Tresco Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I've been trying to follow the news, about expansion of the EU. Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania and Turkey are all candidates. The news reports (in France) all seem to be about Turkey. Jacques Chirac seems to having a bit of a struggle to persuade people that Turkey will come up with the goods. Jack Straw similarly.I can understand the concerns about Turkey, (enormous, poor country, human rights abuses still not got rid of, muslim majority), and i'm very interested in peoples views on these factors, but it may be ten or twenty years before Turkey is accepted as a member. Assuming Turkey eventually meets the requirements for Eu membership, what next?. I'm intrigued by the political and strategic implications of Turkeys geographical location, next to Syria and Iraq. Is this as much of a hot topic in UK?, and what mental geographical/cultural boundaries do people have as to 'where' Europe is/could be?. Mine have shifted somewhat, (but it's a struggle), after the inclusion of Slovakia, Slovenia, Latvia and Lithuania, who are all members now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Not mentioned in the UK, but an article in the International Herald Tribune:http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/14/business/france.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewitts Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Probably not a politically correct reply to this topic, but can someone send me a map showing Turkey as a European country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deby Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Turkey is truly positioned in a very interesting place geographically. Generally it would be considered european as it has an mediterranean coastline and so far the farthest east.Expansion of the EU is a hot potato, where does the expansion stop - Israel, sort of has a Mediteranean coastline too (mind you I think that bit of Israel has been re-drawn?!)I believe the original basic idea was to join countries together in order to enable trade (Coal & Steel) to occur and stop nations warring! i.e. Germany and France!I believe the pot can overflow and become diluted, so the benefits would be lessened, I'm all for free trade and competition but believe that if expansion gets any bigger it will be difficult to manage. I also think that we shouldnt become Fortress Europe either, I think it is possible for us to trade/move around fairly freely but countries need to keep their infrastructure and govern themselves and not by those Eurocrats in Strasbourg/Luxembourg.Just my opinon.Deby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 There is only a tiny bit of Turkey that is in Europe. Byzantium wasn't it? that bit?So no, it isn't even in europe, it would be like, if, for example, Gibralta wasn't british but Morrocan and trying to say that the whole of Morroco suddenly became part of europe. Geographically speaking this doesn't work and how does Israel get to be in certain european things? That doesn't make sense geographically either. At least Chirac and Raffarin have promised the french people a referendum about this. I actually believe that the EU is stretched beyond belief already and for all perhaps new trade agreements can be reached with immediate neighbours, I personally don't want any more full members. And I don't know of anyone here who specifically wants Turkey to join, but seem unbothered about the rest of the other countries mentioned, whereas I don't want any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 My atlas shows on one page, Greece, Bulgaria, and a small part of Turkey, (labelled European Turkey!) which is probably the part you refer to TU. Now here I experienced something of a revelation. The rest of Turkey is enormous, and the population is over 70 million. If Turkey does eventually gain entry it will be the second largest country after Germany. The article Dicksmith mentioned above finishes by asking something like 'What is Europe, and where will it end?' Which is what I had in mind in the original post. At this rate The Russian Federation doesn't look so very far away, and North Africa even more so. Gets me thinking back to Orwells '1984'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 LOL Helen, that will be up to you. But hopefully within five years you should be able to say 'je me debrouille bien'. And better still, you may have someone who conters that by saying that you speak well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 have any of you visited Turkey? It's a beautiful country the people are honest and hard working. It is rich in land and resources. Much anti- Turkish feeling is inbred and comes from your great great grandparents that saw them as a theat. I love Turkey Hotels at £3 a night and kind sensitive people not afraid of hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Yep, visited Turkey and knew plenty of Turkish folk back in London. Agree, lovely people, really nice, now as I barely knew my grandparents, let alone great grandparents, no inbreeding to sway my feelings then, only actual contact. We are talking "people" here not the hierarchy and that is where the problems come from.Turkey hotels, good as they are at £3 (although where you find them these days doesn't bear thinking about !) are not why Turkey will not gain entrance to the EU, nor is it the wonderful people. The first thing the last white paper on new entrants mentioned, once again, was the inhumain treatment of prisoners and deranged people and until even just this has been addressed, there will be no acceptance of Turkey in to the EU.I think someone ought to put an APB on yer Granny, doggo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Chechnya? H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 [quote]Chechnya? H.[/quote]Is that where they found Dog's Granny then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted October 16, 2004 Author Share Posted October 16, 2004 That would be Chienchyna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 [quote]Hello I do not think we need any country which is predominantly islamic entering the eu. It is the road to disaster. Islam is causing enough trouble now, we do not want any more. Most French and Germ...[/quote]I spent some time in Eastern Turkey in the days when the Soviet Union still existed. Turkey as a member of NATO was entrusted with the task of policing the SU's South Western border, and they kept almost million men under arms to do the job. I find it interesting that Turkey as a key member nation of NATO was accepted as practically a Western State (and their human rights record conveniently ignored) at that time and now is viewed as a potentially dangerous source of Islam and (its there in the subtext) nasty smelly migrants who will steal all our jobs. The Turkey I spent time in was a secular state, far from perfect, but with a hard working, easy going and generous population. They made beer - fairly terrible beer, granted, but it contained alcohol and was freely available. Their economic problems were the stuff of textbooks in how not to run an economy. And as for civil liberties.... It strikes me as rather a shame that rather than making attempts to resolve the economic and political issues that currently preclude Turkey's entry to the EU, a fair proportion of the political community seems bent on turning a friendly national truly into an enemy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-R Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 "I do not think we need any country which is predominantly islamic entering the eu. It is the road to disaster. Islam is causing enough trouble now, we do not want any more". DunrunninI think the idea of sepratism of faiths, is the very reason we are in the state we are in at present. The muslims (rightly in some cases) think christains(USA) want to take over the world, Distroy there cultue ect. If by letting an Islamic nation join the E.U. club we can alter this image and help to spread humans rights and democracy east, this would be the greatest thing the E.U. as ever done. The only bar should be economic instablity and human rights issues, some of which could at any rate be taken to the European court once Turkey becomes a full member. Bringing an Islamic nation into the E.U. fold will also be a good foil to American Imperailism in the region. Turkey as more to offer than some on the new Eastern European members and with the right help from the E.U. could be a beacon of a modern Islamic state in these changing times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantouflard Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 As an aside Jeremy Clarkson penned a new name for a french person in yesterdays Sunday Times to quote "cheese eating surrender monkeys" so next time a nice french person gets up your nose you know what to say. So Jezzer now gets his copy by plagiarising Homer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted October 19, 2004 Author Share Posted October 19, 2004 Well, we will probably have many years to discuss this in. I suspect many people in France, Germany, and Austria have the same views as Dunrunnin, as far as Turkey being mainly muslim - even though it is a secular state. I also appreciate how such majority views arise, although I disagree with those views, and particularly the subtext to them, very strongly. tresco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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