptable.

I concur.

I find all the 'veils' misogynistic and applaud France for it's laws.

I have recently been to a kine and he had ended up asking a patient to not return.Having to contend with a family member hung over their shoulder as they massaged, and the hijab getting in the way, which could not be removed. The kine was upset and insulted, did the family really think, believe, that they were going to inappropriately touch this woman, or worse rape her if he had seen her hair. Basically, for whatever reason this woman was over chaperoned, AND did not receive the full treatment she required due to the constraints the family required, she required???

Yes Boris, make us all talk about this, we need to.

[richard51]

Idun

Do you have purple hair and talk with barbed tones as on TV interviews?

Dont know the individual situation but any professional will accept the views of the patient. Talking about patients by professional will lead to EXPULSION. Dont you know that? Who is he/she?

[richard51]

Idun

Will you now accept that the Israeli Zionist enterprise is fundamentally racist?

Or is that something that we cannot talk about???

Or even accept???????????????????

[richard51]

Idun

Have you any evidence to suggest that women are forced to wear the Burka.

My believe ( prove me wrong) is that people in the UK wear the burka ( very few btw) because they are very strong women in their own right.

As a Pakistani muslim I am not surprised that your guru can gain publicity by going against the burka. Its not universal throughout islam.

Perhaps BJ will get more votes by humming the Road to Mandalay whilst wearing a Kippa and bemoaning his lack of sexual encounters in a kibbutz in Palestine - ask his sister.

You confirm endemic racism in the UK and indeed the west.

[WJT]

OMG! I don’t have the words to respond to this. Can you imagine if a Jewish person said something similar about Pakistani Muslims as you just did???

I haven’t been on this site for ages and I remember reading similar statements from you Richard51 in the past, but this? .... “Road to Mandalay wearing a Kippa” and “Will you now accept that the Israeli Zionist enterprise is fundamentally racist?” That sounds very extreme to me.

By the way, I am in the camp that I find burkas barbaric and should be banned.

[Théière]

The number of women Muslims happy to wear a head scarf rather than be letterboxes. Are they stating they are a better Muslim than the non letterboxe, that's anti the Koran.

Auothodox Jews who wear a bigger birthday cake hat than the others are better Jews? Also against their teachings?

Thank goodness the Sikh's are more sensible!

[Judith]

If there anything in the Koran (which I believe to Muslims is what the Bible is to Christians) which says women have to be fully covered, I might accept the burkha, however, what I understand it says is the they should be respectable, and it seems, as with RC's, hair should be covered.  Nothing about face etc.  Now in the hot climes of Africa, such enveloping costumes may be useful to keep out sand and heat, but to do it as a religious requirement is beyond acceptability - to me and, to many others too, I believe.

Covering one's face in these days of heightened security is foolish and will, whether we think it should or not, lead to such attacks as we are seeing.

I am with Idun, I fully applaud France's attitude.

Personally, if my religion told me I had to wear something special, to be acceptable to that religion, that is not a religion I could tolerate. 

[richard51]

I believe that Muslims in Pakistan do not wear the burka so easy to disagree with using them.

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

[idun]

Now listen to me.

IF a physiotherapist, cannot get into the proper position to massage because someone is literally right behind them and hung over their shoulder. AND the person they are treating won't remove the way they have done their head covering in order to deal with their  neck too, then they cannot do their job and therefore, not treat properly. 

IT IS NOT THE PROFESSIONAL, who is not playing the game, and I would love for this person to come forward, but they won't, because, as you say, ridiculous PC stuff  will say that they are at fault.

In this heat I have seen women covered from head to foot, in dark colours, not a burqa but a niqab, so their eyes showing, and their other halves, in loose fitting light summery clothes and if these poor women's blood is not boiling, then mine is.

IF I had had the way, I would have swapped their clothes over and seen how the men liked it!

I cannot do anything about any of it, but in this day and age, women are still expected to live like this is horrible. And for those that 'want' to wear this garb, do they really believe that they will be molested if they show their hair.

Remember that this not muslim, it states that women should be modest, and yet, most of the muslim girls around here who do wear the various veils wear more 'slap' than the half covered usual garb of the young. So how is that being modest drawing such attentions to one's made up face???

I don't get it and don't get anyone who thinks that any of this is OK. Hard to put one's head above the parapet these days, as so little appears to be acceptable and one gets jumped upon.

All I can say is good on Boris for doing so and the other politicians who have such courage.

[idun]

[quote user="richard51"]Idun

Have you any evidence to suggest that women are forced to wear the Burka.

My believe ( prove me wrong) is that people in the UK wear the burka ( very few btw) because they are very strong women in their own right.

As a Pakistani muslim I am not surprised that your guru can gain publicity by going against the burka. Its not universal throughout islam.

Perhaps BJ will get more votes by humming the Road to Mandalay whilst wearing a Kippa and bemoaning his lack of sexual encounters in a kibbutz in Palestine - ask his sister.

You confirm endemic racism in the UK and indeed the west.[/quote]

Israel, I have my own views about that, and the israelis act as they do, what with being surrounded by what one could consider 'enemies'. Also, I am disgusted with their recent legislation.

I am not racist, I do not even know what that is, I don't care what colour anyone is, but I know what I expect in our western society and I know misogyny when I see it. And the women, choosing, yes, some will, some always do, after a life time's indoctrination why wouldn't they....... but those that don't, just what can they say or do....... do as they are told, or loose their family???  just brings to mind  those poor young women, mainly women, although there are some young men too, who are forced into arranged marriages

  And then there is  FGM....... what a wonderful world to be a woman. 

And I am supposed to accept. Do you not understand that when parts of society believe that veiling women is the way it should be, then personally, I feel a threat to my freedom.  And the french have it spot on as far as I am concerned.

The only reason I have my freedom to speak out and vote, is because 'b all sy' women in the past have fought to change ideas and laws.

Incidentally, we had a daft film on the tv a couple of nights ago, 'Chaos', and I had just seen on the news what Boris said....... and low and behold, Wesley Snipes was wearing what could be considered a 'niqab' and would you believe he was robbing a bank. My immediate thought was that Boris had it spot on.

[woolybanana]

Richard, what on earth brought on this strange series of outbursts, booze, piles, a row with partner, dog diddle on your leg?

I feel sorry for letter boxes myself, insulted and abused, out there in all weathers, yet faithful to their chosen roles forever.

By the was, the extreme covering of women is not Islamic and is relatively recent in some areas. In my time in the Middle East it was slowly introduced, pushed by extremists such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

Boris is right, if crude; there is a limit as to how far multiculturalism can be pushed. Wearing a full veil, child marriage, killing off female children are aberrations and it is not racist to say so.

[Théière]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Richard, what on earth brought on this strange series of outbursts, booze,

By the was, the extreme covering of women is not Islamic and is relatively recent in some areas. In my time in the Middle East it was slowly introduced, pushed by extremists such as the Muslim Brotherhod[/quote]

And that is a misognyst name for an organisation!

Booze but he a Muslim?

The lady who carried out my last colonoscopy wore a full nagib. Probably the best protection she could get for that role. Nice eyes ?

[andyh4]

Judith wrote:

Personally, if my religion told me I had to wear something special, to be acceptable to that religion, that is not a religion I could tolerate.

Does that include a white dress for your confirmation?

A Sikh turban?

I could go on but won't.

I do however agree with your statement. ANY religion that says what should be worn is unacceptable - which I think probably rules them all out.

[woolybanana]

Bang on the button, Andy.

[mint]

"Apparently", these women are not forced to wear them but choose to do so!  I don't know the ins and outs of it.  I personally would prefer to see people's faces.

They are not in huge numbers and I wouldn't bother to pass a law about it.  If they want to go around, being restricted in their movements, being passed over for jobs and promotions (as I am sure must happen) and want to be uncomfortable and "singled out" and stigmatised, that is their own affair.

I think there is a MUCH bigger scandal than the personal accoutrements of some women and that is how animals for consumption are killed.  It is BARBARIC and it doesn't apply only to the religion we are discussing.  Also that this halal meat thing is all pervasive, for example, in M and S sandwiches, in school meals, etc.  So we are all roped in whether we agree with it or not.  No labels, no knowledge or transparency.....so it's all right then?[6]

[Tancrède]

[quote user="mint"]I think there is a MUCH bigger scandal than the personal accoutrements of some women and that is how animals for consumption are killed.[/quote]I couldn't agree with you more.

Not to mention forced and under-age marriages;  grooming gangs;  hacking at their children's genitals with shards of glass, and the connivance at mutilation as a form of judicial punishment.

Dressing up as a letter-box should really be welcomed as relatively innocuous  -  perhaps even verging on the lighthearted.

[Judith]

[quote user="andyh4"]Judith wrote:

Personally, if my religion told me I had to wear something special, to be acceptable to that religion, that is not a religion I could tolerate.

Does that include a white dress for your confirmation?

A Sikh turban?

I could go on but won't.

I do however agree with your statement. ANY religion that says what should be worn is unacceptable - which I think probably rules them all out.[/quote]

No white dress for me, a different "branch" probably and Sikhs are not only peaceable, their turban does not offend, cover the face, or insult the person wearing it .. it is in fact a practical thing to hold long hair in place, if I remember correctly. 

My Christianity doesn't tell me what to wear, so IMHO neither falls foul of your over-arching ban, nor my moral principles.