Why don't we all start being nice to each other on this forum

[I1]

Why do some people seem to like being unpleasant and critical of/to others on forums. Is it that unlike in face to face communications they are “protected” by anonymity. Is it that they are arrogant and cannot tolerate others passing comment when “they are the expert” or could it be one of many hundreds of other reasons.

(Ignoring the “chit-chat” areas of forums) for a forum to be useful and helpful it needs input from many different people who are prepared to share their opinions, attitudes and experience in a positive way. A forum is not an “ask the expert” panel game where only those who are qualified to degree level in their subject may respond. It works by many people sharing bits of knowledge and experience they have acquired “along the way” in addition to the input from those who are “in the know” on a subject.

There seems to be a trend amongst some participants in this and other forums to become personally critical of people posting helpful snippets, opinions, etc. Some people seem to assume the worst of somebody else, then exaggerate their already unfair opinions and post a response that can be decidedly nasty.

Nasty, rude and critical responses do not help anybody, do not help answer the posted question and add nothing to a thread. However, they do discourage people from participating. When you can add something to a thread somebody has started (e.g. ‘cos you’ve already done it, etc.) why bother to post it if you risk nasty acidic critical responses from others. Why bother to post a question atall when you’ve seen some of the responses posted.

I would suggest a bit of the “I you can’t say something nice they say nothing” might be useful guidance for some people. There are ways of pointing out somebody has said something wrong without being nasty. People do that verbally every day – it’s a “social skill”. Would appeal to everybody to remember these “social skills” when using forums.

[Mpprh]

[quote]Why do some people seem to like being unpleasant and critical of/to others on forums. Is it that unlike in face to face communications they are “protected” by anonymity. Is it that they are arrogant...[/quote]

Hi

I haven't seen any evidence of this. I find this to be a pretty calm sort of forum.

Or have I missed something and you have better info ?

Peter

[I1]

A couple of very quick examples http://www.livingfrance.com/instantforum/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=18&MessageID=44993&TopicPage=3

or http://www.livingfrance.com/instantforum/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=16&MessageID=44182 (just a couple of examples that I've seen and can remember - but there are a fair number more. One of the above a moderator steped in and told people to go debate elsewhere.

[Mpprh]

Hi

I read the first thread.

I don't expect any 2 techies to agree ?

You've found 2 out of 40,000+ threads.

Peter

[Russethouse]

I1, I think you are rather raking up old grievances here, but for future reference if you feel someone has been unnecessarily rude you should contact the moderators.

However a little tolerance on BOTH sides is often the way to a happier forum.

[I1]

Sorry, if you don't agree that's fine. I'm not going to accumulate lists out of 40000 threads. I've seen quite a few and felt it was worth commenting that such behaviour by others is neither necessary nor constructive.

Maybe I didn't express my comments well (as I'm particularly good as such things), but my comments were not intended to be about agreeing (I would not expect people to necessarily agree), but rather to maintain a pleasant manner.

I just referenced two as they were ones I remembered and had seen. I was not trying to make a point that I had seen two nasty comments.

[I1]

I actually don't have any grievances. When people are rude and "nasty" I believe they are saying more about themselves than the people they are posting about. I probably should no have show a thread where one of the "assume the worst" comments was (partially) about me (as an example) as that can lead to people misinterpreting the reasons for my comments.

[Miki]

I couldn't resist and took a butchers, I found a little tiff in the first one (and in that one, I agree with Peter, put 2 experts in a box and 3 differing opinions will come out)

As for the second, a simple storm in an egg cup, absolutely nothing.

I said recently in another thread, all over the world in every household and building, from Buck House to Westmister through Paris to Sydney, there are discussions going on, heated ones, some with terribly strong language, slaps, wallops, blasphemy and people kissing and making up.

The world continues to go around and friendships are formed and also cut away. Me, I guess like others on here, I prefer genuine "old" friends, friends through "history" and not friendships "forced upon me" they rarely last anyway. Although having said all that, I am sure I could be petty amicable with many members on here

A forum such as this, is for debates, discussions, helping and aiding folk and gleaning useful info from others. We also have laughs and some very light moments, just like real life eh? We can be friendly and I do PM (I haven't got a clue what that means but golly, it looks pretty yuppy, Trigger) with a few other members who I do feel, that we have a common interest but don't ask me what it is, I haven't worked that out, yet

So, sorry, I really do get annoyed when anyone comes on here and says lets all get "touchy feely" and let's all go and hug some b----y trees, not my thang but I don't stop others wanting to do the same but, please, don't try to insist that this forum goes that way, cos if it does, I for one, am on me bike and off in to the sunset, down Estoril way............................(is that a song ?)

 

 

[Iceni]

I know the mods will not agree but I think the level of 'helpful' posts has gone down hill as more and more the word of the local chap in the 'dog and duck' is being quoted as an argument againsts posts by some of the members who have been here a very long time and 'been there, done that and got the legal T shirt'.

Things have changed, why am I still here, there is no real alternative as far as I am concerned. I enjoy the jokes, thought provoking posts, comments from TU, Miki,******o, the mods and all the other rockers who have a thick skin and know reality when they see it. I even occasionally understand the posts of 'John not Di'.

I just hope that some of the posts recently regarding what it is really like to live in France will make other posters realise that this is not the land of milk and honey.

This is a forum, you don't have to like me and you have the electronic right to ignore me, so please feel free

[Dick Smith]

Miki - perhaps we should aim them at where touchy feely has taken another place...

[Iceni]

Sorry C o c o, the magic asterisk machine deleted your name, they seemed to think I was using a rude word. Ho Hum

[I1]

I really could not have explained myself very well and it was a bad idea to reply with a couple of examples (but I’m not going to spend ages going through to find others I’ve seen before). It isn’t about me having a grievance (as I would just go elsewhere if I did).

My comments have nothing to do with everybody agreeing with each other. Of course (and thankfully) people disagree – the world would be pretty horrible if everybody agreed with everybody else the entire time.

Some threads/topics are bound to start more heated debate than others, bringing out stronger reactions. Other, more informational threads need not be subject to similar comment.

My comments were about not assuming the worst in people, about not leaping into and informational thread with a nasty and unjustified comment about somebody who has put up some valid information (just because ? well God knows why). It has nothing to do with being “touchy feely” and “hugging trees” (I know what was meant and I would agree that I don’t seek such a forum). An earlier response says it all “We can be friendly” – which to an extent sums up my thoughts. We can disagree and be friendly at the same time, no need for a few to just leap in with nasty critical comments.

It is a minority who seem to make such comments. But if people really like or tolerate others being abusive, arrogant, rude and acidic in replies to informational type posts, that’s fine – as long as people posting know where they stand (and what they can expect from the few).

[letrangere]

There are enough Forums on the Net discussing life in France to satisfy everyone's taste these days, so if the poster doesn't like this one why log on to it?  M

[I1]

True, but what the point I was trying to make was not so much a like/dislike but a general point about being pleasant. People seem to have taken is as a personal criticism. My comments were of a general nature, maybe asking that before people make a irrelevant post that is being unpleasant, they take the opportunity to pause and reflect on why they are doing it and what it will add to the forum.

Although probably a bad example, when people e.g. go on TV and say we must stop crime, they are not suggesting that all viewers are criminals. Similarly, if you have not been the victim of crime, it does not mean that it does not happen (but this is not a personal grievance).

The medium of a Forum is actually ideal for providing the opportunity to reflect before commenting (unlike some other forms of communication).

I do find it quite surprising that, when I raise a suggestion maybe that people be nice rather than nasty, reactions are “No lets not”. When I raised the subject I did not expect such negative comments about what I would have thought was a pretty reasonable suggestion (to be ignored if you don’t agree with it). However as people seem to feel that such things as being polite really don’t matter and we “don’t want things like that here”.

When I raised the post it was a general comment and reflection on some (unnecessary) responses I had seen around the forum (and nothing personal). However, clearly people think that if you consider being polite, etc. worthwhile then go elsewhere . Fine.

[Iceni]

[quote]True, but what the point I was trying to make was not so much a like/dislike but a general point about being pleasant. People seem to have taken is as a personal criticism. My comments were of a gen...[/quote]

I don't think that people are saying 'if you don't like it here go elsewhere'. I think that after the current spate of nastyness by some posters who have gone or seem to be behaving in a slightly better way under a new name, we are all a bit jumpy. I myself tried to help in the way I would some time ago here and got 'Rubbish' from more recent members. Not surprising that some of the oldies are feeling a bit miffed. I  have also had personal posts from what I assume are non members with comments on LF posts.

Stay around, there is room for all here, even if not all the newer members think some of us are relevant

[I1]

Maybe I’m taking the wrong meaning from “so if the poster doesn't like this one why log on to it” or “aim them at where touchy feely has taken another place...” – but it sounded like a “go somewhere else.

I was not aware that there had been “after the current spate of nastyness by some posters” as everybody seemed to be denying there was anything wrong anywhere and that there was no “nastyness” problem. Other responses seemed to be along the “like it or lump it” lines – if you don’t like the nastyness then “why log on to it”.

I am a great believer in forums. Different aspects to forums are useful to different people. In my opinion, one important aspect is that of mutual assistance. Moving or living in a foreign country can be challenging and finding what, when, how, etc. to do things is not always easy. However, different people find different things through different experience. Similarly, different members have different “specialist knowledge”. Even those with specialise knowledge can benefit from other people’s “real world” experiences. Through posting of questions and responses, this knowledge and experience is made available to all. In effect aspects of the forum become a “Knowledge Base”. These types of forum area greatly benefit from a wide user base, which is partly my reason for comment.

[Will]

"before people make a irrelevant post that is being unpleasant, they take the opportunity to pause and reflect on why they are doing it and what it will add to the forum"

Sorry, but I can't think of why anybody would make 'irrelevant' posts here - the forum runs so slowly that I think most of us take care to be constructive before it all times out; anybody just being irrelevant must be a very sad person with time on their hands and should get out more.

'Constructive' seems to be the key word, rather than 'nice'. Even so, there have always been users who didn't find the majority view of real life in France 'nice' enough, and as Dick intimated, they have another forum where they can be 'nice' all day.

There have also always been users (and the same applies to other forums, as well as life outside forums) who are unwilling to accept that others' opinions and experiences are just as valid as their own, and don't understand why something that worked for them a couple of years ago may not be the best solution, now, in another region of France. Is this the sort of person we are talking about? I think we just have to tolerate them or ignore them as we would in real life.

I did compose a similar but better-worded reply earlier but lost it when the kitten decided to jump on the keyboard so sorry if this is a bit blunt.

[Piprob]

Maybe there is space for a "Really Nice" forum. After all, it wasn't too long ago that some organisations were providing employees with a padded room so they could throw crockery about to worlk off stress.

[Georgina]

[quote]Why do some people seem to like being unpleasant and critical of/to others on forums. Is it that unlike in face to face communications they are “protected” by anonymity. Is it that they are arrogant...[/quote]

I would just like to say I completely support your opinions in this 11.  

Georgina

[Val_2]

Mmm...Can see both sides of the coin here. I personally find some people on here more aggressive than the majority and a few,quite nasty but they seem to come and go. It is very difficult to express yourself on a computer and in 99,9% of cases,you wouldn't recognise posters in real life if you spoke to them. Anonimity does hide a lot of frustrations and woes and people do get stressed out,but one thing I do resent is,people saying you are more or less telling lies when you reply truthfully to a question from your own experiences and my goodness, there cannot be one person who has moved to France who is without them. At the end of the day, forums are just a great big melting pot of ideas and answers and you must take it or leave, but don't take it to heart as it isn't meant to be that way.

By the way Miki, last time I went upto a tree I stood in dogs**t. Shan't be doing that again.

[Russethouse]

Its fairly safe to assume that moving to France is not for the lily livered, so its hardly surprising that some questions often get 'strongly worded' answers. I would guess that many of the posters hold strong opinions and are not afraid of expounding them.

I'm afraid some posters do not really explain themselves really well either, often adding an 'if' 'and' or 'but' after they have had a 'skirmish'

Although I agree with Wendy's point that members of any group should be listened to, in practise it is difficult when this forum is free to all and doesn't even require you to subscribe to Living France. Perhaps we should instigate a 'niceness test' along with the T & C ??

[Patf]

I admit that I enjoy following the various verbal battles, nasty or not, which we still have on this Forum. Before the format changed these were much more vitriolic, partly because of the speed of posting, and partly because people could just jump in anywhere in the discussion and cut someone down to size. Talk about clashing of swords and handbags at dawn. Not that I ever joined in -  far too much of a coward. And far too nice! I think it depends what you're used to. My husband and his brothers and father used to have some very noisy arguments sometimes verging on the personal, whereas in my family you didn't raise your voice at all. Pat.

[Teejay]

[quote]Incompatible statements: if the poster doesn't like this [forum] why log on to it? I don't think that people are saying 'if you don't like it here go elsewhere' Members of a group should be lis...[/quote]

Personally I dislike racism in any form but, and here comes the big BUT, I'd rather see the unsavoury nature of racism aired, even on this site, than deleted. For in reality it's not going to go away, just somewhere elsewhere that's all.

OK, perhaps it would make for a nice and friendly site if we were to cleanse them from this forum but would the complete sanitisation of Living France be a true reflection of living in the country itself? Racists exist here aswell. They are lurking in most villages and towns. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. One isn't duty bound to agree with them and several times my husband has spoken out in support of somebody at the bitter end of racist comments.

And when it comes around to vote just make damn sure that they don't get a look in. That's the time to get heavy.

I believe the verb in french for 'to sanitize' is désinfecter. It would be impossible to 'disinfect' this site completely, laudable though it may be, and as most of us are adults on this forum surely we have the right to decide whether to read something offensive and make comment, rather than allow someone else to decide for us.

This posting has been written in good faith and in no way is intended to antagonise or criticize. It expresses an opinion, no more no less.

[Maddie]

Chill out everyone!!!  Life is far too short to allow blood pressures to get raised so much!  Relax, have a glass of your local tipple, reflect on the fact you are:

a.  Fantasically lucky to be here in France,

b. Struggling and kind of hate being here but today the sun is shining, the view is fantastic, the dogs love it and your neighbours are wonderful so you'll put up with it (where I am at the moment)

c. Dreaming about moving to the land of your dreams and hope to be in a. at some point

I, for one, enjoy reading the posts whether I agree or not.  I take a lot of them with a MASSIVE pinch of salt!  It's nice to feel you (I) can express an opinion whatever it is (within reason).  After all, there are a lot of people in the world who aren't able to express any opinions whatsoever!

 

 

[Teejay]

[quote]Chill out everyone!!! Life is far too short to allow blood pressures to get raised so much! Relax, have a glass of your local tipple, reflect on the fact you are: a. Fantasically lucky to be here ...[/quote]

We are nicely chilled already thank you.    

I, for one, am certainly not hot under my collar or anywhere else for that matter as internal walls have come down today in our house and doors and windows remain open to the elements.  Hopefully this forum too, remains open to different opinions.